Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[moxie]

...apart from the more humane bits, that it is a bad sort of person that goes around spreading lies about others. Or unfounded rumours. And before anybody goes "Well, someone else started it" - Two wrongs doesn't make a right, and so on. Vent your anger all you want, and discuss strategies, and whatnot, but keep it to the truth. 

 

[vcoleiro1]

Personally I feel bad for the people left waiting for a Pandora from Craig including those that have now opted for a refund.  I only hope that Craig and Ed start talking again and some resolution is reached , particularly for refunds.  If they find it hard to communicate then perhaps a mediator might be the ticket.  

 

[EvilDragon]

Personally I feel bad for the people left waiting for a Pandora from Craig including those that have now opted for a refund.  I only hope that Craig and Ed start talking again and some resolution is reached , particularly for refunds.  If they find it hard to communicate then perhaps a mediator might be the ticket.  

What solution do you expect?

There's not much i can do. I already offer as much profit I can afford towards units for his customers, and I've also started the preorder donation fund. Upgrades are being offered at production costs and I've sent multiple units out for press reviews already so that we'll hopefully get some good promotion soon.

Craigs company doesn't have any money left and can only wait for these units.

What magical solution do you expect here?

There's not much really that would change anything.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Personally I feel bad for the people left waiting for a Pandora from Craig including those that have now opted for a refund.  I only hope that Craig and Ed start talking again and some resolution is reached , particularly for refunds.  If they find it hard to communicate then perhaps a mediator might be the ticket.  

What solution do you expect?


There's not much i can do. I already offer as much profit I can afford towards units for his customers, and I've also started the preorder donation fund. Upgrades are being offered at production costs and I've sent multiple units out for press reviews already so that we'll hopefully get some good promotion soon.


Craigs company doesn't have any money left and can only wait for these units.


What magical solution do you expect here?


There's not much really that would change anything.

A solution for Craigs  refund requests is needed.  Something needs to be worked out for them.  Even if that's just calling Craig and reiterating your offer you mentioned in post 141.  

Secondly , everyone appreciates what you have done ED, myself especially.  It's a shit situation, we have someone unwilling to help on side (Craig), someone who is willing to help on another side (ED) and the poor Craig  pre-order refund requests in the middle.  

 

[rohezal]

Maybe craig can go to sites like dealextreme.com, write to sites / famous twitter people about the price drop for the Pandora. He has lots of contacts from the ICP2. He could get some new buyers, especially for the 279€ Pandoras. He could write via news letter about the Pandora on the ICP2 list.

 

[ekianjo]

Craig does not care. He does not even care about his current projects (ICP2 project management seems to be another good joke) so don't expect him to take care of his previous "promises". Remember when the ICP2 was said to be delivered to its customers?


For all we know he may have bought himself a nice car with the pre-orders money, and now he's pretending ED has to take care of his mess. WHat a great guy.

More likely it's just taking longer than he thought it would because he's not great at estimating how long things will take. 

ANd he's not great at fixing the keyboard layout either. How long did it take for that, it was not even fixed at the end of 2012 while the delivery date on KS was early 2013 or something. He's happy to grab people's money but not very eager to do any work after that. 

 

[ekianjo]

I am not very happy about the continued more-or-less-veiled accusations that Craig is somehow embezzling money to other projects. If you have proof (and that is proof, as in receipts, witnesses, or something else that would stand up in court) then bring'em. If not, you're being libelous. And that goes whether you're naming names, or just using convenient ellipses like "someone" in the post above me.

At this stage when you have :

- no communication whatsoever from C to his customers

- no clear progress on ICP2 despite the successful funding

- no action from C to do anything about the previous pre-orders and doing no shit to promote the Pandora either

I'd rather like to see C come and explain what he used the money he got (from the preorders) for, as he has been ASKED so many times, and where did the tax rebate money he was claiming to receive go as well. And he claimed to have received "so many refund requests" while ED hardly got any. Why does that sound very wrong to my ears? Could there be some BS going on there about the "many refunds" claim ? 

