Mould Creation Time

[God Ginrai]

IIRC, the factory is TI's factory. The factory only has to "obey" if the company owns them, which OpenPandora Ltd. does not.

-God Ginrai

Last I checked, TI was doing the boards, but the mould making company is in China I believe. Your point still stands in the end.

Yes, I was referring to the factory that was doing the boards, because it was a response to a complaint that the factory who wasn't taking pictures (which was the people making the boards) should listen to the company.

-God Ginrai

 

[elwing]

The moulds would be ours I assume.

I wouldn't assume that... and it is not a problem for consumer(except if the company go down...). but in the toy industry lots of fake are produced using the real product mould... I personnally would make sure that it is not the case if I were producing pandora... I would not want some fake padora with a built in nes-on-a-chip....

 

[Kyo]

The pandora is not a playstation. No one cares about it.

 

[fischju2000]

Oh, and the tracking number isn't working on the UPS website...

Did I miss something in this thread? TRACKING NUMBERS? WHAT IS BEING SHIPPED?!

 

[gruso]

TV cables, to MWeston.

 

[borgqueenx]

We should bomb ups. Why are you guys keep using them? Its a crap company!

 

[bzar]

Oh, and the tracking number isn't working on the UPS website...

Did I miss something in this thread? TRACKING NUMBERS? WHAT IS BEING SHIPPED?!

You thought two mont... *thinks about kittens* You thought they started shipping our pandoras? By the Great RNG I wish that were true.

 

[Monk]

The moulds would be ours I assume.

Nubs.

Oh, and the tracking number isn't working on the UPS website...

You guys broke it ALREADYY????

it's a total irrelevance really as it's all based on trust with the factory (as with most things), and we plan to use them until the moulds crack. We have (not openpandora) used this company before so we have past experience with them.

Nubs!

Did you have past experience with the company/factory that did the first batch of nubs that went tits up? (Just wondering)

See? Nubs! (one aspect thereof).

Yes, I was referring to the factory that was doing the boards, because it was a response to a complaint that the factory who wasn't taking pictures (which was the people making the boards) should listen to the company.

I thought Craig was the only one referring to photos of the boards, while (practically, except when posting to clarify what we're not asking for or why we're not asking for it) everyone else seemed (in this Mould Creation thread) to be calling for pictures of the case production progress.

I thunked



But most of all - we either learn from the past or we are doomed to repeat it. Assuming that you own something (like the nub design, or the case mould design, or an individual case mould) is not safe. Assumptions are BAD people! It's like being "pretty confident" about July. Sure, we HAD a July but the weather wasn't "all that" if you ask me. What happens if you pay for the cases and the Chinese company unexpectedly gets into financial toruble and cannot/does not ship them to you?

"What If" - the founding principle of the Spreadsheet industry. Oh - and the SciFi genre too.

 

[craigix]

We are still using the nub moulds? I'm not quite understanding the reference, did you think when the nub manufacturer went bust we lost the moulds? We didn't, they are with another factory, what we lost was our payment for them.

 

[Monk]

We are still using the nub moulds? I'm not quite understanding the reference, did you think when the nub manufacturer went bust we lost the moulds? We didn't, they are with another factory, what we lost was our payment for them.

Sigh.

Simplify, simplify... OK, you made assumptions about the nub manufacturers, based on reputation or experience or whatever. Stuff sent south which ended up costing you a bundle. the details are largely irrelevant - but "nub deal went south expensively" is the initial point.

A while back - it feels like months! (it might be) ED said something like "Tell me - what could POSSIBLY go wrong now to delay Pandora any further? There's nothing left to go wrong!"

Delays continue.

Now, when we hear you commenting on the case moulds "Oh, I ASSUME we own those" it FEELS like you're continuing to be terribly optimistic and assume that everything will go right, contrary to the experience of (what cannot be but FEELS like) almost every aspect of this project to date. The nubs seemed like an ideal, simple, easy example to get the point across.

Personally I am NOT arguing that OpenPandora SHOULD own the moulds. I am NOT arguing that OpenPandora SHOULD NOT own the moulds. I AM arguing that OpenPandora ought to know what it owns and what it does not own - be it source code to the nub drivers/controllers or the moulds for producing the Pandora casing or whatever else.

