GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[Exophase]

I reckon the Pandora had a potential sales point initially (rising to a pretty compelling one by the end of its production) of an awesome community behind it. If people don't realise the importance of that, a cheaper alternative might impact sales, but I suspect the community is a big driver behind the pandora units still being desirable whenever they come on sale, and it shouldn't be impossible to publicise that benefit ahead of the Pyra launch too.

I don't really think there's anything preventing this community from latching onto a GPD device though.

There'd be less incentive for device-specific development but still.

 

[levi]

If only GPD made devices that were available for as long as the Pandora's been available. Although perhaps a lot of that is down to how long it's taken to fulfill the preorders that have been fulfilled so far. But I don't expect a sequel to the Pyra for a good couple of years yet, until there's something worth upgrading to around, while I understand that GPD tends to come out with new devices with slightly different chipsets and slightly different form factors.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Why? There's lots of SBCs and many more coming out all the time. The thing that makes the Pandora/Pyra interesting is the whole package.

Maybe something like that "breakout CPU board" that Nikolaus made to test the Pyra main board connected to the OMAP devboard might be interesting for 3rd parties. I imagine that some work might be needed to create something more consumer friendly, though.

Of course, would still be aimed more at a DIY style project, like a Pyra with a cable coming out of the back which plugs into a RPi or other SBC somehow. Might be interesting for some peeps.

 

[pmprog]

I would argue that though. I don't believe anyone here seriously looks down on Android users.

Maybe hate is the wrong word, but there's certainly a lot of negativity when it comes to other choices. Hell, just revisit the Windows 10 on Pyra thread. People really got aggressive! And it's not like the Linux option was ever going to go away, Android and Win10 would only be additions.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well it IS the evilest version of Windows.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, Dingoonity and our boards are totally different users in my opinion.

Back in the GP32X days, the main focus was gaming and homebrew games. Only the GP32, later the GP2X and then the Wiz and Caanoo ever existed. The Dingoo came after the the high times of the GP32X boards.
And, to be honest, I don't the the Dingoo as Open Device, as it was a closed device cracked and linuxxed by the users, unlike the idea of the GP2X and Caanoo.

The Pandora was born on GP32X, and at some time, Craig decided to split the boards (I never wanted that, GP32 was my home!).
Not all members moved - only the ones interested in the Pandora. The ones who simply wanted to have a small handheld gaming devices stayed there - but the forums activity slowly died, especially as nothing much came out.

When Dingoonity arose, GP32X was already pretty much dead, sadly, and a new community arose there on Dingoonity, mainly based on gamers (so very similar to the GP32X folks).

The Pandora however changed things a bit: While it was planned to be mainly an open gaming handheld, it turned out to be a mini PC.
So more and more users interested in Linux came here, not only gamers, which changed the audience a lot.

Yes, sadly, I also see some harsh words when something like Windows or Android appears on the boards, probably from some hardcore Linux users.

So yes, a lot of users here are Linux fans whereas on Dingoonity, most users don't care about the system but want to play games.
And yes, I also think that most users on Dingoonity are mainly focussed on cheap devices. After all, the Dingoo, JXD, etc. devices are all cheap chinese devices (with quality issues), except for the GPD which seems to be of better quality, but still for a good price.
Of course, Dingoonity was based on the Dingoo - a 50 USD cheap device.

So I think there are huge differences between both communities, but I don't see why they should fight over something.

I plan to become the german reseller for the GPD devices. I want to support a wide audience of gamers and fans

 

[Klumpen]

For pure handheld gaming, I use my 3DS-XL which has very nice GBA, GB, GBC and NES emulation installed now. I'm actually using Exophase's old GBA emulator on it. Not a naturally open device at all though.

Pandora/Pyra is way more interesting because of the huge homebrew catalog and wide ranging desktop capabilities, I aggree.
C64, PSX, Amiga etc... emulation is better on it than anywhere else imho though, especcially when taking the power efficiency into account.

GPDs device (if it will ever exist) probably wouldn't have the storage capacity, battery life or versatile Linux, so it's for another audience indeed and I don't think, that many sales would be lost, although a few of course.
I see Dragonbox' own devices as the upper class and can imagine why it's seen as elitist, all those functions come with a price tag of course, but it's worth it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Linux users usually tend to love their freedom of choice, but often seem to have a hard time respecting other people's choices. At least from what I've gathered.

