Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[vcoleiro1]

..

 

[davidgro]

Actually, from my perspective, the best course of action for those waiting for refunds would be to reinstate the order - then immediately cross-upgrade (yes, for more $$$) to ED's queue.  That wipes out the debt from Craig's shop and gets them a Pandora immediately.  The Pandora is still a VERY cool device - and there is nothing else like it on the planet.

Yeah, that would be great but...

It's just not worth it to me anymore.

The specs are not as good as my phone, and my phone (a year old itself) is already well behind the cutting edge.

My phone is dual core, 1.2 GHz (which the 1 GHz units can probably reach, haven't checked) has 1 GiB of RAM (I always have too many browser tabs open, I can run into swap on my laptop with 32 GiB)

It also has a physical keyboard. No analogs, but I am more a portable desktop type user than a gamer anyway. If I *really* needed them I'd buy an ICP1. (Are those still for sale?)

Pandora absolutely wins on battery, and would even more if it had working power management. (4ah and only 10 hours of active use‽). Oh how I wish I could upgrade my phone's battery.

The phone was subsidized, so I'm sorta paying monthly for it, but full retail was under the price of a 1 GHz Pandora.

On the software side, Pandora might win (Can run Angstrom, I think Debian/Ubuntu, and some versions of Android right?) but phone Android has an awful lot of apps that are already optimized to work well on a small screen - and I can actually run some Linux native applications, hopefully better soon. And a few have been cross-compiled even more directly.

Also, I hate to say it, but "always on" (being a phone) really does make a huge positive difference. (Despite how much I fought to avoid going that route years ago.) Even outside the browser I am constantly looking things up like how late the next bus is, what song is playing, my bank account balances, etc.

But the big thing is the fact that a "cross upgrade" is really that cost Plus what I already paid to OpenPandora Ltd. Sure it would be nice to have a piece of console history, but I just can't justify the cost anymore. If what I already paid could be properly accounted into it, then yeah, I might go for it since that would only be another few hundred.

On top of everything though, I don't even have the free time to play with gadgets that I did 3.5 years ago :-(

 

[EvilDragon]

Don't blame the team for having an abundance of optimism when the project started.  They did a commendable job of keeping it going through some rather serious adversity.

I'm not blaming the team per se, I'm just saying it's not fair to say now to the people who didn't get their orders and aren't getting refunds that they were warned from the start that this could happen. That's a myth.

 Actually, I did that for every order made after December 2008.

I made a clear warning text before ordering. I lost a few sales, probably, but I also had VERY few refund requests so far

Actually, from my perspective, the best course of action for those waiting for refunds would be to reinstate the order - then immediately cross-upgrade (yes, for more $$$) to ED's queue.  That wipes out the debt from Craig's shop and gets them a Pandora immediately.  The Pandora is still a VERY cool device - and there is nothing else like it on the planet.

Sure, any upgrade helps things tremendously, but you can't expect that from everyone.

 

[Exophase]

I guess I didn't know exactly what happened w/your sales, since I only saw things from Craig's side. That would go some way towards explaining why your buyer base has been more loyal.

Still, I know you have repeatedly stated that people can get a refund from you at any time, and for that matter I'm not aware that you've ever failed to deliver one in a timely fashion, so it still seems a little odd that you'd warn people that they might not see the device or their money. For people from Craig's queue who want their money back now it doesn't seem very reasonable to tell them to suck it up because they should have known their money could be forfeit.

 

[EvilDragon]

Still, I know you have repeatedly stated that people can get a refund from you at any time, and for that matter I'm not aware that you've ever failed to deliver one in a timely fashion, so it still seems a little odd that you'd warn people that they might not see the device or their money.

Well, not really odd.

Think back, it was early 2009 when I did that.

I paid for 4000 LCDs, so the preorder money was gone.

I had nothing to do with the production, basically, that was all in Craigs hands.

What would I have done, if not a single Pandora ever saw the light of day?

I wouldn't have the money to pay back the refunds.

