How Much Was Raised For The Dev Fund?

[Loon]

I'm assuming it'll take time to compute, and time that at the moment, he doesn't have. He probably doesn't have the total amount scribbled down somewhere.

That doesn't sound right to me. Surely the only way to deal with contributions to the dev fund would be to have a separate bank account or at the very least a meticulously kept record of such contributions.

Unless of course it's just resting in another account.

</father ted mode>

 

[Monk]

I'm assuming it'll take time to compute, and time that at the moment, he doesn't have. He probably doesn't have the total amount scribbled down somewhere.

That doesn't sound right to me. Surely the only way to deal with contributions to the dev fund would be to have a separate bank account or at the very least a meticulously kept record of such contributions.

Unless of course it's just resting in another account.

</father ted mode>

Uh, no, that wouldn't sound right... if we assume that GBX and OpenPandora and whatever ED's company is called etc. etc. are reasonably modern (i.e. using standard business technology from say mid 1980's onwards) then they'll have order processing/accounts/stock control etc. on computers. In which case it's a matter of probably SEVERAL seconds to run the query even if the funds have not been placed in their own account.

A more likely excuse reason for not answering would be that Craig doesn't have the figures from EDs shop, so could only give the answer for GBX/OpenPandora UK sales without contacting ED. Who is, more-or-less, in the same time zone as Craig and I. If Craig and ED don't pool such financial information, that could cause a delay of several minutes (and potentially complicate how the dev "fund" {funds?}) is {are} managed).

There is also the matter of OpenPandora's business/financial information being THEIR business/financial information and not ours. A piffling matter, to be sure!

 

[Trevsweb]

its most likely going to be kept secret...
as A people might start bragging "i contributed 7.94% of the total ammount!"
B Criagix wants to use this as an incentive for good work, getting something unique to the panda. but how can you be fair and share the proportion of the funds?
if he keeps it secret then the funding to a specific project can be relative to the work, rather than project leaders demanding a percentage cut of the total.

tbh i didnt put any money in the kitty just yet. i will but i figured the money i paid for the pandora goes towards its development and when the device is out i will pay for the development of the apps i like.

i wonder if we will have any control via voting or a competition on where the funds go.

 

[SNESFAN]

A people might start bragging "i contributed 7.94% of the total ammount!"

I wouldn't see this as a bad thing at all. I personally didn't contribute yet (will after I find out what this is funding bounties/ports/new IP's etc) but I can see no wrong there being bragging rights on amount you contributed. Healthy competetion when the outcome benifits everyone is never a bad thing.

 

[Squidge]

Yes, the information is most likely on computers, but how do you know that the computer Craigix uses for viewing the forums when he has time has access to the accounts? He may need to a computer in a different building to get that information. Regardless, I doubt its going to take several minutes, including contact Ed. It could take several hours, or days, as Ed may not have the information to hand either.

It's all guesswork, and it's unlikely that we are going to be told such information even if they both knew the exact figures. Money motivates people and if they said "We are going to have a coding compo and the prize is the £25 in the kitty", it doesn't sound as good as an unknown figure which could be substantially higher.

 

[Trevsweb]

It's all guesswork, and it's unlikely that we are going to be told such information even if they both knew the exact figures. Money motivates people and if they said "We are going to have a coding compo and the prize is the £25 in the kitty", it doesn't sound as good as an unknown figure which could be substantially higher.

exactly what i tried to say... its a kindve bullseye style "lets see what you could've won" situation.
always loved seeing the annual GBAx compos im glad i'll be finally using a system that is relivent to the competition.

 

[Monk]

I didn't say it did, actually. I myself don't have access to my accounts on the same computer that I access forums for - I would have to go into a whole other room to turn that on! Likewise, IIRC OpenPandora is said to operate from 26 Meadow Road, Newcastle Upon Tyne. Not a million miles from craig. If it takes days for him to access the order processing data then that's probably got more to do with the fact that he doesn't get out of bed until the afternoon than the distance between his accounts PC and his Internet Access PC. Which might also explain some of the other delayed responses we've had over the year/s.

http://www.ifwecanyoucan.co.uk/Entrepreneurs/Craig-Rothwell/my-story

I rarely rise before noon, and I get to travel the world as a business expense. I enjoy doing what I want whenever I want to. I suppose I can’t complain!

As for taking several days - I DID say that I was assuming business and technical capabilities circa mid 1980 or later. If GBAX and Pandora aren't up to that level then yes, I can see how it could take hours or even days to produce (and therefore, perhaps, not be worth the effort until something is to be done with the money). Personally I would not have thought them THAT backward in their business operations, but heck - Craig's self-taught, maybe they are as disorganised as you claim!

Their kitty is certainly known to be over £25. Heck, I'm pretty sure my wife donated £10 (or whatever the default donation was) on my instructions a year ago. But as I said, it's business/financial data that is OpenPandoras, not ours. We aren't owed the answer.

There is also the matter of OpenPandora's business/financial information being THEIR business/financial information and not ours. A piffling matter, to be sure!

