More Pandora 2 crap (MicroSD Split)

[thatgui]

This isn't just my decision, it's the decision of the whole team. And yes, I've double checked.


It's not going to have full sized SD. It takes up too much space.


Getting angry won't change this.

What about the idea of replacing the NAND with a (internal) microSD ?

I'm kind of surprised nobody has stated that full sized USB, "is not the future."


USB 3.0 definitely IS the future though - and really should be present on this type of device.

Is USB3 necessary ? I personally wouldn't mind about having USB3 as it is backwards compatible. But are there any compromises OP would have to deal with if they decide to hop on the USB3 waggon - especially regarding power consumption. I would rather stay with USB2 if P2 would loose a signifcant percentage of her battery life.

 

[Scntrblob]

This isn't just my decision, it's the decision of the whole team. And yes, I've double checked.


It's not going to have full sized SD. It takes up too much space.


Getting angry won't change this.

Just to make sure I am getting this right: "whole team" refers to MW, ED and you, yes? So you say FullsizeSD won't happen because it takes to much place.


Question: What kind of space? Surface space, height or what? I see none of these being relevant, keeping in mind that a few thread apart 95% state they'd prefer FullSD Cards and you stating you want to make the P2 smaller. Wouldn't it be worth considering to leave that making it smaller out for the sense of what the community wants?


SD Card size is by no means a fundamental question in terms of P2 to me, what does matter is, that there is a clear opinion on what the community wants and you just come up again stating it is decided NOW ALREADY that there will be no place for them, when there is a) no decision on what SoC to use yet(?) and b ) no decision on what space will be available.


So, I'd accuse you of making that "the team has spoken" point up, otherwise it would really surprise me if ED would just say no to an overwhelming part of the community.

 

[grydholt]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has stated that full sized USB, "is not the future."


USB 3.0 definitely IS the future though - and really should be present on this type of device.


For the USB - I'd be satisfied with two USB 3.0 micro connectors and having OTG capabilities on one or both of them. They are -wider- than standard microUSB connectors as they have a side-car


[snip]

I don't think you'll get more than one USB 3.0 connector but if it is added to the openpandora it'll have OTG capability (http://en.wikipedia....iki/OMAP#OMAP_5)

 

[Binky]

it would really surprise me if ED would just say no to an overwhelming part of the community.

Unless there's a backup plan.


I'd really like to hear some P2 plans from Ed's point of view - it might calm the outcry over memory cards and the importance of datasheet specs


for example, EDs idea for a 1280x800 screen seems to make sense, given the requirement for running current desktop software

 

[SoleGrave]

I think it is a bit too soon to severe the SD out right at least keep one. Current generation handhelds still use full size SD cartridge variants as well as other consumer electronics. Its an arguable issue of compatibility. I think not supporting it hurts a fair share of pandora's ease of use functionality. Going only microSD might be easier for a lot of reasons but cutting support from your own current install base is risky.


.

 

[Askarus]

This isn't just my decision, it's the decision of the whole team. And yes, I've double checked.


It's not going to have full sized SD. It takes up too much space.


Getting angry won't change this.

Unless I don't have a clear statement from EvilDragon I don't believe there isn't space for what the community wants.


I think you sacrifice the full sized SD-slot to make Pandora 2 unnoticable smaler/thinner or to build in something additional stuff you won't tell.


If Pandora 2 is modular with any stuff behind the screen why isn't there some space on the board as it's on Pandora 1?


At least one full sized SD-slot doesn't kill the whole project. You can't tell me that. it's just some more work for you, that's it.


Did you see this: http://boards.openpa...-r2l2-reworked/


I got 4 great working shoulder buttons into my Pandora. EvilDragon told me there is no room for them.


If you want to, it's possible to get at least one full SD-slot inside.


Take a look at your statement.


It's nothing more than you said before, it's simply other words.


I want some clear arguments what is so big that it needs more space than all that stuff inside Pandora 1. If you replace one full SD with micro SD it's even more space.


It's really not that much more to get one full SD-slot inside.


As long as I don't get some solid arguments it's nothing.


Will there be at least some spares for R2/L2 buttons or is that also to a waste for you?


Will we get R2/L2 in the end built in by default?


Tell me anything to understand why there's no room.


If you'd say we get R2/L2 instead it's some argument I can follow.


Please give me anything to understand why there's no room and you work against nearly everyone here.

 

[Binky]

^agree


Has the design really been so finalised that it cannot be changed to add high-demand features?


I feel making unpopular decisions, with poorly-founded/non-existent reasons, and finalising these without waiting for feedback, is lacking a lot of the "Open" that makes these projects special


The assumption is that full-size SD is less important than being small


For me, its not. Maybe for a android games console, but not for the geeks that write free software for Pandoras.


