More Pandora 2 crap (MicroSD Split)

[ferrule]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

That would be fine. SDXC spec goes to 104MB/s vs 10MB/s for microSDHC. 100MB/s transfers from storage on a portable would kick ass!


Usability is more important to me than portability...

 

[Exophase]

That would be fine. SDXC spec goes to 104MB/s vs 10MB/s for microSDHC. 100MB/s transfers from storage on a portable would kick ass!

Usability is more important to me than portability...

I don't know where you read that but there's nothing in the protocol that differentiates transfer speed capability between SD and microSD (both come in SDXC variants). They're electrically identical. You can buy microSD cards today that can read up to 95 MB/s, and you'd probably have a hard time even finding ones that are capped at 10 MB/s...


You know, this sort of thing comes up so much despite all the posts we make decrying it (even in this very thread!), maybe we should just put it in the FAQ or something.

 

[ferrule]

That would be fine. SDXC spec goes to 104MB/s vs 10MB/s for microSDHC. 100MB/s transfers from storage on a portable would kick ass!

Usability is more important to me than portability...

I don't know where you read that but there's nothing in the protocol that differentiates transfer speed capability between SD and microSD (both come in SDXC variants). They're electrically identical. You can buy microSD cards today that can read up to 95 MB/s, and you'd probably have a hard time even finding ones that are capped at 10 MB/s...


You know, this sort of thing comes up so much despite all the posts we make decrying it (even in this very thread!), maybe we should just put it in the FAQ or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_memory_cards#Technical_details


I just dug a little more and lexar advertises a microsdhc card @45MB/s.


Those little cards just seem so sketchy though don't they? Doesn't seem right that you can get 64GB in a card the size of your pinky fingernail.


So anyways, sorry for my contributions to the FUD. microSD, seems legit. I'm in.

 

[Grench]

Michael has actually said he would like to have one SDXC if it's possible, but just let me remind you how big 'big' SD is:

The answer is simple. Make the P2 wider than the iCP2 by as much as you need to fit them. add 1cm to both sides and you should be set.


That should add the room needed for R2 and L2 as well.

 

[Exophase]

Not very simple when their plan all along was to use the iCP2 base for Pandora 2..


Most people understand that some compromise is necessary and would be happy with only one full SD slot, you don't have to constantly refer to what two full SD slots would take up.


Until recently I hadn't realized how small iCP2 is. It's actually almost the same dimensions as the GP2X Wiz. Seems clear to me that at some point it was decided that Pandora 2 should be similar in surface area to a phone, not merely that iCP2 is this size because it's actually interfacing phones. That's disappointing, because for a lot of us smaller is less comfortable. I'm perfectly happy with the size of 3DS, and would prefer those dimensions vastly over something Wiz sized, since I found Wiz a lot less comfortable to use.


Still don't have a ton of faith that Pandora 2 will be able to fit a totally zero bezel screen on top, leading to a concern of a 5" display that is larger than the base.

 

[Binky]

I think the small size was a misjudgement


Make it 15mm wider and squeeze in a full SD slot

 

[Scntrblob]

I spoke to Michael today about this, it's a space issue.


I don't think you realise how much space 2 full sized SD slots take up. Remember one whole side of the Pandora PCB is the controls.


I've also spoken to Ed about it, he has no problem with MicroSD.


There is so much to get in to the P2 we have to use the latest *space saving* technology, such as microSD slots. Just like every other manufacture does


when making a compact device these days.


Full sized SD is for devices where size does not matter, like camera and video equipment.


If for some reason you *really* needed full sized SD I'm sure there are USB->SD adaptors available.

I find it pretty funny how fast "a double checked decision of the team" turns into "having no problem with something", but it also shows pretty good what you seem the community to regard as.


I think the true reason is just, that you want to use the iCP2 as a base here and there it would be a space problem.


But again, a lot of people like the current size of the pandora1, think of it as comfortable. For myself, making it thinner at the holding part would make it uncomfortable.


(Whereas, to say something positive, I like the rounded button corners of the iCP2s as the Pandora cuts into my palms a bit.)

 

[konqithedragon]

perhaps the SD card slots could be placed behind the screen?

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, if one full sized cage fits on the PCB, I don't think there's a reason not to put it there.


It wouldn't make the P2 thicker, why should it?


The height of an SD Card slot is about the same as for an Mini USB port, even thinner than a full sized USB port (which we also should have, it's one of Pandoras main features).


So thickness is not an issue here.


BTW: I said I'm fine with MicroSD if there's absolutely no chance to put in a full sized SD Slot anywhere. But my favourite would still be one full sized and one MicroSD slot.

 

[Askarus]

Did you see that picture of ICP 2 and SD-Cards.


It's definitly to smal for a Pandora.


Make it bigger for a bigger screen.

 

[konqithedragon]

Should be released this month... apparently 900 US$ tho.... about half the amount needed for a full PS1 N.A set...

 

[Exophase]

I find it pretty funny how fast "a double checked decision of the team" turns into "having no problem with something", but it also shows pretty good what you seem the community to regard as.

