Pandora Lite ?

[Klumpen]

EvilDragon and his companions are already working on a successor and for a userbase between 4000 and 5000 people they would be stupid and bankrupt in no time

as soon as they start making a light version, because building another kind of product costs about 300.000.

If you want to pay for the whole production (design, molds, ect...) you are welcome to do so, although I doubt, that anyone has time and nerves for that, even if you are a nice millionaire that has the urge to finance it.

 

[comradekingu]

How is the GWZ-Zero dissapointing?

 

[mcobit]

I guess because a lot of software is optimized for arm these days because of Android/iOS

 

[Binky]

Wouldn't the savings of a smaller/simpler device be vastly outweighed by the cost of new PCBs and new case moulds?

 

[Agoria]

About the GCW ZERO :

A large amount of backers are fed up with the person that handles the project, because of repeated lies (according to them) to explain the fact that they have not receied the console yet, whereas some online shops that were not involved since the begining already did. The fact that they don't trust him anymore leaded in a loss of interest from the community, and order refunds, 

And a loss of interest means less apps, emus, games, optimization, especially with an unusual architecture.

Plus, that console have some reliability issues, with some buttons and the speakers (one is louder than another).

Last but not the least, the cross seems to be low quality. It needs an heavy finger pressure which is bad for that kind of device.

@Klumpen

It's not supposed to be done tomorrow. 

Even in a few years a console which is able to run the Pandora's games and emus will be interesting.

Even if the console comes out in 3 years, it will provide a larger range of apps and games than any console that comes out today.

For the funding, well, I know that a kickstarter campaign costs money, but if they do, first, a survey, to see if people is interested, and, if yes, they spend a reasonnable amount of money to produce a first design they can show in a Kickstarter page, the investment can be worth, isn't it ?

@Binker

I don't know, I guess that it depends the amount of persons that are ready to invest in a device like this.

That's why i ask them at least to consider the option.

Sorry for my english.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

It sounds like the NVidia Shield will suit your needs.  It runs most of the emus on the Pandora.  Just no keyboard so emus that use real keyboards will not work as nice as on the Pandora but that's what you want, i.e., no keyboard, so I would say the Shield is what you need....

 

[comradekingu]

The guy handling the project has a job and is working his ass off to see the project through. The only ones that havent gotten their consoles yet,(me included) are some european backers. Pending a FCC sticker, which has been produced and images of which have been provided. Its so sold out ED cant get any units... Having demand and delivering units is not how to scam people. I wouldnt have gotten my device quicker just because some thinkgeek customers are getting theirs before me, good for them.

If you want something thats better, get a Pandora. If you want something that is cheap and flawed for its intended use, there are a plethora of chinese things to get.

If you cant afford a (potential) kickstarter (loss) or the cost of a pandora, invest some time into finding out how production in Europe works, because it seems you want what you cant have. Mod the d-pad if you aren't happy with the GWZ-zero one, that was the order of business for GP2X. Also, fix the speaker issues yourself or use headphones, it is going to fix your situation a whole lot quicker than it is to produce an extra device for a small company... And its going to be a whole lot cheaper than buying a new device.

Tell me what is the matter with a GWZ-zero and how to model for it. Im pretty sure GWZ targeted zero flaws at the design stage too. Nobody has 100% of everything working at any given time. From hardware to software, there is always _something_ that could be improved. Community devices is about making that happen rather than complaining un-constructively about it.

 

[_wb_]

It's not a bad idea to consider a "Pandora Lite". But if you think about it, it's not easy to make it cheaper.

• The PCB would have to be the same, otherwise you get the extra cost of having to design a new PCB, and you would lose software compatibility if the PCB changes too much.
• The screen: you cannot really use a lower / different resolution if you want to keep software compatibility, so you would have to look for a 800x480 screen that is cheaper (maybe because it has no touch and/or is smaller). Will be hard to find.
• The battery, nubs, dpad, action buttons and shoulder buttons would be the same because designing new ones would add extra cost.
• You would have to design a new case that is basically the same as the current one, but without the hole for the keyboard.

So what would make it cheaper? You can take away the keymat, and maybe use a slightly cheaper screen (if it can be found).

A normal Pandora can be produced for 300 € (it's currently sold at 499 €). You can buy a replacement keymat for 4.20 € in ED's shop. You can buy a new LCD screen for 85 € in ED's shop. Let's say you can find a cheaper screen that only costs half of that. Then you can produce your Pandora lite for 250 €. You'll want to sell it for more than that, to take into account any repairs under warranty, amortizing one-time costs like the new mold you would need for the keyboard-less case, and profit.