Nobody is going to attack him in court to get back a few hundred bucks anyway, but please stop trying to save the reputation of someone who is oblivious to respecting his customers. Action speaks louder than words, and C has not done anything for MONTHS. Except complaining at ED. 

 

[Exophase]

ANd he's not great at fixing the keyboard layout either. How long did it take for that, it was not even fixed at the end of 2012 while the delivery date on KS was early 2013 or something. He's happy to grab people's money but not very eager to do any work after that. 

I don't think he's sitting around doing nothing but counting your money. He's probably been pretty busy with the essentials of finishing the electrical and mechanical design. I get the impression that Craig (much like myself) takes to tasks with a single track mind and has a hard time interleaving work on other things, even things as mundane as giving public status updates. What Craig needs to do is start being way more conservative in what he promises, and start finding more people he can delegate things to. People who will be in regular informal communication with him and can speak for him on what the status of the project is and can do things like organize the keyboard layout. Seems like in the past MWeston took a bit of this role in addition to his main electrical and software design duties, but maybe he's too busy with that now (or he's tired of these forums, I don't think he really likes it here either :/)

 

[darkborn]

I am not very happy about the continued more-or-less-veiled accusations that Craig is somehow embezzling money to other projects. If you have proof (and that is proof, as in receipts, witnesses, or something else that would stand up in court) then bring'em. If not, you're being libelous. And that goes whether you're naming names, or just using convenient ellipses like "someone" in the post above me.

At this stage when you have :

- no communication whatsoever from C to his customers

- no clear progress on ICP2 despite the successful funding

- no action from C to do anything about the previous pre-orders and doing no shit to promote the Pandora either

I'd rather like to see C come and explain what he used the money he got (from the preorders) for, as he has been ASKED so many times, and where did the tax rebate money he was claiming to receive go as well. And he claimed to have received "so many refund requests" while ED hardly got any. Why does that sound very wrong to my ears? Could there be some BS going on there about the "many refunds" claim ? 

Nobody is going to attack him in court to get back a few hundred bucks anyway, but please stop trying to save the reputation of someone who is oblivious to respecting his customers. Action speaks louder than words, and C has not done anything for MONTHS. Except complaining at ED. 

Thank you for your post.

Somebody has to say that.


I am tired of this "diplomatic" explanation why C did or did not something... it is obvious what he did/is doing, unless we are *all* retarded.

We are talking about guy who took the money from people, then took again more from some (for famous "upgrades"), then after that refuses to get (back) refundes.

ED came to save him (and project), and C took him as a - new victim of C's masterchief cook.

Let's say all of that is some kind of misunderstandings, but... how do you explain that he don't have shame to REFUSE any contact to army of his ... "investors".

Did he answer here, at a right place, to *any* what should be possible solution?

...and now he is starting with same story again - now it is called ICP2.

Title of this topic is just a bait, decoy for a C to - answer. He knew that he must answer something, because there are other people who are in charge to be left of their money, people who invested in ICP2. They are searching for answers around, and this forum is place where mighty google will bring them for sure.

And what are C's comments? Any "sorry folks"? No, he came to - accuse ED.

We all know here this is BS, but what you don't know is - this is story not for us, this is story for ICP2 supporters, so that he can sell more of his "business".

Summarize all of posts C made on this topic and rethink about: What should naive people think of C?

Nice guy who has been robbed by Evil Evil Evil... Dragon.

So, this C person does not provide ANY excuse to anybody (hundreds, maybe thousands of people!), just a fake blame to ED. So that he can play more with people investing in ICP2.

C stays for a cancer for Pandora: I am sure that if that part is out, ED will handle out that mess, because there are hundreds of people willing to support this project, people that have confidence at ED.

I knew a similar guy like C, who did a great business, but he -took money where ever he could, and share around promises and nothing more... After some time, he got broken fingers every here and then, and then disappeared. I think somebody did something really bad to him.

C is a full if he thinks that he can play around with thousands of people around the globe this way. Apparently, this forum gives him confidence to continue with dishonest business.

