Has anyone, at all, managed to get ahold of Craig?

[ramboky]

@hedwards Like a number of forum members here you're discouraging people from pursing legal action against Craig because you claim it's risky, when it fact it's not. That is shitty advice. I'm aware the company is limited liability but as long as the company is kept on the register then creditors still have a claim. And Craig, as a director, still has legal responsibilities, if not financial ones, which if he has not met could be used to hold him in some way responsible.

My advice would be to object to Craig having the company struck off and if you think it's worth 25 pounds to hold Craig to some account, file a small claim. You have nothing to lose. 

 

[hedwards]

@hedwards Like a number of forum members here you're discouraging people from pursing legal action against Craig because you claim it's risky, when it fact it's not. That is shitty advice. I'm aware the company is limited liability but as long as the company is kept on the register then creditors still have a claim. And Craig, as a director, still has legal responsibilities, if not financial ones, which if he has not met could be used to hold him in some way responsible.

My advice would be to object to Craig having the company struck off and if you think it's worth 25 pounds to hold Craig to some account, file a small claim. You have nothing to lose. 

It's not shitty advice. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to hire a forensic accountant to go through the books and figure out what is and isn't missing? Which is what you'd need at bare minimum seeing as Craig claims that there's no money left and I doubt very much that the books were kept in order. And that's assuming that you don't have to hire an attorney in order to gain access to the books, which in all likelihood you would. Especially seeing as he isn't legally allowed to provide access to the list of orders to 3rd parties.

If people want to hire a solicitor and take a stab at it, fine, I have no skin in the game. But it's outright dishonest to suggest that it's as easy as filing in small claims court. Small claims courts are small because it's not cost effective to use the other courts to deal with small sums of money.

And yes he does have responsibilities, but at this stage all we really know is that he's an incompetent businessperson. Apart from ED whom he definitely owes money to, the rest of the money was largely spent on defective boards and delays. You'd have to hire an expert to know whether things like leaving the terms off the site are sufficient for him to be liable in some way.

Ultimately, I have my Pandora, if you guys want to spend the money doing interrogatories and discovery to determine whether or not there's any way of getting money back, that's your prerogative. But, suggesting that it's going to be quick and easy is just plain wrong.

Even if you do manage to win, the likelihood of getting anything beyond access to the books is sketchy, as Craig is unlikely to have personal assets sufficient to cover the court costs as well as the losses on the project.

It's just a matter of perspective. You guys are certainly entitled to use the legal system, but realize that there's still more that folks can lose and it's unlikely that you're going to get anything beyond revenge by doing it.

 

[EvilDragon]

In Germany, if a company is insolvent, a lawyer is set up by the government to continue running the company and discuss with the parties the company has debts for.

Checking the accountings to see what does belong to the company is part of that, no one who fills the small business claim will have to pay that.

 

[WizardStan]

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to hire a forensic accountant to go through the books and figure out what is and isn't missing?

Irrelevant. The creditor doesn't pay for it, that would be stupid. The government assigns an impartial third party to run the books as part of the insolvency. They are very very good at finding every little bit of money that the company has or should have. The agency may get a cut of whatever money comes out of it before giving the rest to creditors, I don't know, but they certainly don't require any money up front.
caveat: this definitely applies to North America (Canada, USA, and Mexico) but I have no reason to suspect it isn't the same in the UK.

 

[ramboky]

In Germany, if a company is insolvent, a lawyer is set up by the government to continue running the company and discuss with the parties the company has debts for.


Checking the accountings to see what does belong to the company is part of that, no one who fills the small business claim will have to pay that.

It's similar in New Zealand and the UK. Which is why people should be filing objections to OP UK Ltd being struck off, before it's too late.

It's just a matter of perspective. You guys are certainly entitled to use the legal system, but realize that there's still more that folks can lose and it's unlikely that you're going to get anything beyond revenge by doing it.

You don't need to hire forensic accountants, expert witnesses or solicitors. I really don't think you understand the small claims court, legal process or what has been suggested here at all. Again, you don't know what you're talking about so please stop posting bad advice.

The one thing you did get right is people are unlikely to get their money back from filing a small claim. But filing a claim and in addition filing an objection to OP UK Ltd being struck off will bring the attention of the legal system, the companies office and possibly the tax department to Craig's business practices which won't end well for him. I really don't think the books he is required to maintain by law, will stand up to any kind of scrutiny. 

The total risk is 25 pounds and a bit of your time, that's it. 

And this has nothing to do with revenge, it's about holding Craig to account for his own actions. 

