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[Exophase]

China pretty much manufacture every toy you own and more than likely the gadget you are using to read this.

I looked at this Dell monitor trying to find evidence to prove you wrong when I stumbled across the "made in China" sticker. Well played.

 

[Sphinxter]

because there is NO WAY IN HELL those guys are going to paint a thousand units properly in 4 days time.

Will they paint them by hand ? I would have thought they would use a dipping tank of some kind.

Study the pink picture closely around the stylus holder and battery compartment and you'll see clearly it has been spray painted.

 

[Monk]

Another note, while I feel I should be worried about the further changes in the web browser (I had hoped to get to use Firefox) I honestly doubt any browser they ship it with would be as gimped as the PSP's and likely would do well enough for some portable web access. Still, I am slowly losing interest in the project as certain features become more and more fuzzy when compared to what was originally announced.

I remember being told that Pandora had AMPLE RAM to do anything you'd want to with it - before the amount of RAM was doubled. Why is FireFox not the default browser? Because it uses too much RAM?????

Canada? Turkey? Jesus.

I'm not sure Jesus ever visited Canada. Coincidence, or cause-and-effect? You decide!

The longer it takes, the closer I get to asking for a refund. Not because of the delays. Not because I have changed my mind about the product. And not even because I knew this would happen. I forked over the cash because the product is one of a kind currently and I admire the entrepreneurship of the team. But seriously, hard times make it even harder to sit on this kind of cash for so long. How about an update with a truthful eta? Isn't that for the best?

No, because then droves of people would cancel.

I'm increasingly concerned about the project. They've managed to have so many problems (carefully avoiding any hint of blame) - that I wonder why on EARTH should I expect problems with this device to cease once they've put it in a cardboard box?

It's such a simple issue Michael is just going to do them as we ship them.The factory can do the rest.

If I interpret this correctly, do you mean that for the boards already populated, Michael will be making a manual adjustment (God bless his patience!); and for all future not-yet-populated boards, the factory will be doing the fix right from the start of the manufacture?

Yes. It's just a resistor change.

May I ask, please - are all of the first batch going to have this resistor bodge that gets us speed like 500kB/s? How about the second batch? Is this "500kB/s" now considered to be "full speed" for the Pandora? Is there any danger that the speed is seemingly quite low due to another (or the same?) hardware issue?

For the benefit of other people who are as slow as I am : The gag here is that the boards were manufactured in China.

Don't forget that this saved OpenPandora a pile of cash, as the Chinese PCB manufacturer was LOADS cheaper than the USA company that did the prototyping (the same reasoning behind using the Chinbese case manufacturer that they settled on - because they were unbelievably cheaper than everyone else).

OpenPandora - we won't be making cheap Chinese rubbish - we'll manufacture in America! (unless it's cheaper elsewhere).

 

[Phawx]

These cases are going to be the death of me.

 

[Monk]

MWeston - thanks for the update. It doesn't seem to change much in fact, but I guess it does in emphasis (if only judging by the reaction). I am a bit concerned that the Pandora now feels like a kludge. Paint (possibly!) to overcome flaws in the case/plastics company, and soldered-on resistors to overcome a problem with the PCB. It no longer feels like "the dream machine" but like something pre-repaired before leaving the factory.

ED - many thanks for your ongoing attempts to provide clarity. Life has a way of making communication harder than it should be, but it's also impossible to (truthfully) report "all is good" when it isn't. MWeston's post is very illuminating - but don't put yourself down too much that MW is more up-to-date than you are.

 

[jasay]

China pretty much manufacture every toy you own and more than likely the gadget you are using to read this.

I looked at this Dell monitor trying to find evidence to prove you wrong when I stumbled across the "made in China" sticker. Well played.

Ha! Mine's made in Mexico (also a Dell).

 

[TrashyMG]

I remember being told that Pandora had AMPLE RAM to do anything you'd want to with it - before the amount of RAM was doubled. Why is FireFox not the default browser? Because it uses too much RAM?????

If it's like the Beagleboard, Firefox is a little sluggish seeing it's doesn't seem optimized to the hardware enough. It works and it's usable. But your better off using one of the leaner browsers.

May I ask at please - are all of the first batch going to have this resistor bodge that gets us speed like 500kB/s? How about the second batch? Is this "500kB/s" now considered to be "full speed" for the Pandora? Is there any danger that the speed is seemingly quite low due to another (or the same?) hardware issue?