 

[_wb_]

Actually, from my perspective, the best course of action for those waiting for refunds would be to reinstate the order - then immediately cross-upgrade (yes, for more $$$) to ED's queue.  That wipes out the debt from Craig's shop and gets them a Pandora immediately.  The Pandora is still a VERY cool device - and there is nothing else like it on the planet.

Yeah, that would be great but...


It's just not worth it to me anymore.


The specs are not as good as my phone, and my phone (a year old itself) is already well behind the cutting edge.


My phone is dual core, 1.2 GHz (which the 1 GHz units can probably reach, haven't checked) has 1 GiB of RAM (I always have too many browser tabs open, I can run into swap on my laptop with 32 GiB)


It also has a physical keyboard. No analogs, but I am more a portable desktop type user than a gamer anyway. If I *really* needed them I'd buy an ICP1. (Are those still for sale?)


Pandora absolutely wins on battery, and would even more if it had working power management. (4ah and only 10 hours of active use‽). Oh how I wish I could upgrade my phone's battery.


The phone was subsidized, so I'm sorta paying monthly for it, but full retail was under the price of a 1 GHz Pandora.

Yes, phones have some better specs than the Pandora now. E.g. for web browsing, a phone with a 5" screen, more RAM, faster CPU, and built-in 3G is probably a better choice than the Pandora. But the Pandora still has some unique strengths, even if you're not really a gamer (if you're a gamer, especially a retro-gamer, then the Pandora is a no-brainer, so I won't elaborate on that).

The keyboard. Yes, some phones also have a physical keyboard, but chances are that it is much worse than the Pandora keyboard. Do you have a staggered key layout, or one of those grid layouts? Can you easily type any ASCII character? Do you have shoulder buttons for SHIFT and CTRL?

The accurate touch screen (no fat finger required so all buttons have to be supersized).

The battery life: power management is working fine, those 10 hours are what you get when the cpu is used 100%. In normal desktop use (editing some documents, doing some coding, stuff like that) I get between 20 and 25 hours of active use.

The dual full SD slots - I'm not even aware of any phone with a single full SD slot.

The big USB port: very practical to not need an adapter to plug in things like memory sticks or external hard disks (can phones even power those?)

On the software side, Pandora might win (Can run Angstrom, I think Debian/Ubuntu, and some versions of Android right?) but phone Android has an awful lot of apps that are already optimized to work well on a small screen - and I can actually run some Linux native applications, hopefully better soon. And a few have been cross-compiled even more directly.

Also, I hate to say it, but "always on" (being a phone) really does make a huge positive difference. (Despite how much I fought to avoid going that route years ago.) Even outside the browser I am constantly looking things up like how late the next bus is, what song is playing, my bank account balances, etc.

I keep my Pandora always on, the standby time is about 1 week.

 

[ZXDunny]

It was not a blatantly stated risk, no.  But anyone who walks into their local bank to get a $400 money order to drop in the mail to some strange guy in England to purchase a device that hasn't been made yet - they should realize that they're entering a bit of a risky deal.

To be fair, Craig was not "some strange guy in England". He was the head of GBAX.com, a very well known and respected supplier of GBA accessories and other handheld devices. I'd been a loyal customer of his for many years, sending lots of cash his way for stuff I wanted. I also knew of him from years before that when he was active in other communities.

He was also very well known around gp32x.de as a reseller of the GP2X for many years, and the Pandora was in part started off by him as a replacement for the growing list of cock-ups that GPH had produced - the community wanted a handheld retro-gaming machine that got it right.

So no, he wasn't a stranger and had a good reputation back then.

D.

 

[Esn]

Craig's demand that ED take on the legal liability for all of his outstanding orders AND refunds before he'll disclose how many of those there are - that's simply nuts.  To paraphrase that, "You agree to take on my debt - then I'll tell you how much debt that is."  Nobody would ever take that deal - I don't care how bad of a businessman they are.  To even propose it takes some serious clankin' cajohnes though.  On what planet would such a deal make sense to anyone?

