GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[SNESFAN]

This looks pretty cool I think. I have confidence this will see the light of day sometime in 2016 based off their ability to produce devices, their other devices seem very unique and go against the norm and each of their unconventional ideas seem to do better the more unconventional it is.

I personally think this will be their best selling device to date by a lot.

From me as a consumer's perspective, this gives an alternative to the pyra if I don't want to be forced into using Linux. This community doesn't embrace stuff like android and openly despises Windows. So for those that want something like the pyra, but doesn't want the mentality, they will soon have an option. I wish both communities were as open minded, but dingoonity people mostly look down upon this community as elitist, just as this community looks down on the android users there as being blubbering idiots.

If you guys are worried about losing customers to something like this GPD thing, expand the capabilities of the pyra, make it more appealing in software. Dual booting android would be appealing to more people instead of saying you'll look into running it emulated. Make a x86 upgrade module and run Windows yourself as an option. No, competition is only a good thing for consumers, it makes closed minded groups expand their horizons to meet more people's needs or they won't succeed.

Hoping this goes away or fails because it would be appealing to some people is not the correct way to look at this situation.

 

[EvilDragon]

I have no idea why communities would despise, but oh well.

Competition usually IS good - if both companies can afford it.
And there is a problem: I am perfectly fine spending money to improve the Pyra in the future, both in software and hardware.
Be it x86, Android dualboot or whatever, I'm fine spending money here.

However, thanks to Craigs Pandora mess, we're still on the brink.
Right now, I'm happy that I was able to fund everything up to the prototype, so we have at least working units which will make sales easier.

There is no money left to fund special software development or a new CPU board.
That solely depends on the sales, so if we lose too many sales there won't be money left for improvements.
So instead of competition, it would be a regression here.

Competition is good, if both companies can afford it. But if one is huge and the other one small, it's not really a competition anymore

Of course, I'll try the best I can, but I'm only one single person - luckily with a great community as support.

A different question:
What's so unique about GPD devices?
I've never had one. I tried contacting them to become a reseller in Germany half a year ago but never got a reply, so I don't know.
I know the quality is good, but what's unique?
The XD looks like a modified 3DS case with some Android PCB - what's special here?

 

[Stouffa]

I bought a GPD XD as the price was cheap enough and I had a good amount of Android games built up that I preferred to try play with a physical controller. What seems like the usual issues arise as its Android with emulators etc, some are much more polished than others, and some that we take for granted on the Pandora don't seem to exist! There's a few of the multi emulator setups that I've not gotten to work properly or they continually crash. The screen is very good with no apparent ghosting. In some ways I view it as a preview of what I hope the Pyra will achieve. Reicast runs better (as expected) with some of my games running near flawlessly at 60fps. PSP emulation still varies game to game, there's a lot of improvements to come there surely (I don't mind Reicast being rough and ready as that's early in development yet)

Outside of emulation , the best games I have for the XD so far include GTA Vice City and San Andreas, they play in remastered HD at full speed so that's very impressive! The analogue nubs are good but the D pad isn't a patch on the Pandora. I do like the shoulder buttons, they're very old school micro switch sounding.

There's some odd design decisions on the XD in my opinion, the main base is very blank and the gaming controls could be better. I also think they should have a magnetic lock to put the console automatically into standby when the device is closed. As for the dingoonity forum, I've only skimmed it, it seems like a lot of the XD users are new enough to Android.

All in all,I do like the GPD, I think the Pyra will be able to match all of its capabilities and more. While I don't know if the Pyra will get much Android functionality (would be good though), it'll surpass it on range and potential use. I don't know how the exact specifications of both compare, but I'm sure the Pyra will be a lot more efficient due to less OS software overheads

Hope this is a reasonable review of the device from my experience anyway

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[vcoleiro1]

A different question:
What's so unique about GPD devices?
I've never had one. I tried contacting them to become a reseller in Germany half a year ago but never got a reply, so I don't know.
I know the quality is good, but what's unique?
The XD looks like a modified 3DS case with some Android PCB - what's special here?

Huh, I emailed them yesterday to get some details on being a seller here in Australia. They emailed me back within 2 hours with their wholesale pricing and an application request form. They have actively been posting on Dingoonity to get people from around the world to sell their stuff. Almost begging. Not sure what went wrong for you. Try them again. The email to contact them about it, is here in this thread: http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-devices/develop-local-distributor!!!/


In regards to whats unique about it, well it's a rare Android pocketable clamshell (how many of those are there), with a good SOC, great screen, great huge 6000mAh battery that gives great battery life with analogue sticks rather than nubs. Also has a 64GB option which is nice. All that for a cheap price Pretty good in my eyes

 

[SNESFAN]

I have no idea why communities would despise, but oh well.

Competition usually IS good - if both companies can afford it.
And there is a problem: I am perfectly fine spending money to improve the Pyra in the future, both in software and hardware.
Be it x86, Android dualboot or whatever, I'm fine spending money here.

However, thanks to Craigs Pandora mess, we're still on the brink.
Right now, I'm happy that I was able to fund everything up to the prototype, so we have at least working units which will make sales easier.

