It's yummy. But you can't eat it!

[oskda]

And most people that blindly back these kinds of crowdfunding campaigns are morons.

I have never taken part in crowdfunding. But on other side world is full of morons (not only for crowdfunding).

 

[Askarus]

Do you know what pisses me off mostly here.
All that stupid GPD Win talk.

Yea, it will come out some day, it has an Intel processor and can run native steam games.
That's it.
Don't make such a big noise about it.

Do you really want me to open up a new GPD Win thread every day?
No? So shut up.

 

[oskda]

So you're saying that you like the GPD Win because of apparently misleading marketing and pricing methods?

Excuse me, but I haven't said that. You are who is saying that, not me.

I explained I think GDP woin'tt sell for $500 after crowdfunding, and that IMO they are playing with the "buy-cheap-today-or-pay-more-tomorrow" feeling.

That company is a Chineese cheap products company.

I simply will not buy any computer system that cannot run Linux. The reasons for building a closed system that cannot run Linux are all bad things as they ....

Of course, I don't want an Intel Atom board for Pyra until that Atom supports Linux correctly (even open drivers for Intel GPU as I hope).

PD: I don't know if you are totally right about Atom and Linux. Some small Intel Atoms are made for phones (they support only Android), but others are made for full Windows (tablets, new-"netbooks", etc). For example Atom x3 is made for phones -even it owns a PowerVR GPU-, while Atom x5 and x7 is used in full Windows tablets and notebook/netbook/etc-type computer -and those Atoms have true Intel HD GPU-. I suppose this Atoms -they are quite "new" on market- have OR will have full Linux support, as they are designed even for PC, not for smartphones like Atom x3 and other very small Atoms.

 

[directive0]

And most people that blindly back these kinds of crowdfunding campaigns are morons.

After the Meet Earl Tablet I crowdfunded, yeah I definitely feel like one.

 

[EvilDragon]

It is hard to me to believe GDP will sell for $500 after crowdfunding campaign. It is a 5 inches Windows 10 tablet with fixed battery and a no-light keyboard. I think $500 would be a crazy price, for it. Pyra is different: more special, more custom-made, with more details (although with lower CPU/SOC).

Actually, the much higher price is mostly because of stuff like the removable battery and for using a keymat instead of mini-click-smartphone keys:
It saves A LOT of money in mold production and is also a lot faster.

The GPD XD has a VERY simple backside, the design (of the backside, not of the full unit) can be done within a few hours, there's nothing in there.
Why? Because there's no stuff like a stylus hole, a battery compartment, etc.

That's the reason most devices don't have replaceable batteries anymore. You save a lot of thickness (about 2mm) and the mold is incredibly simple.

That is a big difference: a crowdfunding campaign showing full and final machine, running, showing in a well-made video all it can do in real hard, is a big point.
Most crowdfunding campaigns only show renders and promises.

Well, Kickstarter doesn't allow any crowdfunding campaigns anymore when the prototype doesn't exist already... probably for a reason.

I don't think GPD will run into any issues they can't solve here (they have a lot more money available than just the campaign), but often campaigns which ONLY had that money available failed if a prototype didn't exist.
Many underestimate the time and costs of a prototype and the final product.

 

[levi]

A case in point: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/pyra-release-date-make-your-guess-here.74408/

 

[oskda]

Well, I don't prefer it over the Pyra, but there are definitely some major advantages of the GPD Win:

• It has the full 4 GB memory I'd like to see.
• Better CPU.
• More keys on the keyboard (but perhaps harder to use overall?).
• Possibly better Linux support since the GPU is Intel which usually has free drivers.

However, I still prefer the Pyra because the GPD Win is missing:

• 2 full sized SD slots (GPD Win has only a single MicroSD slot)
• Resistive touchscreen and built-in stylus
• Cellular 3G/4G modem and GPS

...

You forget the battery subject: Pyra has a removable battery whyle GDP has a fixed battery. This has two great implications:

1/ On Pyra you can multiply autonomy: you can carry a second battery if you need to do so (although I think only a few could need that with so big battery).

2/ When battery be old, and with reduced energy capability, on Pyra you can use a buy one battery and you change it easily (open door, insert new battery); while in GDP you have to disassemble machine and be lo lucky so it hasn't glued-parts or parts designed for to only closed but nor opened (some staples are designed so).

 

[EvilDragon]

Just a quick addition to the memory:
Memory needs power. Quite a bit of it.

Each DRAM we have on the Pyra eats 200mW, and we got 4, so that's 800mW just for the memory.
I wouldn't want to double the usage, I hope we can even disable half of the memory to save power, as for me, 1GB should be good enough in most cases.

 

[sepulep]

Just a quick addition to the memory:
Memory needs power. Quite a bit of it.