Not having any idea of the overall kitty size could indeed make coders more - or less - interested in getting involved.

 

[Tensuke]

Don't worry, it's still there and we have a lot planned for it.

I think that basically sums it up...Don't worry about how much is in it, just be glad it's there.

 

[Asmo]

its most likely going to be kept secret...
as A people might start bragging "i contributed 7.94% of the total ammount!"

This was sort of already officially planned - on the original order pages, it was stated that there would be a list of people who had contributed - in order of the amount they had contributed!

 

[midna25]

If we are going to treat the dev fund as a reward then I think some of that money should go to whoever gets a N64 emulator running at full speed

<fawful>BADNESS!!!</fawful>

Bad thing to say regarding emulators. Developing an emulator, and building on that to make it full speed are two very different things. IIRC, the latter is often easier than the former. It's like saying we should send £50 to the DedalusX64 devs, and nothing to strmnnrmn. (If you are in the PSP scene)

Mmph.

 

[Loon]

Sorry for the little bump, but I'd really like one of the Pandora team to answer the question of how much was raised by voluntary contribution to the dev fund?

Or at the very least have an explanation from one of the team as to why we're not getting an answer.

Here's a few reasons why I think we should get an answer.

1) It should be incredibly easy to answer the question.

2) The money raised by the dev fund was raised by voluntary contributions from the community, in my opinion this money does not belong to Craig and the team, they are merely custodians. This is not commercially sensitive information such as the amount taken in sales, cost of parts etc.

3) By knowing the figure the community can make suggestions as to what should be done with the fund. If the figure is disappointingly small we can have a fund raising drive, if we've got loads in the kitty we can put up some serious bounties for projects desired by the community such as full speed N64, driver development etc.

4) If Craig answers the question it would prove that he is not pathologically incapable of giving a straight answer to a simple question, come on, think about it Craig, every time someone says you never give a direct answer to a simple question you could just point them towards this thread. How useful would that be?

The success of Pandora will rest upon hardware and software, and I and thousands of others really want the project to be a success. If the software side can be helped along by a well managed, community focussed, open and transparent Dev fund then we'll all benefit.

What I'd like to see after the dust has settled from the Pandora launch, would be a website dedicated to submitting contributions for, and suggesting uses of the dev fund.

Note to the team : Hope this hasn't been too much of a rant, don't feel you've got to answer straight away, I'd be perfectly happy to wait two months for an answer, providing you give an indication that this will happen.

 

[Monk]

Good post. Intelligent, to the point without being sharp. Some of my own observations, if I may?

Or at the very least have an explanation from one of the team as to why we're not getting an answer.

Ah, now, actually I don't think that's AT ALL unreasonable phrased that way. The OP team ought easily to be able to say why they won't give the info, clearly.

Here's a few reasons why I think we should get an answer.

...

2) The money raised by the dev fund was raised by voluntary contributions from the community, in my opinion this money does not belong to Craig and the team, they are merely custodians. This is not commercially sensitive information such as the amount taken in sales, cost of parts etc.

I tend to agree with you there, though the OP team (or forum member taken at random) may not see it that way - for example, most charities you donat to (or that I donate to, at least) give only the vaguest indication of what the money will be used for (mostly to pay the people involved in collecting the money, I suspect). On the rare occasions that they give an idea of how much has been raised (and some of them DO that, really - just look at the various televised fund-raising events like "Children In Need" or "Live AID" etc.) it's used as a promotional gimmick/tool - a measure to improve on, or an indication that other people are giving so much why are YOU such a miserly buzzard (and, I am sure, other subtle manipulations).

3) By knowing the figure the community can make suggestions as to what should be done with the fund.

AFAICS they wouldn't want this as they already have their own ideas about what to do with the funds, and Craig already tosses these out onto the forum from time to time to see how popular or unpopular they are. They certainly don't seem to want to be told what to do with the money though, but to take our opinions into account when making their own minds up. So this might be an argument AGAINST telling us how much we ponied up.

4) If Craig answers the question it would prove that he is not pathologically incapable of giving a straight answer to a simple question

This presupposes that Craig WANTS to be thought of as someone who gives an honest answer to an honest question, flying in the face of available evidence. Craig enjoys notoriety, for whatever reasons - he's a bit like one of those old rock stars who enjoys being well known for trashing hotel rooms. He's "different"

Note to the team : Hope this hasn't been too much of a rant, don't feel you've got to answer straight away, I'd be perfectly happy to wait two months for an answer, providing you give an indication that this will happen.

Didn't come across as a rant to ME at all. Although the opening line had me predisposed to interpret it as such, the full body of the text shows a polite, reasoned (if perhaps flawed) attempt to get a simple answer to a simple question. Not many people can sustain the general forum activity long enough to ask the same question twice!

 

[sold]

No offense, but who cares? Is it not enough that the software, along with the device itself, is being made? Would you have made a contribution unless you were getting what you wanted in the first place (eventually)? The dev fund is not a scam. The only reason you want an answer is because you think it is. It will allow for the OP team to make donations to the programmers that are complimenting the hardware, and possibly also be used as prize money for competition winners. And really, doesn't it make more sense than the bounty thing people were willing to pay into?

I don't mean to sound harsh. Is there another reason why you need to know how mush money the dev fund has generated? If so, please elaborate without flaming

Or flame away if you like. Either way, you should have a good reason why you contributed in the first place if you didn't trust the project.

EDIT: The only reason I may seem to be coming across as kinda harsh is, noone forced you to donate to the dev fund.

 

[Loon]

Hi Sold, based on your responses to this thread I suspect that English is not your first language. So I'll be gentle with you.

The dev fund is not a scam. The only reason you want an answer is because you think it is.

Errrr, no I don't, in any way shape or form. See points 1 - 4 in my last post for why I want an answer.

Is there another reason why you need to know how mush money the dev fund has generated? If so, please elaborate without flaming

I don't need to know, but I'd really like to know. See points 2 & 3 in my last post for why.

 

[Exophase]

No offense, but who cares? Is it not enough that the software, along with the device itself, is being made? Would you have made a contribution unless you were getting what you wanted in the first place (eventually)? The dev fund is not a scam. The only reason you want an answer is because you think it is. It will allow for the OP team to make donations to the programmers that are complimenting the hardware, and possibly also be used as prize money for competition winners. And really, doesn't it make more sense than the bounty thing people were willing to pay into?

I don't mean to sound harsh. Is there another reason why you need to know how mush money the dev fund has generated? If so, please elaborate without flaming

Or flame away if you like. Either way, you should have a good reason why you contributed in the first place if you didn't trust the project.

EDIT: The only reason I may seem to be coming across as kinda harsh is, noone forced you to donate to the dev fund.

It's natural to want to know how much money it collected, because that's an indication of good things to come. It also shows whether or not you were part of something potentially worthwhile. It'd suck if you contributed $50, only to find out that only $200 was contributed in total, to be distributed amongst a few hundred people and therefore made basically worthless. If none of that sounds right to you then at least chalk it up to basic human curiosity. Is being this accusatory really called for?

 

[magicman5421]

...I'd be perfectly happy to wait two months for an answer...

oh jesus dude, now it's never gonna happen.

 

[Pleng]

Here's a few 2) The money raised by the dev fund was raised by voluntary contributions from the community, in my opinion this money does not belong to Craig and the team, they are merely custodians. This is not commercially sensitive information such as the amount taken in sales, cost of parts etc.

I tend to agree with you there, though the OP team (or forum member taken at random) may not see it that way - for example, most charities you donat to (or that I donate to, at least) give only the vaguest indication of what the money will be used for (mostly to pay the people involved in collecting the money, I suspect).

To be fair, it's not quite the same. If people had simply donated the money to OP then yes, but it was a dedicated fund with a specific name and a (pretty unspecific) 'cause'. While when you donate money to a charity the use for it is unknown, charities within themselves can have specific 'funds' where the purpose of the fund is more clearly specified. A good example would be the Disasters Emergency Committee, who launch individual campaigns to raise money for specific international disasters.

I personally feel donating money to a company is a very bad idea as there's always a possibility of conflicts of interests.

 

[SNESFAN]

To be fair, it's not quite the same. If people had simply donated the money to OP then yes, but it was a dedicated fund with a specific name and a (pretty unspecific) 'cause'. While when you donate money to a charity the use for it is unknown, charities within themselves can have specific 'funds' where the purpose of the fund is more clearly specified. A good example would be the Disasters Emergency Committee, who launch individual campaigns to raise money for specific international disasters.

I personally feel donating money to a company is a very bad idea as there's always a possibility of conflicts of interests.

+1 rename the "dev fund" to the "feed the pandora foundation"

 

[sold]

Hi Sold, based on your responses to this thread I suspect that English is not your first language. So I'll be gentle with you.

The dev fund is not a scam. The only reason you want an answer is because you think it is.

Errrr, no I don't, in any way shape or form. See points 1 - 4 in my last post for why I want an answer.

Is there another reason why you need to know how mush money the dev fund has generated? If so, please elaborate without flaming

I don't need to know, but I'd really like to know. See points 2 & 3 in my last post for why.

First of all, english is my first language. Second, I may have come across as a little suspicious of your reason for asking about how much the dev fund has raised, for which I apologise. And third, I'd appreciate if you could keep in mind that I made the offending post after running on nothing but coffee, cigarettes and scotch for 24 hours, so not my best constructed post ever

I should have just said Craig and the others will reveal all when the time is right. Or something like that

 

[Loon]

First of all, english is my first language. Second, I may have come across as a little suspicious of your reason for asking about how much the dev fund has raised, for which I apologise. And third, I'd appreciate if you could keep in mind that I made the offending post after running on nothing but coffee, cigarettes and scotch for 24 hours, so not my best constructed post ever

No worries mate, apology accepted. Having perused some of your other posts I reckon we're very much on the same side, i.e. wanting the Pandora to succeed at all costs.

P.S. Love the sound of the CCS diet, must give that a try some day.