Yes, sadly I have to agree.
I wonder why - let everyone love and do what wants

We can all try to be friends. Shoving things into faces or making demands based solely on your own interests won't help the cause, though.

True

OK I think I have read enough - let's all register @Dingoonity and tell those idiots we are nice and decent GNU/Linux people.
However... we might have a problem with the evil bloke..... hmmm.... maybe better to keep him here while we clean out the rats nest.

Who's with me?!

I'm already registered there for quite a while

Am I the EvilBloke?

 

[Haraldur]

Linux users usually tend to love their freedom of choice, but often seem to have a hard time respecting other people's choices. At least from what I've gathered. Obviously doesn't apply to those who're gonna tell me it's not true (never said everyone there).

We can all try to be friends. Shoving things into faces or making demands based solely on your own interests won't help the cause, though.

The space for computing freedom is small, especially on mobile devices (with the Pandora an exception). As such, it should be defended vehemently, and calls for Android, which seems not especially "open" in practice, or Windows 10, even worse, can be highly worrying. After all, without the Pandora/Pyra, what is there? The Nokia N900 (until the USB port breaks)? Those who want Android and/or Windows 10 (for whatever reason) tend to have many other choices on offer (indeed, this thread suggests yet another one).

The Pyra, as it seems it shall be, is precious. This is not only because of its good features, but also because of its freakdom and rarity: very few other devices, aside from the Pandora, hang around in the same region of the device possibility space -- even this proposed new GPD device is not tremendously close, for several reasons (not GNU/Linux -- by default, at least -- indeed the opposite with Windows 10, fewer ports and sockets, perhaps not so good a community for projects, probably less reparable or extensible).

 

[b_o_b]

Am I the EvilBloke?

Ha - of course you are. You evil and cunning tyrant.

In addition, if the GPD sells very well ED might use this money to create an even better shop/website/app-repository or Pyra.
And if he's bold he has the GPD branded, so you can still have an special ED device.

ED can surely ask a higher price than DX or Alibaba. He has proven to be reliable and gives unrivalled customer service. On the other hand, it needs to be seen if that is a good idea.
If the device is running android or windows and attracts the 'non technical' user then it might not be worth selling it. Those users expect a device that runs perfectly and every glitch will be causing mayhem. I am not talking about the Dingoonity community btw because I think they are also used to tweak their devices. But having an Android or Windows device immediately sets expectations to new users and you need to be sure they can be met.
Linux users usually expect needing to configure software - run into problems - wait for bugfixes - solve their own problems. So you can basically start with beta software and just solve issues along the way.

 

[pmprog]

As such, it should be defended vehemently, and calls for Android, which seems not especially "open" in practice, or Windows 10, even worse, can be highly worrying.

Case in point... What exactly needs defending? You're still getting a Linux machine. Sure, I won't run Android or Win10, but if somebody else wants to, it doesn't affect me.

Those who want Android and/or Windows 10 (for whatever reason) tend to have many other choices on offer (indeed, this thread suggests yet another one).

Really? How many pocket pcs can you name these days?

 

[ZXDunny]

Isn't the reason that people on here dismiss the Android package as a bit crap because it's... well, a bit crap? It was a proof of concept, it's badly outdated and not a great fit for the Pandora.

I have several newer devices running the latest Android, and I love it. But not on the Pandora. Because it's crap.

D.

 

[Haraldur]

Case in point... What exactly needs defending? You're still getting a Linux machine. Sure, I won't run Android or Win10, but if somebody else wants to, it doesn't affect me.


Really? How many pocket pcs can you name these days?

I have nothing against some enterprising person trying to get Windows 10 to run on an x86_64 Pyra (except for the fact that Microsoft may get money from it in the long term and that otherwise innocent people might then get snooped upon by the said company while using their Pyra) -- in fact, I am mildly in favour (assuming practicality) of an x86_64 Pyra so that I could run software in WINE at full speed. I would, however, vastly prefer work towards GNU/Linux, which is still under-represented in consumer markets. Plus, if Windows and/or Android became popular enough on the Pyra, then EvilDragon would have cause to spend time and/or money on improving them, which would not then be used for GNU/Linux. So, it can harm me, in effect. Besides, if people like me said nothing, then all you would have are messages from people asking for Android and/or Windows and the market would follow. In history, the meek tend to lose.

