Is There Any Plan To Have Commercial Games On Pandora Like Gp32 And Zo

[Rayek]

I personally don't foresee any big players developing games for this system. Really, SEGA and Capcom? SNK? I don't think so...

Attach rate is paramount in the gaming world, developers really pay attention to that. And if someone releases a console that's expected to have absolutely NO attach rate, not to mention no "Games" at launch, and an entirely successful future planned without the help of third-party commercial software, that is partly based on its capability to emulate entire back catalogs of consoles? No. Nonono. Not only that, but the GPL will get in the way of anyone in the big camps developing any commercial software for the system. ID Software gets it, but I doubt SEGA or Capcom will.

All commercial releases, if any, will be from small players. As was true for the GP32, the GP2X, as will be true for the Pandora.

(Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome to have the new Sonic appear on my Pandora, magically, but I highly doubt it.)

 

[Ravnos]

What does the GPL have to do with commercial games?

 

[Tom`]

What does the GPL have to do with commercial games?

Because most big companies' "IP" lawyers fear it like the plague (more or less literally, due to lots of FUD spread by Microsoft and others, for being "viral")...

 

[Ravnos]

What does the GPL have to do with commercial games?

Because most big companies' "IP" lawyers fear it like the plague (more or less literally, due to lots of FUD spread by Microsoft and others, for being "viral")...

Wrong. The correct answer is "nothing". The GPL has nothing to do with commercial games because it only affects software that uses other GPL-ed software. So unless these game companies are linking to the kernel or whatever, the GPL has nothing to do with whether or not we get commercial games.

 

[icurafu]

DRM is ta best a hassle and at worst a complete failure on all other platforms. Why are we trying to figure out a way to create unnecessary restrictions on an open system? Do you really think that saying "Look! We have DRM!" is enough to convince a major software house to port their product to the Pandora platform?

Any DRM scheme will be broken eventually. Several years and millions of dollars were spent creating the "unbreakable" AACS and BD+ copy protection systems. They were both cracked within months of release. Those who are predisposed to pirating software will find a way to do it no matter what.

If you want to commercially distribute games on the Pandora (or any system), you will have to accept the fact that some people are going to use your product without paying for it. The best way to minimize this is not to treat all your customers like potential thieves. Instead, give people a reason to support you and your software. Accept that users have the option of paying or not paying and give them a reason to want to pay.



crackable or not, DRM can work. STEAM for example is going very well these days. It provides a balance between security and flexibility.

However, you could also argue that it would be more successful if DRM was not used, so that you could copy it here and there. In Valves defence, they probably wouldn't have any big games for sale if they did that.

I'm all in favour for creating a DRM based system for protecting software and am certain that this is the first step in assuring developers get revenue from their commercial creations.

 

[Tom`]

Wrong. The correct answer is "nothing". The GPL has nothing to do with commercial games because it only affects software that uses other GPL-ed software. So unless these game companies are linking to the kernel or whatever, the GPL has nothing to do with whether or not we get commercial games.

This is true, but irrelevant. I think you'll find that there are very few companies who really understand how the GPL works. You can't ignore that fact when considering why there aren't more commercial games for Linux even on the PC.

 

[kagato]

The lack of functioning DRM hasn't stopped their being a commercial games market for PDAs and smartphones. Just have a look at 4Pockets.com or Handango (whose site, it must be said, currently borders on nonfunctional).

You're not going to get Rockstar or Psygnosis releasing games on the Pandora, but we all know that's not going to happen anyway. But there's nothing stopping independent developers releasing games for $10-$20, just as they do already.

 

[yosh64]

hey

Hmm, haven't read everyones messages here yet.

Anyhows, personally it doesn't bother me at all if there are no commericial games by massive studios or whatever, well most of their games don't really seem to interest me these days.

I just hope there are alot of cool original games by the homebrew folks, well I hope to make some cool games for it anyhows.

Although I wouldn't mind if folks decided to try sell some of their games, I'd probably get them if they were any good.

cyas

 

[icurafu]

I'm a PDA gamer with a massive account of games at clickgamers. (I prefer this over handango anyday) and a lot of games use the windows mobile name or the symbion device ID.

Basically, User gives device ID which is combined with a private key and SHAed. The hash gets sent as a hex code. (or small parts of it)

When the user enters it when the game starts, the program uses some device interface to get the device ID. The user enters the hash and the game uses the same private key, also stored inside the application to be combined with the pirate key and SHAed and compared with the inputed keys.

This is the point that most key _generation appz are created. Typically the cracker looks for when the hex entered is compared with something.

To be more secure, the validation can be done on a webserver which is easy as anything to put together and ensures that key generators do not have to be created.

However, the next problem arises. Now you have to connect to the internet to start the application. To make the user happy, you can put a simple function at the start of the code to ensure that the deviceID never changes. However, a cracker can look for this as well and change it so that it never appears to change.

In the end, games are cracked way to easily unless they use DRM, but atleast for a community small enough such as PDA games, or some obscure console like the Pandora, the simple key registration method seems to work.

 

[Ravnos]

Wrong. The correct answer is "nothing". The GPL has nothing to do with commercial games because it only affects software that uses other GPL-ed software. So unless these game companies are linking to the kernel or whatever, the GPL has nothing to do with whether or not we get commercial games.