Maybe the P1 was supposed to be a games machine - but it isn't at the moment, and the customers aren't game-console customers.


quote++ for askarus

 

[ShleeDragon]

I love you guys.. Anybody want to call Apple and ask them why they changed their cable? or extended the screen?


Sometimes you don't get a say. Business is business. We just get to talk to the owners... which warps your mind

 

[Scntrblob]

I love you guys.. Anybody want to call Apple and ask them why they changed their cable? or extended the screen?


Sometimes you don't get a say. Business is business. We just get to talk to the owners... which warps your mind

What point are you trying to make?

 

[craigix]

I spoke to Michael today about this, it's a space issue.


I don't think you realise how much space 2 full sized SD slots take up. Remember one whole side of the Pandora PCB is the controls.


I've also spoken to Ed about it, he has no problem with MicroSD.


There is so much to get in to the P2 we have to use the latest *space saving* technology, such as microSD slots. Just like every other manufacture does


when making a compact device these days.


Full sized SD is for devices where size does not matter, like camera and video equipment.


If for some reason you *really* needed full sized SD I'm sure there are USB->SD adaptors available.

 

[Exophase]

I love you guys.. Anybody want to call Apple and ask them why they changed their cable? or extended the screen?


Sometimes you don't get a say. Business is business. We just get to talk to the owners... which warps your mind

Apple would never get away with the terms OPT has given the community for receiving their preorders. I would have never donated money to Apple to help them fulfill their outstanding preorders. I thought the rules were different and this sort of thing was a two way street but maybe I was wrong.

 

[Binky]

I don't think you realise how much space 2 full sized SD slots take up. Remember one whole side of the Pandora PCB is the controls.

Full SD takes up lots of space, fair enough.


But there's room for two of the things in a P1


therefore it is within the realms of possibility to include at least on fullSD slot in the P2

There is so much to get in to the P2

What sort of extra things compared to the P1?


a GPS chip would be nice


Obviously something is taking up all that space - unless its all shed in the name of light'n'thin

 

[konqithedragon]

OK I personally would want 1 full SD but if the plan is to put more features into the P2 then I will accept it.

 

[Binky]

Please could the team seriously consider some kind of expansion system as product5 or product4.5


Maybe a wireless expansion server - maybe an extra pcb for the P2 - or something else


Also, a little more explanation about Why there is so little space in the P2 would be helpful

 

[Grench]

I spoke to Michael today about this, it's a space issue.


I don't think you realise how much space 2 full sized SD slots take up. Remember one whole side of the Pandora PCB is the controls.


I've also spoken to Ed about it, he has no problem with MicroSD.


There is so much to get in to the P2 we have to use the latest *space saving* technology, such as microSD slots. Just like every other manufacture does


when making a compact device these days.


Full sized SD is for devices where size does not matter, like camera and video equipment.


If for some reason you *really* needed full sized SD I'm sure there are USB->SD adaptors available.

Then tell us about the USB ports. You've said before that there will be a 'full sized USB port' on the Pandora 2. If that is going to be a USB 2.0 port, then it's inadequate to the task - it's too slow. If it is going to be a full sized USB 3.0 port, then it's a really tall feature for the machine you're describing. Hopefully we're using the side-car style microUSB 3.0 connectors so they're backwards compatible to microUSB 2.0 and OTG.


The big magic to full sized SD cards would have been combined speed and capacity. With microSD you can generally get half of one or half the other.


I get nervous when I hear that the function is following the form. Personally, I would rather have it be a couple of cm wider left-right with SD and have some left-right screen bezels and some empty surface space next to the keys than leave full sized SD out of the spec.


Thin is good. The existing Pandora pushes the limits of thickness and is close on depth. It could be up to 4cm wider left-right though and I doubt anyone would sniffle.

 

[Binky]

^ agree with second part about form, function and width


Do not agree with thing about USB


The P2 should have microUSB3.0 AB


and full size USB3.0 A


the latter is the same size to full USB 2.0 A

 

[craigix]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

 

[fusion_power]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

My only problem with MicroSDs are the size. They are just to small and fragile, they can get lost by just a fresh breeze. They can vanish within seconds and you will never ever find it again.

 

[Saber]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

Confirmed.


Big SD cards are big.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

Two things.


1. I am completely flabbergasted by your observation as I was totally unaware of how large SD in fact is. Are they all that big? I suddenly have the urge to throw all of my old and nasty SD away and replace them with shiny new microSD cards, at least until nanoSD comes out (they're the size of dirt under your fingernail).


2. Just for fun let's do that with the Open Pandora and microSD:

Spoiler

Can we at least compromise and go miniSD? I know for a fact there's been some strong supporters on these forums for this kind of move...


Here's how big that is, just FYI: