London riots!

[gunrock]

The photos look very similar to each other..

Except the Greek one, which looks quite sedate! Ah Athens, the seat of philosophy, medicine, poetry, learned writing and fat greeks upset at their earth-shattering deficit.

 

[Link]

"When we talk about militants, everyone talks about violence, but one of the baselines we have to talk about that people don't acknowledge is that empire is based on violence in the first place, and there is tremendous violence going on right now. We can't talk about any sort of militant resistance without acknowledging that brown people the world over are being bombed to serve empire." Derrick Jensen


I bring this to light because I'm not turning on FOX news (ring a bell UK people?), CNN, or MSGMGENBC for my news on this issue. But I recall teachers and students in the streets a few weeks ago due to cuts, increases in tuition, and other programs growing through "austerity" measures. Any chance some of this is rolling over, that people got nothing the last time they took to the streets, so this time they are sending a louder message to the man vacationing in Italy who didn't listen to them the last time they took the streets, were any of those in Parliament listening? Seems like something has their attention, and believe that it is thugs and useless menaces on society. That's what the media wants you to believe, they want you to have the discussion of how poor are these people who contribute nothing to the world. Understanding the real problem and explaining how the rich are much better off now than they were 10 years ago isn't going to be covered by Rupert Murdoch.


There has been NO job creation in the US in the last 10 years, none. Our kids are too fat and lazy to start a riot here in the US. Our kids don't understand what's happening to their educations, nor do they understand the size and price of the can that was kicked to them last week by a bunch of politicians that are bought and paid for by some of the same corporations that are burning now in the UK, or being looted.


Has there been job growth in the UK in the past 10 years? How is your unemployment rate over there? There are rates of 20-40% for people of color here in the US depending on age/sex/education. The rate is 9% officially, but those statistics lie because once you wash out of unemployment benefits, you are no longer unemployed and are no longer counted, this is just one example of how that 9% is skewed.


America is a war machine. Enlist in the military, get out and work for a private contractor and make the big bucks is what young Marines are driven to. This I know from a direct conversation. Does the UK even have a war machine to save the kids in the ghetto? We fly drones out of New Mexico and have killed 900+ people in Pakistan last year, most of which were noncombatants. Considering these service people are following orders to murder, its legal because its sanctioned by a government?

 

[Fzero]

See how it goes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21-zkDlNUY

 

[edgex004]

This thread moves too fast, so this deserves it's own post:


In response to "Why work if you get paid for not working?"


"If there aren't enough jobs and no means of sustaining those excess folk who wind up without jobs. Why not resort to common thievery?"


Either way this sort of thing will happen. The only solution is to promote education of future generations and minimize the number of people who live off of other people's loss.

I take it that means a cull on investment bankers and politicians there

All joking aside, yes. Everyone's contributions to the society around them should be publicly scrutinized, not just the poor who wish to receive handouts. What do you think caused the 2008 economic crisis? When people are providing a service (investment/credit) which an entire economy depends on, which people's LIVES depend on, the service's actions need to be closely monitored and regulated.


Any company which is going to be financially backed by the people of a given nation must also answer to the people of that nation, not the other way around. Individuals who made millions off of sub-prime loans and the economic loss of countless others are scum in my eyes. Just as lowly as rioters and looters. There was no mob mentality encouraging their actions, just pure greed.

 

[RobFord]

@ Link


Unfortunately these riots have nothing to do with the marches against the austerity measures.


This all stems from bleeding heart liberals of the 70's, 80's and 90's that have deified children. Making it impossible for parents and teachers to discipline children. And unfortunately the kids know they are almost untouchable, this is the result.


The other thing I find crazy is all these people blaming the current government for these problems, they seem to forget that Labour put us in this situation in the first place. If they were back in power at the moment they would be doing exactly the same thing with the countries finances.


As to the solution for this part of me thinks just ARM the police and let them go an shoot anyone who is looting, I know a slightly extreme measure, but if this country hadn't hamstrung the police with all the enquiries into correct policing, then there might still be a little respect for the police.


Wow that turned into a bit of a rant, sorry for that.

 

[Prometheus]

^ Massive hits the nail on the head.

 

[Orion4874]

@ Link


Unfortunately these riots have nothing to do with the marches against the austerity measures.


This all stems from bleeding heart liberals of the 70's, 80's and 90's that have deified children. Making it impossible for parents and teachers to discipline children. And unfortunately the kids know they are almost untouchable, this is the result.


The other thing I find crazy is all these people blaming the current government for these problems, they seem to forget that Labour put us in this situation in the first place. If they were back in power at the moment they would be doing exactly the same thing with the countries finances.


As to the solution for this part of me thinks just ARM the police and let them go an shoot anyone who is looting, I know a slightly extreme measure, but if this country hadn't hamstrung the police with all the enquiries into correct policing, then there might still be a little respect for the police.


Wow that turned into a bit of a rant, sorry for that.

I never understood why your police are not allowed to carry firearms. The logic behind that is lost on me. What does an unarmed policeman do when he goes up against an armed criminal? Run for cover until CO19 gets there?

 

[edgex004]

For all my liberalism and support of the carrot, I do agree that the stick is necessary as well.


However I would rather support a more non-lethal stick of some sort.

 

[Link]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201189105816840954.html


Found this after my rant above.


@Massive: Wall Street and the Federal Reserve put you in the place for your austerity measures. Or did the UK banks not get bailed out too?

 

[DaMummy]

as sad as it is, this is quite true....

 

[MarioPandio]

This picture of the many offered as similar above, is quite clearly the odd one out and its from Britain.

Notice how in all the other pictures earlier, the actual populace is up and marching and actively engaged in a cause.


Notice here, they are all standing around a lone individual (I shant say 'person'), who is being sat on by 3 Police types and that the crowd here, isn't engaged in anything other than uploading snaps and video of the happy slapping to facebook! I respect the fact that they have captured this image of potential Police brutality on film (as there is still no legal and especially lawful prohibition of anyone filming a police officer in duty in public, or from their own premises etc) but they don't really strike me as being remotely interested, in whatever the cause, of 'whatever', is supposed to be happening here. How about you?

Edit :

"When we talk about militants, everyone talks about violence, but one of the baselines we have to talk about that people don't acknowledge is that empire is based on violence in the first place, and there is tremendous violence going on right now. We can't talk about any sort of militant resistance without acknowledging that brown people the world over are being bombed to serve empire." Derrick Jensen


I bring this to light because I'm not turning on FOX news (ring a bell UK people?), CNN, or MSGMGENBC for my news on this issue. But I recall teachers and students in the streets a few weeks ago due to cuts, increases in tuition, and other programs growing through "austerity" measures. Any chance some of this is rolling over, that people got nothing the last time they took to the streets, so this time they are sending a louder message to the man vacationing in Italy who didn't listen to them the last time they took the streets, were any of those in Parliament listening? Seems like something has their attention, and believe that it is thugs and useless menaces on society. That's what the media wants you to believe, they want you to have the discussion of how poor are these people who contribute nothing to the world. Understanding the real problem and explaining how the rich are much better off now than they were 10 years ago isn't going to be covered by Rupert Murdoch.





There has been NO job creation in the US in the last 10 years, none. Our kids are too fat and lazy to start a riot here in the US. Our kids don't understand what's happening to their educations, nor do they understand the size and price of the can that was kicked to them last week by a bunch of politicians that are bought and paid for by some of the same corporations that are burning now in the UK, or being looted.


Has there been job growth in the UK in the past 10 years? How is your unemployment rate over there? There are rates of 20-40% for people of color here in the US depending on age/sex/education. The rate is 9% officially, but those statistics lie because once you wash out of unemployment benefits, you are no longer unemployed and are no longer counted, this is just one example of how that 9% is skewed.


America is a war machine. Enlist in the military, get out and work for a private contractor and make the big bucks is what young Marines are driven to. This I know from a direct conversation. Does the UK even have a war machine to save the kids in the ghetto? We fly drones out of New Mexico and have killed 900+ people in Pakistan last year, most of which were noncombatants. Considering these service people are following orders to murder, its legal because its sanctioned by a government?

You wont be popular with such views Link but your correct on many fronts. Empire is violence, we are empire still and we're still screwin over most countries violently, either overtly or covertly since World War 1 in some way or other for corporate greed. There is a great deal of reason for backlash against our western nations and thus I am always amazed at the total lack of violence in return.


Your possibly wrong about the auterity measures having anything to do with the current looting but are perfectly correc that the tide of discontent amidst all sectors of society has risen greatly in the past few years. Anti-war protests had tailed off, yet the wave of protesting for economic reasons and job security, healthcare, unions, teaching, education fees, green issues, police budgets etc has skyrocketed. The UK never sees this kind of peaceful activity and still sadly it is largely still a let off steam valve and a nice day out to catharticly feel like you were a part of something, whilst accomplishing nothing. Mostly on pre-planned routes, with polite police escorts, who ensure your route is nowhere near any politician who may be in the country that day, with ear plugs in. The media does censor any news about protesting, editorial leans from advertising makes sure of such, and thus most of the disenfranchised London or elsewhere youth may well have gone unheard from in any capacity that the public would give a shit. Yes they are probably listening slightly more now, than they were on vacation. yet I doubt they are actually interested and if anything, it maybe exactly what they were after. (bear in mind the media were foaming at the mouth with government lines 2 years ago of a 'Summer of Hate' being on the cards, when students were uprising, occupying buildings against Israels actions, G20 protests and the death of Ian Tomlinson by Police brutality as he was 'kettled' (fenced in) by Police on his way home from work and not a part of the protests at all. They had been exposed for numerous agent provocatuer type actions already and the hoped for riots and response didn't occur, as the public didn't seem to buy the bait at the time. The media eventually let it drop, after more and more political deliberate data handling errors, expenses scandals and EU gravy train fiascos were rolled out and failed to alight the public but they had partially managed to wip up the general public


There's no upcoming manufacturing in the UK, like the US. We need to create jobs, or accept the jobs which do exist but which many confused white english see themselves above. UK kids are clearly not too fat to start a riot though (well there is the iPad incentive that after a jog away from the police, they can sit back on their tired ass again, as afterall, what got up must sit down) yet your probably right that they simply dont know what they could have achieved politically if this was actually about anything. Our politicians are indeed all bought and paid for by the corps and may they one day burn alongside them and yes the statistics on employment levels are easily skewed to say whatever sounds good prior to an election.


The UK is also a War Machine (once one of the biggest if you don't count Ghengis Khan and discard the possibility we still own the USA despite the Declaration of Independence, on the basis of a single Battle lost by an army that were ready to have another go with different tactics the following day (or the poodle lap-dog media semantics)) but we dont have such an Enlistment business thats as brazen. Although they do recruit at trade fairs, colleges, etc so in actual fact its about the same. I agree with Richard Dreyfuss here, in that as a parent (chav or otherwise) I would personally shoot any recruitment officer that attempts to get my children to sign up for any governmental nationalistic service.


The UK has also flown drones no doubt, or at least manned bombers to numerous countries recently and bombed and killed innocent civilillians in swathes. We've used depleted uranium, white phosphorous, napalm equivalents and turned a blind eye to microwave weaponry, aluminium daisychaincutter bombs and there more recent variants used in Lebanon by Israel and by ourselves covertly in Iran and the borders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria no doubt. We've allowed extraordinary rendition programmes to use our flights, house arressted, tagged, tortured, raided, brutalised and spied on individuals and whole communnities in our midst and abroad. All without any evidence of guilt. We've had our soldiers and contractors, kill, maim, rape and toy with innocence, while losing their own whilst following orders. All of this, stemming from the internationally illegal planning and waging of wars of aggression, in violation of Nuremberg Principles, Geneva Conventions and International and National War Laws and yes, following orders is sadly no excuse for our troops. As being sanctioned by a government to follow orders, isn't any excuse for following them and committing murder. The only real option troops have, is to go AWOL refuse to serve and spend in jail guilt free.

This thread moves too fast, so this deserves it's own post:


In response to "Why work if you get paid for not working?"


"If there aren't enough jobs and no means of sustaining those excess folk who wind up without jobs. Why not resort to common thievery?"


Either way this sort of thing will happen. The only solution is to promote education of future generations and minimize the number of people who live off of other people's loss.

I take it that means a cull on investment bankers and politicians there

All joking aside, yes. Everyone's contributions to the society around them should be publicly scrutinized, not just the poor who wish to receive handouts. What do you think caused the 2008 economic crisis? When people are providing a service (investment/credit) which an entire economy depends on, which people's LIVES depend on, the service's actions need to be closely monitored and regulated.


Any company which is going to be financially backed by the people of a given nation must also answer to the people of that nation, not the other way around. Individuals who made millions off of sub-prime loans and the economic loss of countless others are scum in my eyes. Just as lowly as rioters and looters. There was no mob mentality encouraging their actions, just pure greed.

If I've read you correctly, then I would agree. The 2008 crisis was engineered almost by loopholes the gambling investment bankers wrote into the system of usury of fiat worthless, unbacked currency they peddle us as worth our sweat equity. They laughed in private emails at how they were stitching us all up and when it all went tits up, they still wanted their fictional paychecks from the public purse they had already spent. They got it too, as the board put together to help solve the crisis was made up of the same criminals who invented the scams loopholes to begin with. They are still laughing, especially now.... 'too big to fail', tighten your belts etc etc. ....there are dis-organised riots now.

@ Link


Unfortunately these riots have nothing to do with the marches against the austerity measures.


This all stems from bleeding heart liberals of the 70's, 80's and 90's that have deified children. Making it impossible for parents and teachers to discipline children. And unfortunately the kids know they are almost untouchable, this is the result.


The other thing I find crazy is all these people blaming the current government for these problems, they seem to forget that Labour put us in this situation in the first place. If they were back in power at the moment they would be doing exactly the same thing with the countries finances.


As to the solution for this part of me thinks just ARM the police and let them go an shoot anyone who is looting, I know a slightly extreme measure, but if this country hadn't hamstrung the police with all the enquiries into correct policing, then there might still be a little respect for the police.


Wow that turned into a bit of a rant, sorry for that.

You right these riots have nowt to do with the prior protests. This is just looting.


Bleeding heart liberals and deified children? ....Personally my children aren't gods (there has never been any anyway) and I, like you, sound like your looking forward to giving your own a good clip round the ear "What's for dinner?" 'thwack!' "Shut up and go and mow the lawn!"


Then again I am crazy and all governments are responsible for the situation we are currently in and in fact you couldn't take a Pepsi Challenge with any of them as your quite right actually, whichever is in power would be doing exactly the same with the countries finances. Why? Because the countries finances belong to the International Bank of Settlements, as the Central Bank of all Central Banks, who loaned at interest, all the current worthless fiat currency to all the worthless national banks and the smaller banks thereafter and only the governments get the cash first and spend it, on the promise to pay it back with the interest from peoples taxes thereafter. The interest can never be paid as like 95 percent of all of it in supposed circulation, it was never printed and thus someone must default somewhere along the line.


The part of you that wants to arm the police and let them shoot anyone potentially looting, isn't extreme at all. In fact in this instance, I'd almost agree with you myself. Except that part of you, is the same part of me and the same part of them that are looting, in that it is a base part and it has bought into the desired response from the government and current times. They want you to despise the looters, wish t protect your security and property and taxes just s much as they wanted the kids to feel un-empowered and desperate to make a statement (I mean, nick some iPods cos thats wot they are sold they need to feel normal).


However you then say "if this country hadn't hamstrung the police with all the enquiries into correct policing, then there might still be a little respect for the police."


Respect is earned, not a given. The Police have been catching up since the Birmingham Six, Guildford 4, Annie Maguire, The Ricin Plot, Jean Charles DeMenezes, Forrest Gate chemical plot, Khaild Kaliq, Babar Ahmad etc etc etc Hell even the Beeston 4 (who at this point, even after the inquests and the biggest Police operations in UK history....(check it 'Operation Theseus' - (Theseus was hero in Greek mythology who undertook a perilous journey to free his country of various villains and monsters roaming it, dispatching them by using their own murderous methods against them) ) and the Official Inquests under Lady E.M. Buller, have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence that the 4 men from Beeston had anything to do with the July 7th events in 2005. Not to mention the outrageous attack on a pensioners car, where cops baton smashed the windows, jumped on the bonnet and cracked the windshield etc...


Their respect is earned. The public have not demanded enough enquires already, particularly those that actually get anywhere or are outside the remit of the Official Inquires Act of 2005 etc. Hamstrung, hardly and thats just their actual actions were talking about. Far worse is their in-actions. All cops take an Oath or affirmation to take their position in Public Office as a Servant of the Public, as do the politicians. Under said Oath they swear to uphold the Law of the land, equally. Said Lawful Oath prevents them from protecting politicians from the law if they have broken it, yet despite the overwhelming evidence, the police will not arrest the politicians and I mean all of them. They are all guilty of Treason, if they expect us to live under the same nonsense Protestant Christian given Laws as they also expect us to revile Sharia Law from Allah, then the police should have arrested the lot of them long ago. They wont, which is breach of the Policemans individual Oath (job vacancy right there), misprision of treason (failure to act on knowledge of treason being committed) worth 7 years or so etc. Frickin joke and no I wont swear on any bible etc Thats my truth, so help me anyone else thats paying attention.