I'm passive agressive, I'm ok with that. Maybe is that I am watching "Breaking Bad", but maybe is just that I can not stand people like C anymore.

Gimme my money and I promise that I do not hunt you at Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, C.  But this is not all.

I do not want new victims on *my* conscience: ICP2, ICP3 etc preorders-upgrade-refund victims. BS has to be stopped.

Pandora is a noble project; when you steal from a noble and good people, you get serious problem, not business-solution.

Great salesman in action: "Would you buy ... whatever?"

 

[darkborn]

ANd he's not great at fixing the keyboard layout either. How long did it take for that, it was not even fixed at the end of 2012 while the delivery date on KS was early 2013 or something. He's happy to grab people's money but not very eager to do any work after that. 

I don't think he's sitting around doing nothing but counting your money. He's probably been pretty busy with the essentials of finishing the electrical and mechanical design.

NAIVE.

 

[Exophase]

No, it's not naive, it's a reasonable conclusion based on all available evidence. I could start listing it if you really want.

Assuming that he's left the country now that he gotten iCP2 money just because he can't pay for Pandoras may make you feel smart but it's actually pretty stupid. Silence doesn't mean he's scamming everyone, it COULD just mean he's bad at updating people. You know, like he was throughout Pandora's development, but those did actually start shipping to people, even if not everyone got one.

You act as if I'm blindly giving Craig the benefit of the doubt out of wishful thinking or foolish trust (in reality I don't even care about iCP2 since I didn't order one, although I do care about the people on this board not getting screwed). This is anything but the case and my public correspondence with him supports this. But that doesn't mean I'm going to turn my brain off and start shouting baseless accusations and conspiracy theories.

 

[patnik]

:blink: at darkborn.

There is no need for that, dude. We can sympathize with you, we are aware of the situation as it affects all of us, but that was uncalled for.

...Patnik

 

[rohezal]

Craig did deliver the ICP1 to his customers. The delay for the ICP2 are related to the backlit, which most of its customers wanted. Craig shipped Pandoras until he was out of money to continue. I think he made some mistakes and his "I won't tell" policy is really bad. I must say from the whole Pandora project I have learned one thing for myself. It is better to be open and honest like EvilDragon. It became my way of doing bussines and it worked great .

 

[darkborn]

OK, let's summarize:
The title of this thread is: Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

Craig's name is here, everybody who is googling Craig will find it. So he had to response.

What are C's responses?
(I found 10 of them, sorry if I miss some: 53, 57, 75, 76, 81, 84, 87, 90, 118, 124)

Last year Ed has made it clear to me he runs the OP show now. He has his own team of people who he takes advice from.

I have no influence on what he is doing or if we will ever get those missing units which he promised when he asked to take over production. That's just business I suppose.

(...)

Ed asked me to reduce my forum presence because I make waves or cause trouble for him or whatever, and I've done so.

I don't know who his 'investors' are, I don't know his business plan and have minimal contact with him. 

(...)  Ideally being patient means everyone gets their refund/Pandora, this is what we would like to happen.

The buy back/upgrade option is in process and should allow for enough money to finish things up.

There won't be a Pandora2.

(Pandora2 is mentioned here just to show that if he was in charge, it "will be". Nothing without C. It is also decoy so that people start talking about P2 instead refunds.)

NOW, what should some poor soul that does not know background story thinks about C, or about ED?
Obviously, C is not responded for anything. ED runs the show (!), guy that promised him and (obviously) cross over, but - it is "just business I suppose". Poor C.
Evil ED asked him to reduce his forum presence! So... he has done so. (FCK YOU, LIAR!)
He doesn't know ED's business plan, and has minimal contact with him. Because ED avoid poor C. (more about it at following posts)

WHOLE FAIRY TALE HAS ONLY ONE PURPOSE: TO GET IMPRESSION FOR SOMEBODY NEW THAT POOR C IS CLEAN AND EVIL D IS FCKING HIM AROUND!
F*CK YOU, WE ARE HERE FOR 3 YEARS! YOU INSULTED PEOPLE, THE MOST ARROGANT PRICK I SAW AT ANY FORUM ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.
AND NOW YOU'RE TALKING NICELY SAME AS ERIC CARTMAN WHEN WANTS TO SCR*W SOMEBODY.