 

[andmaz777]

Very sad TBH it comes to all this talk but reading all the posts what else can anyone really think? Assuming of course that at least some of it is true.


Also reading about a very possible Pandora 2 that would never have been possible without the vision that Craig had - I suppose ED taking over the production and getting the investors on board cleared in theory Craig's pre order problems - only problem then being that the pre order numbers that the investment plan was based on turned out to be so much higher it throw that out of the window-whatever the reason for the difference in numbers if a plan was to cover 450 units and it turned out to be over 800 then how can that be expected to work?


So Craig gave up his baby and did not even manage to sort out his pre orders without them paying again! Add in debacle of the 150 1ghz pre orders that should have helped out a lot but the funds went somewhere else as they shouted louder.


Too much spin has destroyed the trust of all but the most ardent Craig supporter(s) - honesty as shown by ED would have avoided all this talk - it is all very very sad!

 

[hedwards]

It's just a matter of perspective. You guys are certainly entitled to use the legal system, but realize that there's still more that folks can lose and it's unlikely that you're going to get anything beyond revenge by doing it.

You don't need to hire forensic accountants, expert witnesses or solicitors. I really don't think you understand the small claims court, legal process or what has been suggested here at all. Again, you don't know what you're talking about so please stop posting bad advice.

The one thing you did get right is people are unlikely to get their money back from filing a small claim. But filing a claim and in addition filing an objection to OP UK Ltd being struck off will bring the attention of the legal system, the companies office and possibly the tax department to Craig's business practices which won't end well for him. I really don't think the books he is required to maintain by law, will stand up to any kind of scrutiny. 

The total risk is 25 pounds and a bit of your time, that's it. 

And this has nothing to do with revenge, it's about holding Craig to account for his own actions. 

Again, I am not giving advice. If you're so stupid that you can't tell that, then please stop responding to me.

The point here is that you assume that he has money or has engaged in illegal practices that would open him up to liability. Now, maybe that's true or maybe that's not. But, we're not entitled to any money back. The money from those first 2 batches was spent on production costs. They lost a couple hundred grand on dysfunctional circuit boards alone.

If somebody is going to be filing suit against Craig, it should either be the authorities in the UK or it should be ED. A small claims court case is not going to get anything productive accomplished. At most you'll get your money back and the rest of us that can't afford to file in the UK would be completely out of luck. More likely you'd get nothing at all.

Filing a complaint with the relevant body in the UK would also be something that might yield some sort of answers.

But, filing a case in small claims court against Craig is just plain petty.

Very sad TBH it comes to all this talk but reading all the posts what else can anyone really think? Assuming of course that at least some of it is true.


Also reading about a very possible Pandora 2 that would never have been possible without the vision that Craig had - I suppose ED taking over the production and getting the investors on board cleared in theory Craig's pre order problems - only problem then being that the pre order numbers that the investment plan was based on turned out to be so much higher it throw that out of the window-whatever the reason for the difference in numbers if a plan was to cover 450 units and it turned out to be over 800 then how can that be expected to work?


So Craig gave up his baby and did not even manage to sort out his pre orders without them paying again! Add in debacle of the 150 1ghz pre orders that should have helped out a lot but the funds went somewhere else as they shouted louder.


Too much spin has destroyed the trust of all but the most ardent Craig supporter(s) - honesty as shown by ED would have avoided all this talk - it is all very very sad!

What supporters? I haven't seen anybody supporting him in quite some time. At this point, it's mostly people who have gone all hyperbolyish and those that would like to maintain at least some modicum of perspective. Craig did a lot of horrible things with his business, but you'd think he was Hitler from some of the comments on the site.

 

[ramboky]

Again, I am not giving advice. If you're so stupid that you can't tell that, then please stop responding to me.

The point here is that you assume that he has money or has engaged in illegal practices that would open him up to liability. Now, maybe that's true or maybe that's not. But, we're not entitled to any money back. The money from those first 2 batches was spent on production costs. They lost a couple hundred grand on dysfunctional circuit boards alone.

If somebody is going to be filing suit against Craig, it should either be the authorities in the UK or it should be ED. A small claims court case is not going to get anything productive accomplished. At most you'll get your money back and the rest of us that can't afford to file in the UK would be completely out of luck. More likely you'd get nothing at all.

Filing a complaint with the relevant body in the UK would also be something that might yield some sort of answers.

But, filing a case in small claims court against Craig is just plain petty.

You've completely failed to read and/or understand what I or several others have posted. Stop posting shitty advice (or "misleading information", if that makes you feel better) and I'll stop correcting it. 