Each DRAM we have on the Pyra eats 200mW, and we got 4, so that's 800mW just for the memory.
I wouldn't want to double the usage, I hope we can even disable half of the memory to save power, as for me, 1GB should be good enough in most cases.

is that measured or the spec? does this hold even if memory is not used? (or does it go up from there if heavy ram accesses are done?)

 

[TrashyMG]

Just a quick addition to the memory:
Memory needs power. Quite a bit of it.

Each DRAM we have on the Pyra eats 200mW, and we got 4, so that's 800mW just for the memory.
I wouldn't want to double the usage, I hope we can even disable half of the memory to save power, as for me, 1GB should be good enough in most cases.

to be fair current draw doesn't scale exactly linearly... But it will be considerable more.

 

[oskda]

The Intel CPU of the GPD is green, so is it better than the OMAP5432? Why is that, more cores? What will it do better?

1/ Integration:

TI OMAP5 in Pyra is 28 nm.

Intel Atom x5 Z8500 in GDP is 14 nm.

So that Atom x5 has four times more integration (you have to compare square or those numbers because it is a suface with 2 dimensions).

Atom x5-Z8500 is a processor released recently, in 2015, while OMAP5 is available since 2013.

2/ OMAP5 has two 32 bits Cortex-A15 [1] cores at 1,5-1,7GHz.
Atom x5-Z8500 has four 64 bits x86 cores at 1.44 GHz (2.24 GHz burst frequency).

And I suppose Intel has a much bigger cache (Intel is very good at cache size and performance). It has 2 MB L2 cache.

I don't know how much energy they will need at full speed, but doing exactly the same work (same OS, etc), Intel x5 would waste less energy (4 times more integration, so it compensate x86 bad design).

The good part is that Pyra as upgradable CPU board, so in a future time we can see a much better CPU/GPU/RAM on it, while GDP will be forgotten.

[1]: OMAP5 has 2 Cortex-M4, a very small cores, but I suppose they will be useless with Pyra Linux distribution (they use a small ISA, so they can't run the same code Cortex-A15 can run).

 

[rygD]

I simply will not buy any computer system that cannot run Linux. The reasons for building a closed system that cannot run Linux are all bad things as they directly lead into the plan to have the customer be the product IMHO.

I feel this way, too. I don't mean only Linux, but intentionally tying the hardware to an OS, or a list of approved ones. If I am paying for it I want the hardware to allow me to do what I want with it.

While I have a problem with other methods of making the customer the product, or taking advantage of them in predatory ways, this takes things a bit too far. Usually I can accept that some people don't know any better. With something like this restrictions are pushed onto those that do know better, and want to make their own decisions.

I guess, in some sense, the blame isn't completely on Intel. Since I have never looked into this before, can you point me in the direction of information explaining why this is, or you can just tell me with the best of your knowledge. I would just like to know what's up with this.

 

[lukey]

Just a quick addition to the memory:
Memory needs power. Quite a bit of it.

Each DRAM we have on the Pyra eats 200mW, and we got 4, so that's 800mW just for the memory.
I wouldn't want to double the usage, I hope we can even disable half of the memory to save power, as for me, 1GB should be good enough in most cases.

Linux supports memory hot-plugging so with the right software you could Disable and Enable one half(if it can't switch from Dual- to Single-channel) of the Memory or each Ram Chip Independently(If the OMAP can switch between Single and Dual-Channel) on-the-go. Also those 200mW are the Maximum Rating if im Right?.(here the Ram Datasheet: http://www.intelligentmemory.com/fileadmin/pdf-datasheets/IM4G08-16D3FABG1.2-0821.pdf) For Standby you could put the Ram to Self-Refresh Mode. Which speed will the Ram have?

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

What's the point having unused RAM? It's not a better idea just remove it from the PCB?

 

[Askarus]

Could you please forget about the GPD Loose please.
We have the Dragonbox Victory.

And give more attention to this MJ Tablet.
This one is a real great piece of hardware and can work together nicely with the Pyra.

 

[TrashyMG]

What's the point having unused RAM? It's not a better idea just remove it from the PCB?

My guess it's to have your cake and eat it too... having the capability of having more RAM when you need it, but save power when you don't.

 

[Klumpen]

What's the point having unused RAM? It's not a better idea just remove it from the PCB?

The average customer wants to see higher specs, it doesn't matter if those have mostly disadvantages at some point.
People see 2gb vs. 4gb and instantly think that "moah is betta!".

 

[rygD]

After the Meet Earl Tablet I crowdfunded, yeah I definitely feel like one.

It is a pretty good idea though. I can see something like that being really popular.

 

[directive0]

It is a pretty good idea though. I can see something like that being really popular.

Yeah I definitely thought it had potential.

But I learned a powerful lesson. Wait until you see the prototype and even then, be weary.

 

[comradekingu]

Im hoping we can get 2 vs 4 vs 8 GB realworld numbers.