Anyway.
Only 1 (!) line related to theme of this topic: REFUNDS.
And what about other 9 comments from C?

Ed has told me and Mike he has no interest in it

(about Pandora 2, off-topic subject HE put on. Again, Evil ED... no word about refundes)

I don't think anyone is my enemy Ed, I've got better things to do.

(...continues blaming ED for everything... lot of)

It's time for you to stop with with 'saviour of the community' thing and actually start taking your own advice and be honest about things.

ARROGANT PRICK, STILL NO WORD ABOUT REFUNDS.

I would do that but Ed has never given me a solid answer on what woud happen in the situation of OP Ltd going in to liquidation. That's the main reason I'm still running it. I won't let it go if it means people will just be left abandoned with no Pandora.

THIS IS C'S ANSWER WHY HE DON'T WANT TO GIVE TO ED REMAINING PRE-ORDER LIST.
He is worried because if he give it to Evil-Evil-D, "it means people will just be left abandoned with no Pandora"
WHAT A LIAR. IF I GET TO NEWCASTLE, YOU'LL BE LEFT ABANDONED OF SOME CRUCIAL PARTS OF YOUR BODY!
Still no word about refunds.

C'S ANSWER at "Can you please talk about this in private Craig? This sheds bad light on the project.":

Unfortunately this is the only place I get a timely answer from Ed.

I don't like doing this but people ask me why I don't defend myself on the forums, so sometimes I have to say something or everything not defended becomes fact.

What people ask you that? People from ICP2 suspecting that you made mess, so that you are doing a new one???

He has not made it clear to me that he will ship my orders out, only said he will do what he can if the time comes. That isn't solid enough for me, because I can see how based on past experience that could be turned against me and it could suddenly be my fault ... and no one from my list gets a Pandora.

If Ed will say here, in public he will ship all my remaining orders, then it can happen.

You could also try irc, EvilDragon is in there most of the time (e.g. now).

I try him all the time on IRC, he never answers me.

LOOK WHO'S TALKING ABOUT NOT ANSWERING??? C? WHAT A SHAMELESS GUY. AND A LIAR.

from what your buyers think about your customer service, you're bullshi**ing about ED, honestly, i just don't trust your afirmatives

It's Ed who has been in charge for well over a year... how can I provide units when I don't make them? I have absolutely no control of production and Ed does not update me on what is going on.

I get my news from this forum as much as you do. It is quite frankly ridiculous to blame me after Ed has been in charge for so long.

SLEEZY... HOW LOW CAN YOU GO, C?

December was a difficult time to get a hold of ED (I tried for weeks because I wanted to get him to do DS videos ;p) but he's been pretty active since then. Probably a lot of people are hard to reach during the holidays.

Apart from that he was active on this forum within minutes during that time if someone had a complaint about something which might damage his reputation?

OMFG... C ABOUT REPUTATION AND (NOT) ANSWERING...

(MR SLEEZY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TAPATALK IS. F*CK TAPATALK, EVERY ANDROID HAS AUTO-SYNCHRONIZATION, GMAIL WILL ALERT YOU IN A MINUTE!)

We should celebrate that Ed made his queue a priority over mine? And thus resulted in my customers thinking I'm somehow scamming them? Even though I have no control over the distribution of units?

It does make me sad that, inevitably, when Ed clears his queue the usual shit will come my way, but I've had no control over this for over a year.

So Ed gets himself out the shit but leaves me in it, this is not what we agreed back when he wanted to take this over.

The units should have been distributed evenly, no queue should have been prioritised, I certainly didn't do that when I was building the units.

NO C, YOU EQUALLY DID *NOT* SEND UNITS TO ANYBODY.