As for the looters....yeah they are scum, with no agenda beyond filling their pockets. I was born in Barking Essex, I have a dogs name, my name is also the dogs of tyrants names and I am utterly sane when I tell you that we need to be careful what we wish upon our fellow citizens turned looters here, as 90 day detention became a political tennis match for a laugh and settled still firmly in the court of 28 days without trial (which was probably what they wanted to begin with) thats a long time to be broken into confessions, fitted up with evidence etc etc its also WAY outside any other countries lawful requirements. Were also the biggest surveillance state, keep car movement data via ANPR cameras for years on database, DNA profiles, kids fingerprinting in schools etc etc.


Did I mention I'm one of those crazy Labour people? "Arbeit macht frei"

http://english.aljaz...5816840954.html


Found this after my rant above.


@Massive: Wall Street and the Federal Reserve put you in the place for your austerity measures. Or did the UK banks not get bailed out too?

Thats a re-link of the an earlier article in the thread, on Al-jaz instead. Yes our banks were bailed out but they are still sinking as you cant bail something that holled fast enough and expect to reach the shore. So here's to swimmin with bow legged women...fare well

 

[Stradian]

If it were a genuine uprising by the people against the state, then NATO would have already sent UAV bombers to get rid of a few more almost out of date bombs ...

I can assure you, McCalster Army Ammuntion plant always keep Nato air arsenals fresh.


Anyway, I see this uprising took a dangerous and unproductive path. Sure they now have media coverage, just they do not realize that its the kind they proably dont want.


When any case, no matter how you see it, the end never defines the means.

 

[RobFord]

@ Link


Unfortunately we can't blame the federal reserve and wall street for selling off around 60% of our gold reserves when the economy was in boom and gold was at its lowest price ever recorded. We have the wonders of Gordon Brown as one of the worst chancellor this country has had in a very long time.


Yes, unfortunately we had to bail out our banks as well, to the tune of something like 64 billion pounds. I don't think that the US can take all the credit, sub primes, as far as I am aware, were not invented by the states, although I could be wrong, but that's for another discussion.


All quiet here in London tonight, unfortunately the rest of the country has decided to join in.

 

[Stradian]

Give it another 2 weeks and i´ll bet that another European captial or DC will go in to riot

 

[RobFord]

@ Mario


Sorry, but 'police brutality'? You've got to having a laugh. That is a pic of some police arresting someone who thinks they have the right go around and just take what they want. In my eyes any scum like that truly gets what they deserve. If it were a peaceful protest then yes the reaction captured is wary over the top, but given the events of the last few nights, the police need to be much more assertive.

 

[Nintendo]

I never understood why your police are not allowed to carry firearms. The logic behind that is lost on me. What does an unarmed policeman do when he goes up against an armed criminal? Run for cover until CO19 gets there?

More like...run for your life.

 

[Blue Protoman]

All quiet here in London tonight, unfortunately the rest of the country has decided to join in.

This won't end well.

 

[MarioPandio]

@ Mario


Sorry, but 'police brutality'? You've got to having a laugh. That is a pic of some police arresting someone who thinks they have the right go around and just take what they want. In my eyes any scum like that truly gets what they deserve. If it were a peaceful protest then yes the reaction captured is wary over the top, but given the events of the last few nights, the police need to be much more assertive.

I've added to my earlier post but I wish to say, that wasn't my photo and i don't think its from these riots iirc. I understood the OP of the photos, had upped a number of shots of differing protests / uprisings globally and had said how similar they were. I was simply saying this picture had no crowd interaction at all and was just 3 cops sat on someone. I admit that ain't police brutality (ever had 3 cops sit on you

?) and yes I was having a laugh but why all the happy camera snapping if it wasn't out of the ordinary?

 

[Asmo]

I recall teachers and students in the streets a few weeks ago due to cuts, increases in tuition, and other programs growing through "austerity" measures. Any chance some of this is rolling over, that people got nothing the last time they took to the streets, so this time they are sending a louder message to the man vacationing in Italy who didn't listen to them the last time they took the streets, were any of those in Parliament listening?

No.


The looters currently taking advantage of the situation come from a section of society that is actively disengaged from education. The attitude towards bettering oneself through education is, in the US (from my limited experience) markedly different - applauded, or at least respected. Among the groups we're watching here, being educated is regarded with suspicion. Wanting higher education is seen as being uppity ("think you're better than me?"), possibly also sexually deviant. Even "talking proper" marks you out for a beating in their ranks. They have no political agenda or affiliations. If they watch the news it'll be to see themselves. This is quite literally about taking advantage of a situation and bagging all you can while it lasts.

 

[Cas]

The Answer.......