How to calculate a price for the Pyra

[Franko]

My nose and the right side of my face is a bit numb, but I remember this page.  _wb_, I owe you a lot.  I've used your port of AutoCAD a few times.  Actually, the PANDORA has been the best tool that I ever could have wished for.  I wanted ED to pay you...via credit card...it's complicated and then I had a stroke.  Fuck.  Anyway, I'm "back" in a way...and I've ALWAYS loved my Pandora.  It's functional.  It has more uses than you can imagine.

Oooops....I'm on the wrong page.  Administrator?  Move my heap o' crap....

 

[_wb_]

My nose and the right side of my face is a bit numb, but I remember this page.  _wb_, I owe you a lot.  I've used your port of AutoCAD a few times.  Actually, the PANDORA has been the best tool that I ever could have wished for.  I wanted ED to pay you...via credit card...it's complicated and then I had a stroke.  Fuck.  Anyway, I'm "back" in a way...and I've ALWAYS loved my Pandora.  It's functional.  It has more uses than you can imagine.

Oooops....I'm on the wrong page.  Administrator?  Move my heap o' crap....

You mean OpenSCAD? (http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=openscad.wb) Thanks, but no need to pay me -- if you really want to get rid of money, don't send it to me, but send it to the OpenSCAD devs (http://www.openscad.org/), the Pandora preorder fund, or an organization I like, like the CWI or the FSF.

Anyway, welcome back and I hope your recovery goes well!

 

[Franko]

Thank you, _wb_

You're a class act.  This PANDORA community loves it's Developers.  Sometimes the users can't articulate that emotion profoundly enough.

 

[DakotaRiley1997]

Price needs to be calculated in a way that is relatively cheap for what the product is worth and how the user will enjoy it. Price it competitively with smartphones and tablet, and you may have a bestseller. Price it too high and it won't sell. The nintendo 3ds struggled until it's price drop. the ps vita is not selling because of price. Expensive technology dosen't sell, unless you are alienware or apple. So please ,think of us consumers that can't afford very expensive tech, and put it into the price range of $200 dollars. I would use it and not get a nintendo console. thanks.

 

[WizardStan]

put it into the price range of $200 dollars

Selling at a $300+ loss is not the way to make money.Most console manufacturers sell at a loss and make up the difference through game sales, licensing, and merchandise. They also have economies of scale, being able to produce things cheaper because they're making them by the millions: EvilDragon will be making a few hundred at a time.

If all goes as expected, it will be priced comparably to cell phones, but not the kind you get from your carrier: a phone with a contract is subsidized by the plan. Looking at phones purchased outright without contracts you're looking at between $500 and $800 for a good one, and that's probably around how much the Pyra will cost, and it will be worth every penny.

The nintendo 3ds struggled until it's price drop

It struggled because of marketing and lack of games. The price drop was the kick-off to a massive marketing campaign that was highly successful. It wasn't struggling because of the price.

 

[rygD]

Furthermore, The Pyra isn't really for the average consumer.  It is designed for particular types of people who want the unique combination it provides, and are willing to be involved with the community, or at least be patient enough to allow things to happen over time, if they don't do it themselves.  Even if performance and specs were similar at the same price as some smartfones, which they will be to some degree, the Pyra probably wouldn't sell in the millions, or even hundreds of thousands.  Most consumer devices today are designed to be disposable, with a very short lifetime.  They are also designed to be small (even with a massive screen) and sleek, etc.  There are discussions on how to get it closer to that, but ultimately it will be what ED can afford to make it.  Millions of dollars aren't being invested in it to be one of those devices, probably because there isn't that much to be spent on it, it will not sell enough to recover that investment, and the money that is spent is being used as efficiently as possible to make it the best it can be with the limited funds.

There are much better choices for those who want something cheap to play games on and have everything just work as soon as they get it.  Most of the people who go for products like that aren't looking to poke around behind the scenes in the software and hardware.  Many who want something that they can experiment with go for other options, such as older, lower priced hardware, or Raspberry Pis and the like.  We should appreciate that things like the Pyra and Novena are being made, even if they aren't as cheap as consumer products.

 

[klapse]

500€ is relatively cheap for what it offfers, for people who value what it offers.

 

[DrHAX]

500 USD is a bargain for such an adaptable platform. It IS a pocket PC, and thus that's its greatest selling point to me. Also with a resilient community that will support the device software wise and here... I came here for the games.... but stayed her for the debate on case screws :huh:

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Is this estimate for the one with the telephony circuit? Or the one without?

 

[iArnold]

Did I read that correct? First you have your profit and have a price of 400 and because geeks in the USA only want to order from a geeksite that wants 15 to 20% profit, you throw up the price by 100 euro's for everybody? And nobody complained?

There must be a better sales channel overseas, I know one for sure.

 

[TrashyMG]

Did I read that correct? First you have your profit and have a price of 400 and because geeks in the USA only want to order from a geeksite that wants 15 to 20% profit, you throw up the price by 100 euro's for everybody? And nobody complained?

There must be a better sales channel overseas, I know one for sure.

What post are you ranting about? It's been over 7 months since the last reply on this thread so it's hard to tell.

 

[Grench]

Did I read that correct? First you have your profit and have a price of 400 and because geeks in the USA only want to order from a geeksite that wants 15 to 20% profit, you throw up the price by 100 euro's for everybody? And nobody complained?


There must be a better sales channel overseas, I know one for sure.

What post are you ranting about? It's been over 7 months since the last reply on this thread so it's hard to tell.

I think he was replying to the first one.  It does appear that ED would be making a profit of around 35% off of units sold directly and 15% off of units sold at wholesale prices to other re-sellers who would then make 20% or so.  Apparently iArnold considers this to be an injustice of some sort.

Personally, I think at those rates, ED is already giving us all wholesale pricing.  ED -deserves- to make money on these.  They would simply not exist without his efforts.  Yes, that includes making money on the units sold in bulk at wholesale to other distributors - who should then be able to sell those at a profit.  Consider it ED discounting the units to distributors for buying in bulk AND offloading having to deal with the end customer - which is expensive in itself.  Many manufacturers solve this by simply refusing to sell directly to consumers.

Really, if you think about it, ED has a monopoly on this type of device - there is nothing else to compete with.  He can charge whatever he wants and the rest of us simply have to decide whether to pay that or not.  

The fact that he's keeping costs and profit down - and being up front about it - is relatively without precedent in a device manufacturer.  The prices laid out are actually quite reasonable for the design, manufacture and hardware costs involved.

 

[WizardStan]

35% profit is nothing. He should be making a lot more.

 

[pmprog]

Really, if you think about it, ED has a monopoly on this type of device - there is nothing else to compete with

Didn't SNESFAN post ages ago saying he was aware of a potential competitor?

Not that we know what's happening with that though

 

[alanjf]

Did I read that correct? First you have your profit and have a price of 400 and because geeks in the USA only want to order from a geeksite that wants 15 to 20% profit, you throw up the price by 100 euro's for everybody? And nobody complained?


There must be a better sales channel overseas, I know one for sure.

What post are you ranting about? It's been over 7 months since the last reply on this thread so it's hard to tell.

I think he was replying to the first one.  It does appear that ED would be making a profit of around 35% off of units sold directly and 15% off of units sold at wholesale prices to other re-sellers who would then make 20% or so.

Does that 35% incude shipping costs (if, for example, someone like myself living in the US wanted to order a Pyra directly from ED) ? I don't do much over-seas shipping so I have no idea how much it would actually cost to ship something like a Pyra that far (from Germany I think?) and it would be nice to have some idea. Thanks.

 

[Grench]

Did I read that correct? First you have your profit and have a price of 400 and because geeks in the USA only want to order from a geeksite that wants 15 to 20% profit, you throw up the price by 100 euro's for everybody? And nobody complained?


There must be a better sales channel overseas, I know one for sure.

What post are you ranting about? It's been over 7 months since the last reply on this thread so it's hard to tell.

I think he was replying to the first one.  It does appear that ED would be making a profit of around 35% off of units sold directly and 15% off of units sold at wholesale prices to other re-sellers who would then make 20% or so.

Does that 35% incude shipping costs (if, for example, someone like myself living in the US wanted to order a Pyra directly from ED) ? I don't do much over-seas shipping so I have no idea how much it would actually cost to ship something like a Pyra that far (from Germany I think?) and it would be nice to have some idea. Thanks.

If it included shipping costs, that would be a cost not profit.  You can get on ED's shop and see what he charges to ship a Pandora to the US - it isn't cheap.  This is one of the advantages of ordering through a 'middle man' or local supplier.  The local supplier will order dozens or hundreds of units at a shot and have ED bulk ship them (less expensive) then handle stock and order flow and shipping overhead and customs - which takes a cut of their 'profit'.  They will likely charge you for shipping from the supplier to you - but that would be something much less than it would cost you to ship it from Germany yourself.

Shipping is a direct and variable cost.  It's probably pretty inexpensive for ED to ship to a Germany address and much more expensive for him to ship to a US address.  If he were to charge a flat rate or give 'free' shipping by bundling a shipping cost into the product price, it would in effect be having his local customers subsidize the shipping to his US customers - and that isn't 'right' either.

Having customers pay the variable shipping rate on top of the purchase price is a fair method.

 

[iArnold]

Yes it was the first post. And I didn't realize it was already almost a year old sticky, just payed attention to febr.

Don't understand me wrong, I perfectly agree that ED should make enough profit!!

But I think real geeks that know about the Pandora can order from ED himself, though I see handling of customs/shipment/guarantees could be more of a hasle ED can do without, so having a third party is probably a better idea.

But while saving pennies left and right in his story this point is almost sneaked in casually "and therefor I have to charge more to everybody too" and we're talking about a fifth of the total cost, a 100 euro, making the price from high but perfectly acceptable, to "mmm that is a lot of money, can do many other things with that too, no pyra ".

 

[Grench]

 "mmm that is a lot of money, can do many other things with that too, no pyra ".

But none of those things can do all of the things that the Pyra will be able to.

A generic or even branded handheld game console can play games, but isn't going to be very good for email, web browsing and other computer tasks and isn't going to get mobile phone data.

A Chromebook can be made to do computer tasks, but lacks the gaming controls and won't fit into your pocket.

An $800 cell phone (off contract price for a Galaxy Note 4) can do a lot of tasks while mobile, but has no game controls or keyboard and has much more limited storage capabilities.

An analogy would be pocket knifes.  There are simple 1 blade knives, there are small and large Swiss Army type knives, there are Multi-tools.  Think of the Pyra as the fully capable multi-tool that fits in the space/volume of a small Swiss Army knife.

Much like the Pandora, if you only need one aspect of the device, then there might be other devices that better fit your needs.  If you need half or more of it's capabilities, then there is nothing that competes with it.  That capability doesn't come 'cheap'.  Not everyone needs all of the capabilities and not everyone can afford one.  It -is- a niche product built in low volumes - it does not get the benefits of 'economy of scale' that you see in most cell phones and consumer game consoles, yet it is estimated that it will cost less than a high end phone.  

For those of us who plan to use it's capabilities beyond playing games, it's looking to be a bargain.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

You forgot one super important factor of the PYRA.  That is, its OPEN!  No anoying rooting or jailbreaking needed.  You own it 100%

 

[levi]

But I think real geeks that know about the Pandora can order from ED himself, though I see handling of customs/shipment/guarantees could be more of a hasle ED can do without, so having a third party is probably a better idea.

Except you can't get a Pyra from ED for cost or anything like it. The only way to do that is to become a distributor, and to do that you'd have to order hundreds of Pyras. I wouldn't overestimate how much trouble it is for ED to send Pyra's worldwide - bear in mind he already runs a worldwide web shop selling all sorts of hard-to-get pieces, and he's sent Pandoras everywhere until Link and Eki stepped up to handle the US and Japan respectively.

But while saving pennies left and right in his story this point is almost sneaked in casually "and therefor I have to charge more to everybody too" and we're talking about a fifth of the total cost, a 100 euro, making the price from high but perfectly acceptable, to "mmm that is a lot of money, can do many other things with that too, no pyra ".

Well, that's your choice at the end of the day. How much profit do you think the manufacturer made on your last phone? That they don't announce the manufacturing costs makes it hard to be sure, but the estimates for these sort of things indicate a lot more than a fifth of the cost being the money to recoup R&D costs and a bit of profit on top.

Logically, ED can't be seen to undercut his overseas distributors, else they won't succeed. It also might be worth observing how the price of the Pandora has dropped since ED started selling it, as parts become cheaper to obtain.