This confuses me too since all there tests imply they're only testing it on internet downloads.. Hell with my ISP I can't seem to even download over 250kb/s decently.. I would like to see a wireless LAN test from the Pandora to a local machine.

 

[EvilDragon]

Another note, while I feel I should be worried about the further changes in the web browser (I had hoped to get to use Firefox) I honestly doubt any browser they ship it with would be as gimped as the PSP's and likely would do well enough for some portable web access. Still, I am slowly losing interest in the project as certain features become more and more fuzzy when compared to what was originally announced.

I remember being told that Pandora had AMPLE RAM to do anything you'd want to with it - before the amount of RAM was doubled. Why is FireFox not the default browser? Because it uses too much RAM?????

No features that has been announced have been removed. You can do all that we told you from the very beginning.
You can use install it from the Angström Repos if you want (you have about 200MB free on the NAND to install whatever you want).
However, of course FireFox won't run as fast as a mini-browser. Once you load it up it works fine, but loading does take about 20 seconds... yep, FireFox is bloated.
I don't even use it on my desktop machine as I hate the long startup time.

I click on Midori or Arora on my Linux box and it's ready to surf in one second whereas FireFox needs 10 seconds to load.

On the Pandora, Arora loads up in about 5 - 6 seconds and browses without any rendering or speed issues.
Doesn't prevent you from using FireFox, but I guess most users would prefer a browser that doesn't need to much RAM and starts way faster

Installing FireFox is easy though, just type sudo opkg install firefox when online.

I'm increasingly concerned about the project. They've managed to have so many problems (carefully avoiding any hint of blame) - that I wonder why on EARTH should I expect problems with this device to cease once they've put it in a cardboard box?

Well, then you shouldn't buy any device. Nearly every production process has the same problems, they just don't become public.
Sometimes they even ship it with those flaws.
Check for WiFi issues on the iPad... seems to work worse than our WiFi.
The BeagleBoard had trouble with the USB port, the Touchbook couldn't even charge properly.
The difference is: We don't HIDE stuff like that that appear during production, we tell you what's wrong and try to fix it.
My last mobile phone crashes about twice a week until I updated the firmware, my Cable TV receiver did crash when I tried to move the channels around...

So if you're concerned about stuff like that, you should probably never buy a device that hasn't been out for a few years already.
Electronics and software is becoming more and more complicated these days, it's impossible NOT doing anything wrong

May I ask, please - are all of the first batch going to have this resistor bodge that gets us speed like 500kB/s? How about the second batch? Is this "500kB/s" now considered to be "full speed" for the Pandora? Is there any danger that the speed is seemingly quite low due to another (or the same?) hardware issue?

It won't get lower, it will probably increase as there are software things that can be done now. The signal the module gets is now fully within the specs, so it should be possible squeezing out more of it.

A lot of other mobile devices we tested didn't reach much higher speeds - most of them maxed at about 750KB/s.
Did you ever do a speedtest how fast your mobile phone can go with WiFi?

Don't forget that this saved OpenPandora a pile of cash, as the Chinese PCB manufacturer was LOADS cheaper than the USA company that did the prototyping (the same reasoning behind using the Chinbese case manufacturer that they settled on - because they were unbelievably cheaper than everyone else).

Well, the whole project still did cost A LOT more than the money we got from your preorders.
Please donate us a few hundred thousand USD to NOT produce some stuff in China, and we're happy.

OpenPandora - we won't be making cheap Chinese rubbish - we'll manufacture in America! (unless it's cheaper elsewhere).

And we still do. Manufacturing is the process of putting all things together.
The boards are still populated in America (since that's the most important and accurate thing, if we did that in China, 50% of the boards would probably have problems).
And the assembly is done in UK.

Try to find a device where NOTHING is from China these days... neither the board, any resistors, transistors, chips, parts, etc.
Good luck. Might be VERY hard to find some.
As you mentioned the PSP above: AFAIK most of the PSP stuff comes from China. At least for the first units.

 

[EvilDragon]

I remember being told that Pandora had AMPLE RAM to do anything you'd want to with it - before the amount of RAM was doubled. Why is FireFox not the default browser? Because it uses too much RAM?????

