Is Everything On Track For Early April Production?

[mindlord]

It's not always as simple as that. It could need a hardware fix. But fingers closed for software....

It would help those who are asked to make an informed decision. Perhaps Notaz would be kind enough to enlighten us.

 

[fishybawb]

raw wifi is working, thus the chip is working.

It depends on what you describe "working".

It's currently SDIO and that is causing a world of problems.

Unfortunately no.

Yeah, notaz's post is the most worrying.

 

[Grench]

In my opinion it make no sence to delay the delivery (even of all 4000 units) because of a software error. Especially if it's only that WiFi works with 30 kb/s which is of course not the best rate but more than enough for surfing.

I don't think you quite understand how slow that really is. What they're saying is that the Pandora's Wifi is operating at less than 1/1000th of 'normal' 802.11g speeds.

30kb/s - that is kilobits per second. Not kilobytes. See sub-dial-up speeds. It is 0.030 Mb/sec. My home internet connection downloaded the 10.04 Ubuntu beta (~550MB in about 7.5 minutes. So, I'm used to surfing somewhere in the range of 1.2MB/sec or 9830.4 kbps. That same transfer of on CD's worth of contents at 30kb/s would take 5.46 hours. I.e. it isn't even close to keeping up with a modern connection. Even my connection only runs about a quarter to half the speed of my 802.11g home network.

Putting a USB phone modem into the back of it, dialing an ISP, surfing back to your own network server would be faster than going through the wireless to your own in-home media server.

So, offering the dongle to people in the first 1000, so they can get the first 1000 out the door is perfectly reasonable. The big question for me is if the fix to the next 3000 is going to be on a hardware or software basis.

Thank you for keeping us informed!

 

[EvilDragon]

notaz is working on the kernel, but not deciding with us.

Well, the module initializes and talks to the board, that's what we know for sure.

One thing I can promise: If it REALLY turns out to be a hardware fault, you can be sure we'll either fix it for you or exchange your board for free as soon as we can afford it (maybe after the second batch, when we got some money back).
So either way, you won't be screwed. (I remember I had to fix over 200 gp2x First Editions as they had a flickering LCD...)

We just wanted to make an offer that you can use WiFi right from the start, that's why we want to offer you a small WiFi dongle and your Pandora NOW.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Is it a hardware or software issue with the driver?If its software we can get software updates later right?
If its a hardware problem,thats a very different matter.I would take my pandora with a wi-fi software issue
gladly

 

[xopher]

The wi-fi issue reminds me of dis: LULZ

 

[emil10001]

Now + dongle for me.

I am wondering about this wifi thing. IIRC, there were tests that proved that the hardware was done properly and works, right? So, the wifi problem should be software only. I have faith that as long as it is a software only issue, that the community will be able to fix it, even if it takes a while.

It's not always as simple as that. It could need a hardware fix. But fingers closed for software....

Right, but my question was hadn't they already tested the hardware to validate their design? I remember earlier iterations where nobody was really saying that wifi was a problem, aside from not having a decent front-end to manage it. I have followed the current situation, and I'm wondering:

a) if the dev team things that this is only a software issue, or if there might be hardware problems as well?
b ) if it is only a software issue, then why not just release it as-is and let us help fix the problem?
c) if it is possibly a hardware issue, where do you go from here? I am not really sure that I would feel comfortable accepting a device with a known hardware flaw that hampers core functionality of the device. I wouldn't have a problem with it being a software issue, but it's not exactly easy to roll-out a hardware patch a couple of months down the line.
d) if it is a hardware issue, why didn't we hear about this when the initial testing was done? IIRC, we were told that everything was good, and all that needed to be done was a front-end. (I realize that this was a few versions ago, but if the hardware works, then the hardware works, right?)

EDIT: @ED - that seems like a reasonable solution to me. I would be perfectly happy having the hardware in my hands plus the dongle and then getting it exchanged months or a year or so down the line when it gets worked out. I might even pay extra for it to be done sooner.

 

[borgqueenx]

notaz is working on the kernel, but not deciding with us.

Well, the module initializes and talks to the board, that's what we know for sure.

One thing I can promise: If it REALLY turns out to be a hardware fault, you can be sure we'll either fix it for you or exchange your board for free as soon as we can afford it (maybe after the second batch, when we got some money back).
So either way, you won't be screwed. (I remember I had to fix over 200 gp2x First Editions as they had a flickering LCD...)

We just wanted to make an offer that you can use WiFi right from the start, that's why we want to offer you a small WiFi dongle and your Pandora NOW.

"NOW" is a love potion. i just took a drop.

seriously: i think "now" means about 2 months since the cases have little delay and im on place 3000 in the que?

 

[quadomatic]

I'm no expert, but based on EvilDragon's post, since the module starts up and can communicate with the board, it seems like it's not likely to be a hardware issue, but it's not 100% certain that it isn't.