What's more funny is how it wasn't until 1.5 hours after Craig posted that that ED posted this:

EDIT: Just found an eMail Craig sent me a few hours ago where he asked whether we're set with MicroSD or not. Not sure about Mike (the above is the latest info from him), but I'm pretty sure I want full sized SD if possible (don't want to throw away my 128GB Card... and that size is not even possible yet with MicroSDXC)

It sounds to me like Craig's so-called confirmation was that he asked the question and didn't even get the answer yet.

 

[Saber]

I find it pretty funny how fast "a double checked decision of the team" turns into "having no problem with something", but it also shows pretty good what you seem the community to regard as.

What's more funny is how it wasn't until 1.5 hours after Craig posted that that ED posted this:

EDIT: Just found an eMail Craig sent me a few hours ago where he asked whether we're set with MicroSD or not. Not sure about Mike (the above is the latest info from him), but I'm pretty sure I want full sized SD if possible (don't want to throw away my 128GB Card... and that size is not even possible yet with MicroSDXC)

It sounds to me like Craig's so-called confirmation was that he asked the question and didn't even get the answer yet.

The part in bold reads like they had talked about and were leaning toward Micro SD. I think it shows Craig might be willing to compromise about it if it can be done. One SD and one µSD sounds good to me.

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, Craig asked me a while ago if I would be fine with MicroSD... I replied that I'd prefer a full sized SD Slot but if it's not possible, then MicroSD is fine as well.


But yeah, I got that mail a day after he posted on IRC that we all want to use MicroSD.


That's what I want to change. I don't want ANYONE from the Pandora team to post "it's fixed that we will do that" until we really all agreed to that and checked the various options.

 

[ekianjo]

Oh, Craig asked me a while ago if I would be fine with MicroSD... I replied that I'd prefer a full sized SD Slot but if it's not possible, then MicroSD is fine as well.


But yeah, I got that mail a day after he posted on IRC that we all want to use MicroSD.


That's what I want to change. I don't want ANYONE from the Pandora team to post "it's fixed that we will do that" until we really all agreed to that and checked the various options.

yeah it's supposed to be OP TEAM, not OP=Craig. That definitely has got to change. It's a community project, after all.

 

[Exophase]

In case anyone is confused by what I meant, it's referring to where Craig said this:

This isn't just my decision, it's the decision of the whole team. And yes, I've double checked.


It's not going to have full sized SD. It takes up too much space.


Getting angry won't change this.

It would appear when he said he double checked with the team he meant he sent an e-mail to ED that hadn't gotten a response yet. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what happened.

 

[dgame]

I would take one SD instead of two microSD slots.


Personally I only have had microSD cards physically fail.


Never had a problem with SD and my P1 works fine with only one SD card.


Another benefit of SD is that it can be adapted to fit the smaller sizes.

 

[EvilDragon]

In case anyone is confused by what I meant, it's referring to where Craig said this:

This isn't just my decision, it's the decision of the whole team. And yes, I've double checked.


It's not going to have full sized SD. It takes up too much space.


Getting angry won't change this.

It would appear when he said he double checked with the team he meant he sent an e-mail to ED that hadn't gotten a response yet. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what happened.

Hm, no idea what he meant.


Maybe he meant he double checked and it doesn't fit the size?

 

[Exophase]

By that context it's hard to think he meant anything other than double checked that it's the decision of the whole team.. if he actually has double checked the size then I'm impressed to hear that the PCB design for Pandora 2 is so far ahead that such a thing could be done. Good news? ;p

I would take one SD instead of two microSD slots.


Personally I only have had microSD cards physically fail.


Never had a problem with SD and my P1 works fine with only one SD card.


Another benefit of SD is that it can be adapted to fit the smaller sizes.

I need to look into this deeper, but last time I tried booting my i.MX53QSB it didn't work, and I think that snap I felt while grabbing the microSD card might have had something to do with it..


My feeling is that devices like phones will more typically have a card inserted for long periods of time, while Pandora is more likely to see card swapping. That would seem to be a major reason why it has two slots in the first place. Especially if there'll be an internal slot for booting.

 

[Grench]

Well, if one full sized cage fits on the PCB, I don't think there's a reason not to put it there.


It wouldn't make the P2 thicker, why should it?


The height of an SD Card slot is about the same as for an Mini USB port, even thinner than a full sized USB port (which we also should have, it's one of Pandoras main features).


So thickness is not an issue here.


BTW: I said I'm fine with MicroSD if there's absolutely no chance to put in a full sized SD Slot anywhere. But my favourite would still be one full sized and one MicroSD slot.

We don't know what SoC you're planning to use - so I'm going to be making some assumptions.


Assumption: There are plenty of connection points to the SoC OR you're using an on-motherboard USB 3.0 hub to feed to/from the SD/sdxc, GPS, keyboard, etc (modular design on USB 3.0).


Here's the giant question: Why not have both and piggy back them? Mount the SD card slot feature a touch high and mount the microSD underneath it - in it's shadow so to speak. Do that twice and we'll have four cards - two of each. That should yield the ultimate in flexibility.


Another option is to stack two SD cards on top of each other - offset front to back by 1.5mm or so for the leads. That might get a bit thick though.