Release Hotfix 6 - Alpha 1 released

[peca]

I have positive report I power up my Pandora after few hours and it still have about same battery state as when shut down. So this weird power consumption when power off is gone.

 

[dsleaf67]

I'm a little worried about the freezing in low power. Nothing in my changes should have caused that. All it does is change default "start charging at this voltage" and "stop charging at this amperage" values.


It might also take as much as half an hour after reaching 100% to completely top up the battery before it stops charging, but if you're charging overnight and it never goes out, that could be a problem. Is this just in regular, or have you tried in low power mode? If it stops charging in low power (and doesn't freeze) but doesn't stop charging in full power, it is just a case of the Pandora drawing more power than anticipated keeping the charging amperage from dropping below the threshold. This threshold was tested by a few people, but I guess not enough samples to confirm it works for everybody. I'll recalculate the value and send it to ED.

It seems to stop charging form me in both modes (red charge light goes off) however as reported it seems froze upon starting back up from low power and seems keyboard no longer works when come back after charging when in full power but lid closed. This was only tested in mini menu.

 

[EvilDragon]

The low-power freezing bug is likely to be unrelated, I've seen it reported before.

True, but it seems to happen more often with the new charger settings.


Hmm... probably because it didn't switch off most of the times before - so it freezes when it switches off?


Doesn't seem to happen in normal power mode... so I guess it's related to the CPU speed?


Could it be it freezes when the CPU speed is set too low and charging is being stopped?


Any way I can simulate that (by manually switching off charging with software)?


The second issue that's puzzling me is why it still doesn't switch off for some users and keeps charging when at 100%.


WizardStan: How does it determine when it should switch off? Is that a different indicator than the one that reports the %age?


Would it make sense including a second test into the daemon from skeezix that also shuts down and starts blinking when the battery is below 5%?


Some test that stops charging when the battery indicator is at 100% and restarts when the battery indicator is at 92%?


With both together, it should work for everyone.

 

[WizardStan]

WizardStan: How does it determine when it should switch off? Is that a different indicator than the one that reports the %age?

It uses the built in End Of Charge sensor of the charge chip to trigger an interrupt. When the charge chip detects the battery is full, it sends the EOC interrupt signal which stops the charging to prevent the battery from puffing.


The important thing to note about lithium batteries is that 100% is not the same as full. 100% just means 4.2 volts is reached. After 100% is reached, the charge chip will still attempt to put a little more energy into it, topping it up to the point of being completely full, but it does this by reducing the amps being pushed into the battery, slowly trickling energy in. As more energy goes in, the amount of amps that can go in gets lower and lower. It can never reach zero though: there's energy coming out of the battery as it is being used, and even if it were charging just a standalone battery, there would still be heat lost. So there's a threshold: when the amps the chip can stuff into the battery drops below this threshold, it signals the battery is full, fires off the EOC interrupt which stops the charging.


The problem with this is that if the Pandora is drawing more power than the threshold, charge rate will never drop below that threshold so it keeps charging. That's why it triggers end of charge sooner when in lower power, because it is that much further below the threshold, it's easier to top up the battery. The original value was too low for almost everyone, even in low power mode it was drawing above the threshold, so I calculated the estimated power draw and increased the threshold accordingly. That seemed to be good for everyone with my original charge hack, but I guess still not perfect for everyone. Slight differences in resistances of traces on the board is probably leading to ever so slightly more energy consumption in some systems over others: to put into perspective, a 4000mah battery that lasts 10 hours in one Pandora will probably last 10 hours and 12 seconds (or 9 hours and 48 seconds, 12 second difference either way) due to these minor variations.


I'll send you the value to increase it further. I could just increase it to the maximum safe value. That'll definitely work. At worst it'll decrease the battery life by a few minutes because it stopped charging before the battery was completely full. Can't increase it too far, though, otherwise it'll actually prevent charging in low amp situations such as USB. Already it'll struggle to charge via USB if the the port is only providing 100ma. If it is increased further, you will not be able to "charge" off anything less than a 500ma USB socket. I put a quote around "charge" because at 100ma it's really more like "slower discharge".


Increasing the efficiency of lid closed and low power modes would also be useful: the default value would have been perfect if the battery could provide about 50 hours of downtime.

 

[thatgui]

Is this just in regular, or have you tried in low power mode?

only in "regular" Mode (both times), with lid closed, WiFi off (in both cases the battery indicator showed 20 ~ 30% before plugging in).