If it's like the Beagleboard, Firefox is a little sluggish seeing it's doesn't seem optimized to the hardware enough. It works and it's usable. But your better off using one of the leaner browsers.
[/quote]

It's exactly like that, yes. I don't know what FireFox has to offer that Midori or Arora don't offer (except for the extensions maybe).
If you really want to use it, go ahead

 

[VRAndy]

I need my Adblock+

... uh, because I'm allergic to advertisements.

... I've got a doctor's note.

 

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the info on adding Firefox, ED - there are some extensions I use on a daily basis that I wouldn't want to be without on my Pandora. (I don't care about the start-up speed very much, and to be honest I have yet to get on well with WebKit-based browsers.)

I have one question, though: If it was installed to the NAND, would it be wiped out by future firmware updates that you guys will be rolling out, and require reinstallation after such an update? (I'm asking because I have a vague memory of something like this being mentioned at some point. )

 

[crade]

It's exactly like that, yes. I don't know what FireFox has to offer that Midori or Arora don't offer (except for the extensions maybe).
If you really want to use it, go ahead

I really liked the tinymenu plugin on tiny screened / lower res devices as it lets you have all but one line of screen real estate available for content. I'm hoping there is something similar on whatever browser we end up with.

Edit: Should have said whatever browser ends up running well, as I don't care what the default one is

 

[neko]

I say something though? As I do plan on ordering one of these...maybe batch 2 or 3 though.

Can we opt to buy the pandoras unpainted? There's just no freaking way I can buy a gadget that will likely stick in my hands for 5 hours at a time potentially absorbing lead paint.

Lead paint poisoning is not the new black.

As long as you don't eat/breathe your Pandora, you should be fine.

"Inorganic lead is the form of lead used in lead-based paints. It is commonly encountered in harmful levels in and around houses that were painted with lead-based paints. Unlike organic lead, it may not be absorbed through the skin, but can enter the body in high amounts through ingestion or inhalation."

Lead carbonate is added to paint to make it white. Usually titanium dioxide is used for this purpose, but since it costs more, there is an incentive to cheat and use lead.

It'd be rather stupid to do this with black paint, since it would make it look grey. There are of course other ways to cheat and use low-quality paint, though.

 

[svs-57]

Is it possible receive all parts of OP instead of waiting assembly device forever?

 

[crade]

Lead carbonate is added to paint to make it white. Usually titanium dioxide is used for this purpose, but since it costs more, there is an incentive to cheat and use lead.

It'd be rather stupid to do this with black paint, since it would make it look grey. There are of course other ways to cheat and use low-quality paint, though.

It can be used as a cheap tint, but it doesn't need to be, it's also good for cheap water proofing, cheap durability, flexibility, cheap opacity (so less paint goes further). Good for all sorts of stuff! To bad it's illegal.

 

[Zotty]

I remember being told that Pandora had AMPLE RAM to do anything you'd want to with it - before the amount of RAM was doubled. Why is FireFox not the default browser? Because it uses too much RAM?????

If it's like the Beagleboard, Firefox is a little sluggish seeing it's doesn't seem optimized to the hardware enough. It works and it's usable. But your better off using one of the leaner browsers.
[/quote]
Used to have Firefox on my dual core laptop, but open a couple of tabs it slows down to a crawl. Just kicked it of my laptop and haven't looked at it further, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's something in it's design making it sluggish. Opera took over long ago!

Don't even want to try it on a Pandora, since my expectations of Firefox are low already.

 

[Pleng]

You can use install it [FireFox] from the Angström Repos if you want (you have about 200MB free on the NAND to install whatever you want).

..

Installing FireFox is easy though, just type sudo opkg install firefox when online.

And presumably somebody will package up a firefox PND soon enough, anyway.

 

[droneb]

OK thats enough im off this boards, im tired of all the racial sh*t not to say
a little missinterpretation leads to pages and more pages of Cr*p..

i will say it again where did the MODS go?

if theres not enough of them they should start nominating some.

VOTE MALI FOR MOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
(if he wants to)

 

[lulzfish]

I need my Adblock+

Arora has an ad blocker built-in. It doesn't have a subscription service, but you can custom block anything from a single image up to a whole domain using wildcards.

It also has a "click to play Flash" with a user-defined whitelist.

There's no NoScript, though.

 

[VRAndy]

Has anyone tried Fennec on the Pandora lately?