This is true, but irrelevant. I think you'll find that there are very few companies who really understand how the GPL works. You can't ignore that fact when considering why there aren't more commercial games for Linux even on the PC.

If you think that the GPL has more to do with the lack of Linux games than its minuscule market share, you're out of your mind. Or perhaps I missed the massive Mac gaming market that's sprung up.

Seriously, do you think that IP lawyers are really that stupid? Do you really think that people who've spent years of school studying IP law and their careers working with it are really unable to understand the GPL? But yet you somehow have a deep understanding of it. Funny how that would work.

 

[Svartalf]

This is true, but irrelevant. I think you'll find that there are very few companies who really understand how the GPL works. You can't ignore that fact when considering why there aren't more commercial games for Linux even on the PC.

I think you'll find that it's not the GPL but rather the Windows SKU sales figures coupled with the debacle the Linux community had with Q3:A where the community couldn't be bothered to wait for the Linux SKU to become available and "patched" the Windows one, only selling some 200-400 units worldwide (even though the ratio of Linux users to Windows users was closer to 2:1 worldwide...). Since studios and moreover publishers pay most of their attention to sales figures, it's the reason they're not producing titles and they're asking rather insane royalty deals of publishers like LGP.

 

[lubidog]

This discussion is pointless for me. If I want to buy commercial games I'll buy them for my PSP or DS.

This, as has been stated is an OPEN SOURCE system. That's the beauty of it. Sure, a few games might be released commercially and I hope a few are. But I want great emus, great homebrew (which I will donate to) and excellent apps for the UMPC part. Not some EA game which I could play on the PSP...

Won't happen anyway, thank God.

 

[Chip]

crackable or not, DRM can work. STEAM for example is going very well these days. It provides a balance between security and flexibility.

However, you could also argue that it would be more successful if DRM was not used, so that you could copy it here and there. In Valves defence, they probably wouldn't have any big games for sale if they did that.

I'm all in favour for creating a DRM based system for protecting software and am certain that this is the first step in assuring developers get revenue from their commercial creations.

Steam (and Xbox live, and WoW, etc) work because they're not DRMing the game so much as the service. You could easily pirate any of the Steam games by themselves, but without the Steam network, what's the point? So the reason they succeed is because they're doing what I suggest - giving people a reason to want to pay. They provide a service for paying users which instills a value above and beyond the software itself. The best part is, unlike Macrovision and other disc-based DRM, it's pretty much transparent to the user. Online validation is not a hassle when you're connecting to an online service anyway for multiplayer gaming.

 

[PoisonedV]

I belong to several cracking groups, and I know for a FACT that nothing is uncrackable. By the way, Xbox live and steam and the like, ARE possible to pirate online service, you just need to know where to look. DRM is pointless and just a nuisance to users, and a fun challenge for the cracking community.

 

[sindbad]

However, some developers only feel safe with DRM in place. Which is perfectly possible on the pandora.

I personally welcome commercial games.

 

[Geuben]

I personally welcome commercial games.

+1

Any software made for the pandora is a good thing..right?

 

[icurafu]

Good point Chip. From the view of offline usage; I own a dozon or so games from steam that are not online. If I'm not online, I go to offline mode and it all seems to work. I'm sure there is a limit. Plus I share my games with friends, as I would a book, which is good. I know it's against the T&Cs. So there are ways to exploit it, but it still protects the content from mass sharing while leaving the user with a seemless feeling.

RSA did a great job on the Wii. The encryption will not be broken within the life of the console, but people will still find signed application that allow you to execute other unsigned. With the Zelda exploit, that's just the case.

Cracking is a very interesting hobby and there are some great jobs about there that cater for that kind of person. There are tons of examples of security apps that can not be broken these days and even heavily used long standing ones.

 

[Tom`]

If you think that the GPL has more to do with the lack of Linux games than its minuscule market share, you're out of your mind. Or perhaps I missed the massive Mac gaming market that's sprung up.

Seriously, do you think that IP lawyers are really that stupid? Do you really think that people who've spent years of school studying IP law and their careers working with it are really unable to understand the GPL? But yet you somehow have a deep understanding of it. Funny how that would work.

I don't claim any special understanding. And there are many more Mac ports of commercial games than Linux ports. Obviously the small market share is a major factor, but there are plenty of companies that don't understand the GPL, in spite of their high-powered lawyers - Gigabyte, D-Link, TomTom...even GPH, these are just cases of companies violating the GPL, which surely these lawyers, with their enormous amounts of education, should have warned them about? How many more just avoid GPL software altogether? It's not just games, there isn't much commercial software for Linux in general.

 

[Prophet]

I personally welcome commercial games.

+1

Any software made for the pandora is a good thing..right?


I agree.

I would rather spend a little money on small independent devs who make an interesting game (or even some useful productivity app) for Pandora, than on mainstream games that already have a huge audience (i.e. DS, PSP). BUT to sell, it would have to be fairly high quality and make good use of Pandora hardware - because Pandora will have tons of emulators and homebrew, so people will need a good reason to spend money on software. Just being honest. But I am one who WOULD spend a little money on commercial Pandora software (should such a thing exist) as I did for GP32 and Zodiac in the past.

 

[PoisonedV]

I too would be fine spending money on a game, if it's quality, I did with all 3 commercial GP2X games that I know of, and I will get most on the Pandora if they are worth their price.