Will try it again today during work with WLAN on, lid open and starting at 55%.


Edit:


Reached 100% more than an hour ago, but charge - LED is still on.


Edit#2 (~ one hour later):


Charge - LED went out a couple of minutes ago -> success (Maybe my nights aren't long enough )


Edit#3:


I can't use my Keyboard anymore :blink: Lid was not closed (althoug screensaver kicked in couple of times) and it was in normal mode the whole time.

 

[dsleaf67]

Edit#3:


I can't use my Keyboard anymore :blink: Lid was not closed (althoug screensaver kicked in couple of times) and it was in normal mode the whole time.

This is what I also, reported a couple of posts up.


FYI, I did more testing on this and it happens every time. Also, it won't go into low power mode either in addition to keyboard not working. I have tested keyboard in abiword, then switched Gui to XFCE tested and back with no luck. Also, tested in 'Pandora Input' app and just game controller, Hold and LID register nothing else.


Finally, I plugged in external keyboard and it worked fine, but not internal before or after.


Looks like I'll have to shutdown and startup again. Not sure if charging will reengage either when it gets below 90%(currently testing this before I restart).


Edit #1: Seems it was still charging even though charge light went off. After I realized I couldn't go to low power while I was still testing this charge during full power mode, I plugged back in at 97% and went back up to 100% after a few minutes. And charge light is still off.


Edit #2:Grammar, and Going to reboot now and I hope this helps trouble shooting as freeze after charge in low power obviously doesn't help much since you have to reboot.

 

[EvilDragon]

So it seems the Pandoras don't freeze actually, but somehow keyboard and power button stops working after some time?


And if Power-Button doesn't register anymore, you can't get back from Low-Power-Mode.


Probably when it stops charging, hmm?


Interesting... I wonder if there's a way to reset the keyboard when it stops charging?

 

[dsleaf67]

So it seems the Pandoras don't freeze actually, but somehow keyboard and power button stops working after some time?


And if Power-Button doesn't register anymore, you can't get back from Low-Power-Mode.


Probably when it stops charging, hmm?


Interesting... I wonder if there's a way to reset the keyboard when it stops charging?

No no Ed, this is only charging in full power mode this happens. Mine still freezes when charging in low power mode. also, updated above post about still charging.


Edit: Thats what I was looking for too, was a way to reset keyboard but that doesn't explain low power switch or charging without the charging light coming back on when I plugged it back in. Does it even cut charging or is the LED turned off but it runs into a problem actually stopping the charge process?

 

[EvilDragon]

No no Ed, this is only charging in full power mode this happens. Mine still freezes when charging in low power mode. also, updated above post about still charging.

How do you know it freezes in low-power mode?


Imagine you go into low-power mode and the powerswitch doesn't register anymore (as you said this happens when you're NOT in low-power mode).


The only way to switch from low-power mode to normal mode IS using the powerswitch - and that one stopped registering.


I think it's the same issue here, it doesn't actually freeze, but inputs stop working.


This could be found out using SSH logon.

 

[thatgui]

This could be found out using SSH logon.

if you give me a guide on what todo, I would gladly help


Is it possible to revert to the old search behaviour of minimenu (via a value in the config file) ?

 

[EvilDragon]

This could be found out using SSH logon.

if you give me a guide on what todo, I would gladly help

Well, you could enable Dropbear (startup settings), make a WiFi connection and use ssh on your linux PC or putty on your Windows PC to logon to the Pandora shell

Is it possible to revert to the old search behaviour of minimenu (via a value in the config file) ?

Um... what has changed there? You mean, not including the root of the SD Card?

 

[dsleaf67]

No no Ed, this is only charging in full power mode this happens. Mine still freezes when charging in low power mode. also, updated above post about still charging.

How do you know it freezes in low-power mode?


Imagine you go into low-power mode and the powerswitch doesn't register anymore (as you said this happens when you're NOT in low-power mode).


The only way to switch from low-power mode to normal mode IS using the powerswitch - and that one stopped registering.


I think it's the same issue here, it doesn't actually freeze, but inputs stop working.


This could be found out using SSH logon.

because nothing registers (yes maybe in this mode all input stops - hence seems like freeze) but when charged in full power mode its only the keyboard that stops (and flipping the power switch doesn't work) all other input still works like gamepad, buttons and nubs (mouse).


