It's yummy. But you can't eat it!

[lukey]

I just tried out to modify the chart a bit, with more neutral, wikipedia-style coloring.
Right now I'm just at the preview page, because I'm not sure if I just should submit it without asking, the change is quite big.
Should I just submit it (as it could be reverted) or better copy it on my userpage at the wiki?

userpage.

This line in the Wiki

"Simultaneous mouse+KB+buttons"

Does the Pyra also allow you to use the dpad and other controls also ?, becuase the line above only suggests that in mouse mode you can use mouse, keyboard and face buttons

Maybe we should mark it with "(Proper HW implentation)". On the Pyra, the Left Nub is for Mouse Buttons(Or center click is used) and the Right for mouse. Dpad is directional Keys of cource(UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT), the Gaming Buttons are PgUp,PgDn,Home,End. The Nub modes can be changed by software, for example Left Nub Joystick and Right nub still Mouse.

 

[vcoleiro1]

If the Pyra can use Dpad and other game controls in Mouse mode, then thats would I would say. "Game Controls accessible in mouse mode" Yes/No

Proper HW Implementation means nothing to anyone.


Also , I sent you a PM about an addition.

 

[Luke-Jr]

Just a guess, but probably libre (free as in freedom, not beer).

Yeah, that's what I meant as well. Intel GPUs tend to have free software drivers...

Concerning those who say, that the GPD Win might be better concerning Linux support. The same might be said concerning the Windows x86 tablets, but as far as I know, it isn't the case.

Only because those tablets are locked to Windows AIUI. And the GPD Win folk explicitly said switching to Linux will be supported...

 

[Blue Shadow]

OK, so I just made a suggestion.
Colors are just used for question for clearly existing/non-existing features, if their existence is not relatively obvious (e.g. Ram,CPU).
I also tried to use pastel-colors instead (wikipedia color scheme).

for Free software system(no without yes), Microsoft Windows x86 compatibility(yes without no) and Video output (standard vs non-standard) im not sure about the coloring.

I also removed the color at "Simultaneous mouse+KB+buttons" and mentioned the switch, as GPD advertised it as a feature. Otherwise we may have to include a row "switch to change between joystick and mouse mode" for more neutrality.

https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Blue_Shadow

 

[WizardStan]

Working WiFi prior to board mass production - check that one off of the "Don't Repeat Pandora Mistakes" list.

Devil's advocate: The Pandora's wifi was tested as well, and every one that ED sent out had minimal connection tests as well. My original Pandora had great wifi, my 1Ghz pretty good, enough that I wouldn't have thought to try to test for problems. Not to say that there is a problem, just to say that not seeing a problem isn't the same thing as there not being one.

 

[kwi]

At least the BIOS is closed, U-Boot isn't to my knowledge. Except if they are using coreboot/libreboot, which i don't think.

LibreBoot definitely not since LibreBoot won't run Windows. CoreBoot as far as I remember supports Windows with the SeaBIOS Payload but CoreBoot isn't free in the same manner as LibreBoot.
I personally love my LibreBoot-flashed Lenovo T400 - never ever have seen anything running that quick through BIOS checks.
Don't know if that is an option for Pyra in the long term though.

Greetings

 

[rygD]

If you want to avoid scary or aggressive colors, something I don't personally care about but can understand to avoid people saying the comparison is biased, why not just bold the things that are a hard yes and do something like italics for no or something. It also makes it quick to look at without really reading it.

 

[lukey]

LibreBoot definitely not since LibreBoot won't run Windows. CoreBoot as far as I remember supports Windows with the SeaBIOS Payload but CoreBoot isn't free in the same manner as LibreBoot.
I personally love my LibreBoot-flashed Lenovo T400 - never ever have seen anything running that quick through BIOS checks.
Don't know if that is an option for Pyra in the long term though.

Greetings

Ok then GPD Win can't be fully Open/Free at all. U-Boot, which we use on the Pyra and Pandora (and many other ARM Devices use it) is Open/Free i think. To bad that the FSF wants the Default OS to be Free from Binary Blobs and such things to give it the FSF Hardware Certiicate

 

[Haraldur]

The price, probably the main reason for a lot of folks to prefer the GPD WIN should be added to the comparison chart IMHO.
The Intel CPU of the GPD is green, so is it better than the OMAP5432? Why is that, more cores? What will it do better?

The price should be excluded, as it is likely to fluctuate (who know what GPS will do), not to mention second-hand sales etc.. Plus, the Pyra price is not yet settled.

Is the Intel CPU better? Yes, if I had to guess. More cores is relevant. I would prefer to be wrong, so please prove it.

Does the Pyra also allow you to use the dpad and other controls also ?, becuase the line above only suggests that in mouse mode you can use mouse, keyboard and face buttons

Pyra and Pandora (would) have no "mouse mode" -- it is possible to use the mouse (nubs) and all other buttons/keys simultaneously.

Intel GPUs tend to have free software drivers...

On GNU/Linux. On Windows, I think not.


Regarding the Free/Libre question: I think it is better to consider the default OS provided, which most people would use. After all, it is not completely impossible for free PowerVR drivers to be created, or for the GPD WIN BIOS to be liberated, just highly unlikely.

 

[Luke-Jr]

Ok then GPD Win can't be fully Open/Free at all. U-Boot, which we use on the Pyra and Pandora (and many other ARM Devices use it) is Open/Free i think. To bad that the FSF wants the Default OS to be Free from Binary Blobs and such things to give it the FSF Hardware Certiicate

Most "fully open/free" systems don't include the BIOS/UEFI, and clearly having a closed UEFI is better than a closed GPU driver.