I would just like to say that I agree with this, and for this reason Craig's play for public sympathy didn't work on me.
As far as I can tell, ED has already committed to getting rid of Craig's originally-stated queue of "around 800" as long as he keeps getting profit from new sales. Refunds as well: those were funded by buying Pandora parts from Craig (one full collection of Pandora parts for the price of one refund). He made substantial progress in this and has been transparent with his numbers (even though I'm suspicious of that "500" number for ED's preorders, that's too even to be exact). It was in the business plan that he and his investors agreed to. If Craig told the truth back then, I guess he should have nothing to worry about? I assume that if "around 800" actually meant 815, those extra 15 orders wouldn't be abandoned. And yet he does worry, and I cannot understand why.

Obvious caveats: I may not represent majority opinion, I can only base my judgements on what the situation looks like from the outside.

So no, he wasn't a stranger and had a good reputation back then.

This is true as well.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Hardware people can blow me... The hardware isn't the best, but there is always better hardware right around the corner. Don't chase that dragon.

The pandora is awesome because it doesn't limit you in any way. It offers you a bunch of functionality in hardware and let's the developers go wild. No jailbreaking, no sandboxes, no hypervisors, no abstraction layers.... no bloatware.

No upsell.. no marketing... no bullshit. That's why you pay good money

 

[notaz]

(even though I'm suspicious of that "500" number for ED's preorders, that's too even to be exact)

IIRC he had an artificial limit of 500 and there was larger demand than that, but he no longer accepted preorders after reaching 500.

 

[Esn]

(even though I'm suspicious of that "500" number for ED's preorders, that's too even to be exact)

IIRC he had an artificial limit of 500 and there was larger demand than that, but he no longer accepted preorders after reaching 500.

I thought the 500 number was the number that he had left at the time that the production moved over to Germany and the new business plan got going. Is this wrong?

 

[EvilDragon]

(even though I'm suspicious of that "500" number for ED's preorders, that's too even to be exact)

IIRC he had an artificial limit of 500 and there was larger demand than that, but he no longer accepted preorders after reaching 500.

We had a limit, true, but that's not how the number had been created.

In reality, I had a few less than 500, I just rounded it up to have some spare ones for repairs, etc.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

Sorry, just to confirm, which thread is it that will be discussing the assembly, registers, optimizing and so on? I for one am interested, maybe even Ari64 will join?

 

[Maquis196]

I emailed Jacquelyn to turn my 1ghz "beta" tester from refund back into a pandora and due to my original queue position I asked her to bump me back to where I should have been (before anyone complains, the unit that did get sent to me that was returned obviously pushed the queue down by one...).

So when I get it, I guess I'll be putting it on the trade section and sell it for a bit of a loss, but I assume this will help everyone involved rather then waiting for a refund that might take another year.

 

[pmprog]

Sorry, just to confirm, which thread is it that will be discussing the assembly, registers, optimizing and so on? I for one am interested, maybe even Ari64 will join?

I doubt you'll actually see it, though I too would be interested

 

[Exophase]

Sorry, just to confirm, which thread is it that will be discussing the assembly, registers, optimizing and so on? I for one am interested, maybe even Ari64 will join?

I asked him to start a new thread for that but I don't think it's going to happen Come on Overgauss, don't let us down, that really could actually lead to interesting discussion!

 

[Robzed]

No bears, panda, monkeys, great apes, cats or anything (although I like Coffee).

... but I am glad Craig and EvilDragon posted.

Also I think that Smartphones are not Pandoras. It's a pity that the second category of devices isn't more successful - but most normal people watch videos, check timetables and read Facebook. Pity I'm not normal all the time, and don't want to be. 

Also +1 for assembler/registers/optimising thread

 

[Loonie]

Also +1 for assembler/registers/optimising thread

Hell, might as well start it here.

 

[Exophase]

I think we're going to have to give up on the assembly/registers/optimization topic..

 

[FaeMinx]

I think we're going to have to give up on the assembly/registers/optimization topic..

Perhaps he's in the process of creating a massive WALL-OF-TEXT with numerous mind-numbing quote pyramids?


Building pyramids takes some time I hear... especially the really big ones.


We may be in for a treat.... If any of us live long enough to read through the first post. x.x