I do agree that they are related which is why I reported all this after full power mode charge because I could do anything to test after low power charge froze it. To test your theory further though I will low power charge tonight and try external keyboard after the so call freeze.

 

[EvilDragon]

because nothing registers (yes maybe in this mode all input stops - hence seems like freeze) but when charged in full power mode its only the keyboard that stops (and flipping the power switch doesn't work) all other input still works like gamepad, buttons and nubs (mouse).

Yes, but in low-power mode, you won't see anything on the screen unless you flip the power switch.


If the power switch is disabled, you won't see anything, as you cannot turn the LCD back on again.

I do agree that they are related which is why I reported all this after full power mode charge because I could do anything to test after low power charge froze it. To test your theory further though I will low power charge tonight and try external keyboard after the so call freeze.

What do you intend to test with the external keyboard?


The LCD is switched off in Low-Power mode, so you won't see any reaction to your typing on the keyboard.

 

[Blue Protoman]

I tried rebooting my Pandora like you told me in the IRC, but Mednafen is still broken (especially the PC Engine segment). Did anything change that may have affected that?

 

[EvilDragon]

I tried rebooting my Pandora like you told me in the IRC, but Mednafen is still broken (especially the PC Engine segment). Did anything change that may have affected that?

Nope, nothing. But I had the problem with Wonderswan color on HotFix 5: Every now and then sound was broken (sounded terrible).


A reboot fixed that. Once sound was working, it worked stable.

 

[dsleaf67]

because nothing registers (yes maybe in this mode all input stops - hence seems like freeze) but when charged in full power mode its only the keyboard that stops (and flipping the power switch doesn't work) all other input still works like gamepad, buttons and nubs (mouse).

Yes, but in low-power mode, you won't see anything on the screen unless you flip the power switch.


If the power switch is disabled, you won't see anything, as you cannot turn the LCD back on again.

Sorry, I may have forgot how it supposedly 'froze', but when I replied it this thread to the freeze it was to the user that thought he had to remove the battery. I pointed out that a pandora plus flip the power switch reset it.

I do agree that they are related which is why I reported all this after full power mode charge because I could do anything to test after low power charge froze it. To test your theory further though I will low power charge tonight and try external keyboard after the so call freeze.

What do you intend to test with the external keyboard?


The LCD is switched off in Low-Power mode, so you won't see any reaction to your typing on the keyboard.

If it doesn't actually freeze I would go by led activity. If when using the d-pad then hitting the B button to start loading from SD the lights will flicker. Not the best test but gives a little move info to confirm, even if not definitively.


Edit: Sure enough you're exactly right! Did as above and SD flicked and game Aleph One started and went into demo mode and I could hear it fine as well. Hit pandora key to kill game then select for menu moved down one and hit B to initiate shutdown and it did then started fine.

 

[Blue Protoman]

I tried rebooting my Pandora like you told me in the IRC, but Mednafen is still broken (especially the PC Engine segment). Did anything change that may have affected that?

Nope, nothing. But I had the problem with Wonderswan color on HotFix 5: Every now and then sound was broken (sounded terrible).


A reboot fixed that. Once sound was working, it worked stable.

Rebooting hasn't worked for me. Neither has overclocking (to 800).

 

[thatgui]

Well, you could enable Dropbear (startup settings), make a WiFi connection and use ssh on your linux PC or putty on your Windows PC to logon to the Pandora shell

Ah, a misunderstanding - I thought you wanted to get some information (like log entrys, etc.) via ssh, not just a simple login to check wether the Pandora hangs or not.

Um... what has changed there? You mean, not including the root of the SD Card?

I don't know what has changed exactly. All I know ist that after installing HF6Alpha MiniMenu takes longer to load for no real reason (except for the obvious one - appeasing Craig)


Is there any one having this strange behaviour regarding some (X based ?) applications (gap of 5-6s between application closing and MiniMenu coming up again) ?

 

[Blue Protoman]

Also, when my Pandora charges to 100% in low power mode, it freezes. This has been reported before; I understand that no one's sure if it's frozen or if one particular bit (I think it's the power button) has frozen.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Yes, but in low-power mode, you won't see anything on the screen unless you flip the power switch.


If the power switch is disabled, you won't see anything, as you cannot turn the LCD back on again.

You can press Fn + screen brightness up.