To anyone who prefers not to sit around and do nothing when they get shafted, even when there's a simple and cheap option, please ignore hedwards and follow this guys lead:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108

 

[EvilDragon]

It's not about getting the money back. It's about stopping that the company will simply be struck off the list without anything else happening. There is a huge amount of money missing and a lor of people would love to know where that all went.

 

[hitbyambulance]

To anyone who prefers not to sit around and do nothing when they get shafted, even when there's a simple and cheap option, please ignore hedwards and follow this guys lead:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108

Please note this is for UK residents only. EU residents follow a different method, and Canada/Australia yet another, while other countries are yet to-be-detailed.

Still haven't been able to figure out what to do for US residents - does anyone know? or have even tried? i have sent an email to companieshouse.gov.uk for guidance.

 

[ramboky]

To anyone who prefers not to sit around and do nothing when they get shafted, even when there's a simple and cheap option, please ignore hedwards and follow this guys lead:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108

Please note this is for UK residents only. EU residents follow a different method, and Canada/Australia yet another, while other countries are yet to-be-detailed.

Still haven't been able to figure out what to do for US residents - does anyone know? or have even tried? i have sent an email to companieshouse.gov.uk for guidance.

Very good point I failed to make, thanks

 

[kasp]

I don't know about the UK but here trying to get a company stuck off when it has debts would be considered fraud.  That is something he would be liable for since he is the one doing it.

 

[akarolick]

To anyone who prefers not to sit around and do nothing when they get shafted, even when there's a simple and cheap option, please ignore hedwards and follow this guys lead:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108

Please note this is for UK residents only. EU residents follow a different method, and Canada/Australia yet another, while other countries are yet to-be-detailed.

Still haven't been able to figure out what to do for US residents - does anyone know? or have even tried? i have sent an email to companieshouse.gov.uk for guidance.

I am most certainly angry enough to piss in Craig's Cheerios. If you find anything out please post on here so that we may fill up the bowl.

 

[hitbyambulance]

got a response:

Company Number: 06513352
Company Name: OPENPANDORA LTD

Thank you for your email.

If you wish to make an objection, you will need to provide the company name and number of the company concerned and current documentary evidence of any action that is being taken to recover the outstanding debt.  You should ensure that this information is delivered to us within 3 months of the company being published in the London Gazette or it maybe struck off leaving you unable to pursue any Claim.  Objections can be sent via email or post but the quickest way for your information to be considered is by email. On receipt of this information we will consider whether your objection can be registered.

Should you go ahead and decide to send an objection we would be grateful if you would confirm in your reply, whether you would be agreeable for your identity, as the objector, to be disclosed should an enquiry be received.

email address to send this info to:

enquiries@companies-house.gov.uk

 

[andmaz777]

It's not about getting the money back. It's about stopping that the company will simply be struck off the list without anything else happening. There is a huge amount of money missing and a lor of people would love to know where that all went.

Very interesting!

 

[ramboky]

got a response:

Company Number: 06513352


Company Name: OPENPANDORA LTD


Thank you for your email.


If you wish to make an objection, you will need to provide the company name and number of the company concerned and current documentary evidence of any action that is being taken to recover the outstanding debt.  You should ensure that this information is delivered to us within 3 months of the company being published in the London Gazette or it maybe struck off leaving you unable to pursue any Claim.  Objections can be sent via email or post but the quickest way for your information to be considered is by email. On receipt of this information we will consider whether your objection can be registered.


Should you go ahead and decide to send an objection we would be grateful if you would confirm in your reply, whether you would be agreeable for your identity, as the objector, to be disclosed should an enquiry be received.

email address to send this info to:

enquiries@companies-house.gov.uk

Nice work! Great to see more people are willing to take the time to do something.

 

[eazrael]

Cool, that saved me from writing a letter (just started 20 mins ago).

 

[ramboky]

Cool, that saved me from writing a letter (just started 20 mins ago).

You should file your objection too. The more people who do, the better. It'll make it clear to the Companies Office that it's not just one or two disgruntled customers but a number of people with a legitimate claim.

 

[eazrael]

Oh, i just send my mail. But i think a letter must be more formal than an email. I tried to be as formal and correct as possible in the email. But as a German i am not very experienced dealing with British legal stuff and writing letters and so.

 

[ramboky]

Oh, i just send my mail. But i think a letter must be more formal than an email. I tried to be as formal and correct as possible in the email. But as a German i am not very experienced dealing with British legal stuff and writing letters and so.

Email is fine, I misunderstood your post and thought you weren't going to send an objection at all. Nice work