Regarding the Free/Libre question: I think it is better to consider the default OS provided, which most people would use.

There's no point even comparing it, in that sense. After all, Windows is never a free system. The only comparison to make is how free it is running Linux.

After all, it is not completely impossible for free PowerVR drivers to be created, or for the GPD WIN BIOS to be liberated, just highly unlikely.

But we're not talking about what is theoretically-possible-but-unlikely, but what is easily and readily practical.

 

[levi]

Most "fully open/free" systems don't include the BIOS/UEFI, and clearly having a closed UEFI is better than a closed GPU driver.

That depends why you want an open/free system really. In the extreme cases, if all you care about is security, and the trustworthiness of your machine, you really don't want to be beholden to an unreviewable binary blob as your first executable that brings up your system, that could theoretically patch your bootloader to patch your kernel and mess with your system. On the other hand, if you just care about functionality, then sure an open GPU driver where fixes are more often needed is more important to you.

 

[Swordfish II]

I agree - and I just thought of an additional advantage to it. It could shorten the inevitable conversation with the US's TSA regarding this in-between laptop & phone sized device. As laptops get smaller and phones get bigger, I could see a TSA inspector deciding to call it a "laptop" because it is clam shell.

Doubtful, never had TSA ask me to pull my Pandora from my bag. Plus let's be honest, I have seen TSA training procedure (I work for DHS with more training than TSA), it is worthless.

 

[Plume]

Only because those tablets are locked to Windows AIUI. And the GPD Win folk explicitly said switching to Linux will be supported...

No, the tablets are not really locked to Windows, as far as I understand. Changing the boot procedure doesn't seemed that hard, somebody did it. The only problem is, that this represents some serious kernel development. Somebody managed to modify a Fedora distribution to run on certain of these tablets, but had to stop because maintaining the patches was too much work.

Having a horribly patched Ubuntu 15.10 available could also be interpreted as "switching to Linux is supported". However, this isn't, in my opinion, a solution I would call satisfying.

 

[Alperoot]

GPD guys will have a great time while trying to install Linux with Windows 10. Microsoft doesn't want YOU to use any other OSs.

 

[Askarus]

GPD guys will have a great time while trying to install Linux with Windows 10. Microsoft doesn't want YOU to use any other OSs.

The Microsoft Surface is open for Linux by default.

 

[ekianjo]

The Microsoft Surface is open for Linux by default.

I'm not sure what you are saying.
It;s not. You need to install a specific hacked kernel to make most things work on Surface 3. Surface 4 is not at all supported at this stage (most features do not work!).

It's only working because some Linux guys did a lot of work to make it work in the end. It's certainly not a regular distro you can install on it and expect it to work like a charm.

 

[Askarus]

I'm not sure what you are saying.
It;s not. You need to install a specific hacked kernel to make most things work on Surface 3. Surface 4 is not at all supported at this stage (most features do not work!).

It's only working because some Linux guys did a lot of work to make it work in the end. It's certainly not a regular distro you can install on it and expect it to work like a charm.

All I wanted to say it has an open bootloader and Linux works at least a lot better than on any random x86 Tablet.

 

[oskda]

The GPD WIN's final price will be about $500 so there you go. It doesn't even have a real price advantage.

It is hard to me to believe GDP will sell for $500 after crowdfunding campaign. It is a 5 inches Windows 10 tablet with fixed battery and a no-light keyboard. I think $500 would be a crazy price, for it. Pyra is different: more special, more custom-made, with more details (although with lower CPU/SOC).

You can buy Windows 10 tablet with 10 inches screens for little more than $200. So using a 5 inches screen and adding a keyboard doesn't make $500 sense for me.

Of course, if you say: "I offer this for $300 today... if you wait, tomorrow it will cost $500" you attract more people.
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GPD Win is only earlier because their campaign runs on renderings... well, our first renderings were out loooong ago

That is a big difference: a crowdfunding campaign showing full and final machine, running, showing in a well-made video all it can do in real hard, is a big point.

Most crowdfunding campaigns only show renders and promises.

 

[TrashyMG]

Most crowdfunding campaigns only show renders and promises.

And most people that blindly back these kinds of crowdfunding campaigns are morons.

 

[Grench]

It is hard to me to believe GDP will sell for $500 after crowdfunding campaign. It is a 5 inch W10 tablet with fixed battery and a no-light keyboard. I think $500 would be a crazy price, for it. Pyra is differente: more special, more custom-made, with more details (although with lower CPU/SOC).

You can buy Windows 10 tablet with 10 inches screens for little more than $200. So using a 5 inches screen and adding a keyboard doesn't make $500 sense for me.

Of course, if you say: "I offer this for $300 today... if you wait, tomorrow it will cost $500" you attract more people.

So you're saying that you like the GPD Win because of apparently misleading marketing and pricing methods?

Yes, I like the SoC in the GPD Win - that isn't a secret here as I campaigned for considering the Intel SoC options. That said, I have yet to have seen ANY Bay Trail or Cherry Trail mobile SoC units capable of properly running any stock Linux distribution with full-system compatibility. Until that gets fixed, i.e. the infrastructure surrounding those SoC systems becomes open to Linux, I'm not interested.

I simply will not buy any computer system that cannot run Linux. The reasons for building a closed system that cannot run Linux are all bad things as they directly lead into the plan to have the customer be the product IMHO.