So let's say you can sell the Pandora lite for 300 € (realistically, it would probably be more like 400 €).

Would you buy that?

 

[mcobit]

I think if you want to see such design, you should consider taking the risk yourself.


Gather money and make a prototype. ED/others here might help to get you started but I don't think they would take the risk themselves that is involved in making a complete redesign.


Maybe you could even make a contract with ed to get the board and you then "only" have to design the case and get the parts like screen etc.

 

[EvilDragon]

First, some words about the GCW:

Yes, I agree that Justin sometimes isn't the most reliable guy when it comes to informations and answers, but knowing how much work and stress such a production causes, it's something I can understand a bit.

Additionally, it's getting better.

I know some people complain Online Shops are getting it before them - but I'm not sure they all know what online shops paid it and when.

I was also getting units before all Kickstarter devices had been shipped, but I fully paid 100 units months before Kickstarter had even started - and I didn't even get all these units yet. So should I now complain that Kickstarter backers are getting units even though I paid and ordered before?

Okay now back to the idea of a Pandora Lite.

I've thought about that myself a while ago already.

However, there are multiple issues.

1. It would need a completely new case, similar to a Caanoo one. That's about 70,000 EUR.

2. Running the same software would cause issues, as most software expects to have a keyboard. So it would need its own ports again.

3. Redesigning the PCB would be about 5,000 EUR as well, but that would be the smallest thing.

Mass production of the cases is actually cheap, so except for the additional costs upfront for the design, the production costs would be about 10 EUR less.

If 1000 of these units would be built and sold though, it would trigger 65,000 EUR more costs for the design - which is 65 EUR per unit.

Production would safe 10 EUR, so it would still be 55 EUR per unit more.

So a Pandora Lite would need to cost 55 EUR more than the normal one and would need its own software library.

I'd be lucky to even sell just these 1000 units... so definitely not worth it, even though I'd like it as well. 

 

[comradekingu]

Theoretically, if the normal one had something like a FPGA it could be modular in the sense that it was delivered non-populated. Its not a huge saving, and its more of a normal and a deluxe, not a lite option.

Getting rid of mandatory options and keeping the base product what it is and true to spirit has always been key. I dont think it will have something like a camera, but then again, if you want that, plug in a USB one.

 

[Binky]

if the normal one had something like a FPGA it could be modular in the sense that it was delivered non-populated.

Getting rid of mandatory options

I know I say this a lot, but what you say really does not make sense!

"mandatory option" is an oxymoron.

What is the link between FPGAs, modularity and not being populated?

 

[comradekingu]

To make mandatory that which is an option initially. I think and write at the same time.

If the FPGA is not populated, you save the cost of the part, and maybe some licensing fees.

Its not easy to make use of that space other than for diy jobs, so to begin with it makes sense to go with as little as possible and then add onto that externally what one wants. Internal modularity costs space and increases complexity.

 

[WizardStan]

You mean... just leave a BGA unpopulated and tell end users to populate it themselves if they want an FPGA?

I am misunderstanding you, yes?

 

[comradekingu]

I meant you could diy something else into that pcb space, otherwise it goes to waste, which is why its best to start with a minimum consisting of what the device is intended for. It isnt a camera and it cant be a good one, and camera does (almost) nothing for games, so thats out for example.

 

[Binky]

you could diy something else into that pcb space

Not really.

BGA pads are tiny and very densely packed.

We aren't talking 0.1" through-hole here :huh:

 

[comradekingu]

which is why i said "something else"

 

[WizardStan]

So how does the FPGA fit into what you were saying? Why bring it up?

 

[comradekingu]

It is an additional feature to what the base product is. Not including it isnt the best option, and that explains why generally setting sail for one version that covers the task at hand well is preferable. Internal modularity or "extras" is a costly affair and a tradeoff between complexity, cost, or wasted pcb space. If you can do without any of those it makes sense to settle at that for the platform on which things are done.

Tl;DR there cant be a lite version that is separate in any major way from the main version, and the main version has to be non-lite by nature of being the only one.

 

[WizardStan]

But you're the one who mentioned FPGA. It's like you suggested having it for the sole purpose of not including it and freeing up PCB space. Why even bring it up?