There is no money left to fund special software development or a new CPU board.
That solely depends on the sales, so if we lose too many sales there won't be money left for improvements.
So instead of competition, it would be a regression here.

Competition is good, if both companies can afford it. But if one is huge and the other one small, it's not really a competition anymore

Of course, I'll try the best I can, but I'm only one single person - luckily with a great community as support.

A different question:
What's so unique about GPD devices?
I've never had one. I tried contacting them to become a reseller in Germany half a year ago but never got a reply, so I don't know.
I know the quality is good, but what's unique?
The XD looks like a modified 3DS case with some Android PCB - what's special here?

I don't think you'll have anything to worry about, the customers you are losing are the ones that probably wouldn't buy the pyra anyway, or would buy then resell it on eBay after a couple months I think. Sure there's bound to be a few new to, or never used Linux that might have kept and learned and enjoyed, but I think the vast majority of customers are going to be those that know what they are getting and see the specific appeal it has to offer.

And for those that don't care about the underlying features and just want a pocket gaming computer, market the things that make the pyra unique or what you see as better, things that would appeal to that person if you can't afford to expand the capabilities.

I do remember at one point you were committed to providing android in some form, but that seems to have gone by the waist side. I guess you got to draw the line somewhere, but don't color me surprised is all I'm saying.

I did say from a consumer perspective, and I truly am sorry if this does eat into your total sales, but I can't see it as damaging as if a literal clone being manufactured would. This is almost a literal alternative to the things the pyra is not.

To answer your questions, GPD as a company is unique in a way that you also have, community interaction. They seem to genuinely care about customer feedback. As devices are concerned, they are all above average quality and come in unique form factors, the G5 and G7 were cool because they looked like actual controllers inside a handheld. And if you dismiss the XD as being a modified 3DS, I challenge you to identify another device that offers mostly the same features in the same form factor. One could say the pandora was just a smaller netbook, but then the same challenge of saying, show me something similar comes up.

I would never go as far as to say true innovators, but they are unique when compared to the android PSP clone nameless devices that seem to have exploded into the market.

 

[EvilDragon]

Huh, I emailed them yesterday to get some details on being a seller here in Australia. They emailed me back within 2 hours with their wholesale pricing and an application request form. They have actively been posting on Dingoonity to get people from around the world to sell their stuff. Almost begging. Not sure what went wrong for you. Try them again. The email to contact them about it, is here in this thread: http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-devices/develop-local-distributor!!!/

Well, when I tried, I used the email address on their website... maybe that's the issue. I'll try again.

In regards to whats unique about it, well it's a rare Android pocketable clamshell (how many of those are there), with a good SOC, great screen, great huge 6000mAh battery that gives great battery life with analogue sticks rather than nubs. Also has a 64GB option which is nice. All that for a cheap price Pretty good in my eyes

Yes, the quality and price is good, that's what I mentioned
Are clamshell devices so unique? I've seen so many PSP / Vita-like Android devices coming from China, I thought there would be a lot of 3DS-looking-like ones as well, except for that the GPD ones are finally proper quality (which is great, but not unique in my opinion )

I don't think you'll have anything to worry about, the customers you are losing are the ones that probably wouldn't buy the pyra anyway, or would buy then resell it on eBay after a couple months I think. Sure there's bound to be a few new to, or never used Linux that might have kept and learned and enjoyed, but I think the vast majority of customers are going to be those that know what they are getting and see the specific appeal it has to offer.

Ah, well, I wouldn't be too sure. Some might want a small miniature PC for emails, office, etc. Those don't care whether it runs Linux or Windows as long as it can run proper desktop stuff, so if they know something like that is in development and for a cheaper price, they might wait as well.
I sure hope it won't cause much issues, but I'm always a bit pessimistic with stuff like that (prepare for the worst, so there's a Plan B. If the worst doesn't happen and you don't need Plan B: Even better )
I'd rather sell both so everyone can choose whatever he likes better

I do remember at one point you were committed to providing android in some form, but that seems to have gone by the waist side. I guess you got to draw the line somewhere, but don't color me surprised is all I'm saying.

Not Android, something like Alien Dalvikware. For a system like the Pyra, running a desktop OS makes more sense, but it would be nice to have some Android apps running fine as well.
DualBoot is annoying, as it takes time to boot and you can't use all your apps at once, so something like running Android apps in the normal OS makes more sense.
I still like to look into that, but first, money is needed for that.

To answer your questions, GPD as a company is unique in a way that you also have, community interaction. They seem to genuinely care about customer feedback.

That's great
I thought Dingoo and Jooyou tried that as well, but it didn't really work out. Seems like GPD are doing a better job here

And if you dismiss the XD as being a modified 3DS, I challenge you to identify another device that offers mostly the same features in the same form factor.

Well, I'm not the only one who mentioned that lookalike:
http://www.geek.com/news/new-androi...endo-3ds-xl-without-the-3d-or-the-ds-1625685/

Looks like their devices so far all copied the look of other handhelds (which could be problematic if I try to import them to Germany - devices that look like other devices are not allowed, so it could very well be that customs wouldn't let the XD through to me).