How many pocket PCs? Well, aside from the Pyra and Pandora, the new GPD device, of course! Plus many of the past devices were Windows based. And if the Pyra becomes a really big deal, I would be entirely unsurprised if netbook history repeated itself: that is, within a couple of years, most handheld PCs on sale would come with some version of Windows (or Android, since that may be more dominant now). Hence, there is no need to demand a Windows/Android system now.

Of course, there is also a moral imperative to take the easier steps to protect the ignorant* from system malware (as Windows 10 and some Android distributions could fairly be described).

*"Ignorant" includes any that cannot install their own operating system, I think. Note that, for smartphones, or any other ARM device without a BIOS etc., I am "ignorant".

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

There has been an interminable deluge of android consoles in recent times. Yes ive been openly cynical about this on the forums. Not because I dislike android, my phones android, but because it was simply a gigantic cash grab with many pointless offerings - and because too many consoles diminisheswhat a console should be, unique and fun.

 

[EvilDragon]

On the other hand, people authentically like the pandora for it's features and benefits, or at least what they hear about it, but there is a very real group that feels it's too expensive. They might dismiss it as an option for them for reasons other than them being cheap asses, but I think it really comes down to that though.

The Classic Pandora is available for 150 EUR since 8 or 9 months now.
There will be some more, as soon as we finish building them.

That's the same price of the GCW, even a bit cheaper than the GPD XD.

 

[SNESFAN]

The Classic Pandora is available for 150 EUR since 8 or 9 months now.
There will be some more, as soon as we finish building them.

That's the same price of the GCW, even a bit cheaper than the GPD XD.

That price isn't too bad at all, admittedly I haven't been keeping a close eye on the price as I was thinking the price would only go up after production was done. Maybe some will jump at that opportunity.

Are the 1ghz units still going for around 500 USD?

 

[FBnil]

Thanks SnesFan and WizardStan, very informative and engaging conversation.

oh... and happy new year!

 

[Haraldur]

But you're just getting "defensive" for no reason. The Pyra is primarily a Linux machine, ED has even mentioned Android being a possible "secondary" option. If ED turned around and said "It's now Android", I would imagine a large portion of his user-base would be mightily upset and potentially ruin the Pyra's sales. So feeling the need to defend something that's so unlikely you're almost able to say it's impossible just sounds like you're against the other options.



And that's about your choice, and the GPD doesn't have a keyboard. All the old CE devices are no longer manufactured and more than likely unsupported


So you hate Microsoft for intrusive checking of their computer and automatic updates that will potentially keep them safe (despite what else they may do), but you want to "protect" those users by restricting their choice of OS to something they potentially don't want?

Interesting thought...

Yes, of course ED would not change course now, but if, in the last two years, there had been the same amount of calls for Android as an/the OS, this time without the dissenting views ("defensiveness"), ED may (quite reasonably) have made a different decision. If everybody likes Android, or at least objects not, surely one should make Android the primary system.

I referred to the new GPD device, the one about which we have this thread.

I have no particular wish to restrict the choice of people to install their own preferred OS (providing that they have the technical ability to do so) -- if anything, I would prefer that OSes like Windows 10 would not exist. The argument is about what OSes get "official" support. GNU/Linux on the desktop almost never gets such support, yet installing it is a relatively simple procedure.

When it is likely that many users cannot or will not install their own OS, it is morally right (assuming near-equal utility) to choose a default that does no harm. It would, of course, be cool to be able to install a new OS as simply as on an x86_64 PC (are we? I know not), but there is no need to provide special alternative OSes -- especially if such effort may worsen the quality of the main OS.

 

[Binky]

Discussion not directly related to the GPD clamshell palmtop has been moved here:
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/th...n-minded-split-from-gpd-palmtop-thread.76795/

 

[vcoleiro1]

Discussion not directly related to the GPD clamshell palmtop has been moved here:
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/th...n-minded-split-from-gpd-palmtop-thread.76795/

Good stuff, although a lot of that conversation seems to be still in this thread