The nub designer company went bust. This caused delays and extra costs. What happens if the mould company goes bust? (Don't say "they won't" - we didn't think the nub company would go under). Do you own the moulds? Can you lay claim to them? What tweaks have the mould company had to make to get the cases perfect? Do you have those changes? Do you OWN those changes? In short, if the worst comes to the worst, if they go bust before you get the first 10,000 cases OR if they go bust between batches 2 and 3 (or 3 and 4) then do you have to start looking for another company to START the "45 day" mould design process from again? From scratch?

It's not about owning the moulds, or owning the nub code, it's about having a plan B. It seems unlikely that you can make a Plan B if you don't know what Plan A is, exactly.

 

[kloplop321]

before when I mentioned the nubs, I knew they were separate from the cases, I am just wondering if you had prior experience with them.

@Monk, very well supported point

 

[craigix]

We didn't have prior experience with them, it was a case of they were the only company we could find who would even attempt to make such a nub.

 

[kattle87]

It's not about owning the moulds, or owning the nub code, it's about having a plan B. It seems unlikely that you can make a Plan B if you don't know what Plan A is, exactly.

this sums up everything I would say, too.

 

[craigix]

If they went bust the situation would be strange as they would have to have finished the moulds and yet go bust before making the 10,000 cases (estimated time, 1 day).

In such a strange situation I would suspect it would take so long to get the moulds back that it would be quicker to just have them made again. If they went bust while making them then they would be unfinished and again we would have to have them made again anyway.

It is not possible to make an accurate plan when you don't know what *might* happen, it sounds very nice in your post, but it's not something which can be done to any accuracy, aside from plan B just being to ask another company to make the moulds... who could also conceivably go bust. As could Texas Instruments. As could the battery manufacturer.

As I said, you have to have an element of trust. We sorted out the nub situation and we would sort out any further situation too. It's what we have been doing for the last year.

 

[WhiteBat]

 

[craigix]

I just checked, as assumed, yes we do own the moulds.

 

[MonkeyChops]

you all make it pretty hard for Craig to reply to anything. Dear God, quit over analyzing everything he says and give the guy a break!

 

[Monk]

In such a strange situation I would suspect it would take so long to get the moulds back that it would be quicker to just have them made again.

Sadly, that sounds quite likely assuming other manufacturers would take around 45 days from the data that you have to produce a workable mould

It is not possible to make an accurate plan when you don't know what *might* happen, it sounds very nice in your post, but it's not something which can be done to any accuracy

Generally basic contingency planning isn't 100% accurate and tied down. IMHO. It rolls and flows with time, adjusting to circumstances. But I personally prefer to have a Plan B option - and I personally find it difficult to make a Plan B when I don't know what Plan A is.

As I said, you have to have an element of trust. We sorted out the nub situation and we would sort out any further situation too. It's what we have been doing for the last year.

Indeed, seemingly lurching from one crisis to the next. I can't have been fun

I just checked, as assumed, yes we do own the moulds.

Thanks Craig

Anyone in the "own the moulds" group should now feel happier. Anyone in the 2I don't care but KNOw what you're doing" crowd should also be sated. Prepare for the onslaught from "You shouldn't own the moulds, it does you no good and raises the price of the cases" crowd imminently

{image}

I'm pretty sure that was funny the first 5 times it was used. Now it's trotted out whenever anyone posts in response to Craig with anything that isn't "Wow, super cool dude!"

you all make it pretty hard for Craig to reply to anything. Dear God, quit over analyzing everything he says and give the guy a break!

Oh I dunno, he seems to be able to post quite well as far as I can see. "I just checked, as assumed, yes we do own the moulds." doesn't SEEM to have taxed him unduly. I think you should give him credit for greater ability (and familiarity) with net behaviour!

 

[Phawx]

I hope next week bears some fruit from the mould company. Even though I have quite a bit going on, on my end, I can't seem to get the Panda off of my brain's schedule. The next couple of months are gonna be bumpy.

 

[X-Code]

Keep up the good work guys!