So, everyone should probably tone down the questions about whether it's a hardware or software issue, since the best possible answer has already been given.

 

[crade]

They obviously are not sure if the issue with the wifi is surmountable through software or not. It seems like they are being more than fair about it either way.

 

[VRAndy]

Probably going to have to throw in something like this with the first ~1000:

Woo! Free WiFi dongle!


I sure hope I'm in this first thousand.

 

[stepp]

I sense a bit of dispair in EDs post, something is wrong hardware side i reckon, if thats the case i dont even want to guess how long before they revise and change the boards, 6 months?

Nothing seems to go right for this project.

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm no expert, but based on EvilDragon's post, since the module starts up and can communicate with the board, it seems like it's not likely to be a hardware issue, but it's not 100% certain that it isn't.

The problem is, you can never be 100% sure if it's hardware or not when you don't have the software properly working yet. As we don't want to lie to you, we surely cannot promise
All we know is that the module gets everything according to specs (Michael checked it) and does initialize and work so far (though slowly). It does report the Signal strength and Link Quality correctly, so the antenna also seems to be fine

However, we have no money to pay a team to get WiFi working. And to not let you wait for too long, we decided we'd go this way.
You can either wait until we completely fixed it, but we cannot tell how long you will have to wait yet.
Or you can get it right away including a dongle so you get a full functional Pandora including a minimal WiFi dongle which surely won't get in your way - starting delivery in April. And if there really is something wrong (as said, there's always a chance), we offer to fix it.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

hopefully there will be an official blog post later to clarify things.Fingers crossed that its hardware only.

 

[Prometheus]

ED, I think that the proposed offer is perfectly reasonable, and I applaud all of you for it.

I know that I'm in the first 1000, and whilst I don't want to get ahead of myself before you make the blog post with more information, I'm fairly sure that I'll take you guys up on the offer.

I wish you the best of luck, and I hope it turns out to just be a software fix.

 

[Alec]

notaz is working on the kernel, but not deciding with us.

Well, the module initializes and talks to the board, that's what we know for sure.

One thing I can promise: If it REALLY turns out to be a hardware fault, you can be sure we'll either fix it for you or exchange your board for free as soon as we can afford it (maybe after the second batch, when we got some money back).
So either way, you won't be screwed. (I remember I had to fix over 200 gp2x First Editions as they had a flickering LCD...)

We just wanted to make an offer that you can use WiFi right from the start, that's why we want to offer you a small WiFi dongle and your Pandora NOW.

So are you saying that if we choose to get the Pandora now, we will get a Pandora with a dongle, and if the problem was in hardware you will let us exchange the board (and the dongle?) for a new board?

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

I'm no expert, but based on EvilDragon's post, since the module starts up and can communicate with the board, it seems like it's not likely to be a hardware issue, but it's not 100% certain that it isn't.

The problem is, you can never be 100% sure if it's hardware or not when you don't have the software properly working yet. As we don't want to lie to you, we surely cannot promise
All we know is that the module gets everything according to specs (Michael checked it) and does initialize and work so far (though slowly). It does report the Signal strength and Link Quality correctly, so the antenna also seems to be fine

However, we have no money to pay a team to get WiFi working. And to not let you wait for too long, we decided we'd go this way.
You can either wait until we completely fixed it, but we cannot tell how long you will have to wait yet.
Or you can get it right away including a dongle so you get a full functional Pandora including a minimal WiFi dongle which surely won't get in your way - starting delivery in April. And if there really is something wrong (as said, there's always a chance), we offer to fix it.

Will this be the first thousand preorderers only or including the other 3 thousand people who ordered.who get their pandora now

 

[hch]

h34r:

thread moving too fast

 

[EvilDragon]

I sense a bit of dispair in EDs post, something is wrong hardware side i reckon, if thats the case i dont even want to guess how long before they revise and change the boards, 6 months?

Not despair...
It could be that someone has an idea which works after a good nights rest and it could also be that it takes quite a while to debug everything.
It's someting that cannot be known, and all we want is to be open about it and treat you fair.

Nothing seems to go right for this project.

I doubt it's much better for internal projects from big companies... but they most likely have more money to fix things faster and they don't need to tell anyone about it

Some might remember the GP2X F100 First Edition... a gaming console which had a flickering LCD, an almost unusable stick (which couldn't be fixed until they released a new version) and a headphone jack that broke when you touched it.
The Pandora is fully working: We got a complete gaming console with USB, working LCD, keyboard, cool DPad, Nubs, etc. Everything is working already. And as we want to give you working WiFi, we'll include a stick.

 

[Prometheus]

Some might remember the GP2X F100 First Edition... a gaming console which had a flickering LCD, an almost unusable stick (which couldn't be fixed until they released a new version) and a headphone jack that broke when you touched it.

I wasn't a member on the forums at the time, but did lurk, and did have one (it bricked itself, and Craig replaced it with one from the next batch). I felt so bad for you guys, having to replace the problematic units.