FINAL PART TO GET ICP2 PEOPLE SWINDLED:

Notaz, are you one of Eds investors? I think cards should be on the table if you are.

SO, WE ARE ALL EVIL INVESTORS OF EVEN MORE EVIL ED, BLAMING POOR C AT EVIL PRIVATE FORUM OF ED. GET IT? MORE WE BLAME C HERE, IT WILL BE MORE PROOFS THAT HE IS INOCENT...
WHAT A JURK.

I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

So I should have also received 400+ free units?

I have emailed Ed (just now), maybe some kind of resolution can be reached.

I'm back at work tomorrow so I won't be able to update this thread.

As you can see, maybe Ed is right, my presence here is destructive.

I think I've pretty much said what I wanted to say.

YEAH, HE REACHED HIS POINT. EVIL ED SWINDLED HIM, WE ARE ALL EVIL INVESTORS OF ED (!) AND SO... SCR*W US. WE GUILTY, C INNOCENT. (FREE TO GET ORDERS FROM HIS NEW VICTIMS AT HIS NEW PROJECTS)
NO PASSARAN.

 

[darkborn]

Craig did deliver the ICP1 to his customers. The delay for the ICP2 are related to the backlit, which most of its customers wanted. Craig shipped Pandoras until he was out of money to continue. I think he made some mistakes and his "I won't tell" policy is really bad. I must say from the whole Pandora project I have learned one thing for myself. It is better to be open and honest like EvilDragon. It became my way of doing bussines and it worked great .

It is not true. He made that things out about backlit so that he get more time for excuses. Craig made so excuses in years for NOT shipping Pandoras that it is waaay too much.

Are you want to be a victim, some masochism issue, or you are too much ashamed of beeing screwd for years?


But you are absolutely true about ED's business (and life) policy.

Open and honest like EvilDragon. Hmmm... I have to make tattoo or something with that .

 

[elwing]

hum

/just got hit by a huge wall of caps-locked text...

 

[Exophase]

Okay darkborn.. the guy didn't steal your wife and shoot your dog, you're just out a few hundred dollars because he made questionable management/financial decisions and wasn't able to deliver that thing you ordered and isn't willing to apologize for it or take responsibility. If there's a point somewhere in that wall of rage no one's going to find it, not so long as you're screaming like a raving lunatic. If not getting your Pandora or a refund is this severe then you probably didn't show the best judgment in ordering it. If that's not the case then calm the fuck down.

 

[darkborn]

hum


/just got hit by a huge wall of caps-locked text...

Lucky you that you did not hit by a meaning of all of those.

I am happy that I am surrounded with people that are milked for 3+ years and cool as ice.

OK, Yoda, give your bank account to mr. C. Obviously you don't have to be worried about, because he is not using caps lock.

 

[darkborn]

Okay darkborn.. the guy didn't steal your wife and shoot your dog, you're just out a few hundred dollars because he made questionable management/financial decisions and wasn't able to deliver that thing you ordered and isn't willing to apologize for it or take responsibility. If there's a point somewhere in that wall of rage no one's going to find it, not so long as you're screaming like a raving lunatic. If not getting your Pandora or a refund is this severe then you probably didn't show the best judgment in ordering it. If that's not the case then calm the fuck down.

Please, listen to your self. Read it again. How many cases do you know like this, and that those last for years, and that you anybody do still believe....

Well, *now* I know why people wait 2k years for ressurection. oops 2nd coming, but same bs. So, Craig has plenty of time, seems to me.

Just look at bold parts, multiply it with 3+ years, then multiply with hundreds of ppl screwd up etc.

Really, why is anybody upset in deed?

 

[Esn]

Even if darkborn's posts are over the top (though he does also make salient points), this is the fruit born from the seeds of bad communication.

I'll just take this as a lesson to never use Craig's communication strategies, whether in business or in romance. Better some pain up-front than a fountain of rage in the future.

(I suppose I'm a little more relaxed about this because I did receive my Pandora back in 2011... and ICP2 isn't that far behind schedule for Kickstarter projects, though communication has been bad)