About features: What features does it offer that other chinese look-alike Android devices (like JXD, etc.) don't offer, what's unique?

Again: I'm not talking about the quality, I've got a JXD myself and know that the quality is crappy, unlike the GPD stuff (at least from what I heard) )
So if the combination of a look-alike, Android-device and quality is what you call unique, then I can understand it, it's just that I have a different view of what unique means

One could say the pandora was just a smaller netbook, but then the same challenge of saying, show me something similar comes up.

Well, it is, except for the added gaming controls And I always said it's basically just a netbook in pocket size
But there are so many chinese Android devices that look like popular consoles, so it doesn't sound so unique to me

I would never go as far as to say true innovators, but they are unique when compared to the android PSP clone nameless devices that seem to have exploded into the market.

You mean because of the quality?

 

[Exophase]

I did say from a consumer perspective, and I truly am sorry if this does eat into your total sales, but I can't see it as damaging as if a literal clone being manufactured would. This is almost a literal alternative to the things the pyra is not.

I think this is pretty optimistic...

Pandora (and presumably Pyra) IMO had three major sales points: good gaming controls (dpad in particular better than pretty much anything else), keyboard, and Linux. If a device can hit all of these targets and do so with a better/more efficient SoC and a price of under $300 then I don't see how Pyra won't lose significant sales volume. For that not to happen this would have to do really badly on one of the above major points. I know it's Windows 10 and not Linux but it'll probably not be hard to either dual boot or virtualize Linux. And Windows 10 means access to a much bigger gaming library.

There are still some other benefits for Pyra that this probably wouldn't have, like dual full-size SD and I doubt it'll have comparable battery capacity. But there's a good chance it'll have other advantages, like a better industrial design and there's a higher possibility it'll have a dock out early.

 

[SNESFAN]

Well, when I tried, I used the email address on their website... maybe that's the issue. I'll try again.
I'd rather sell both so everyone can choose whatever he likes better

this truly sounds like the best plan if the end goal is devices sold, or meeting customer demand rather than promoting a specific product over another.

Well, when I tried, I used the email address on their website... maybe that's the issue. I'll try again.
Well, I'm not the only one who mentioned that lookalike:
http://www.geek.com/news/new-androi...endo-3ds-xl-without-the-3d-or-the-ds-1625685/

Looks like their devices so far all copied the look of other handhelds (which could be problematic if I try to import them to Germany - devices that look like other devices are not allowed, so it could very well be that customs wouldn't let the XD through to me).

About features: What features does it offer that other chinese look-alike Android devices (like JXD, etc.) don't offer, what's unique?

Again: I'm not talking about the quality, I've got a JXD myself and know that the quality is crappy, unlike the GPD stuff (at least from what I heard) )
So if the combination of a look-alike, Android-device and quality is what you call unique, then I can understand it, it's just that I have a different view of what unique means

I'm not saying you're coining the phrase, but there has to be a line where one product can borrow some features from another enough to where it is unique. The pandora has lots of features it borrows from other devices. I also think the XD has crossed that boundary and is unique in it's own regard, but maybe not as unique. I can see where overlap exists compared to other devices though. But the 3DS being the closed system with a different control scheme vs a open system running a more full featured operating system and console like controls. The comparison between the pandora and the nintendo ds with a keyboard used to go around as well as I'm sure you are aware.

The uniqueness of the XD over other JXD and stuff is like I said before is very specifically the clam shell form factor. Just like the G5 and G7 that they made before the XD was unique in it's own way because of their form factors. If you don't see that, then I don't know what to tell ya.

If you're looking to compare internals or operating systems as features, what makes smartphones, tablets, or PC's different from each other if you don't consider the externals... not a whole lot. Consumer electronics have stuff people want like HDMI and and expandable storeage, but I would never say because you have those features people want that they become the same device. It's not a black and white classification.

I would call the pandora an innovative device because of the mix of netbook and gaming handheld, I would never argue that. And it's also unique in that regard, but the thing is it's more than just unique. I think there's a whole spectrum of identifiers that you could use to describe things "clone", "similar", "standard", "unique", "innovative", "revolutionary" I'm sure there's others that fit in between. But to only say there's clones, and unique products is not giving the rest of the industry credit.

Short answer, the combination of the form factor, large battery, control style and operating system as features in the same device are what makes it unique compared to PSP-esque devices.

 

[b_o_b]

How much a new Windows device will affect sales also depends on the ability of GPD to attract developers. This community is built by techies and developers. Without developers in your community you will have to pay people to develop customized stuff or accept a generic solution.
A generic solution will probably not work for Windows programs, maybe for Android but that will last as long as GPD will support upgrading the firmware.
Pandora is quite amazing in that regard - a device that is basically 7 years old and still has free firmware updates and new software releases.

 

[SNESFAN]

How much a new Windows device will affect sales also depends on the ability of GPD to attract developers. This community is built by techies and developers. Without developers in your community you will have to pay people to develop customized stuff or accept a generic solution.
A generic solution will probably not work for Windows programs, maybe for Android but that will last as long as GPD will support upgrading the firmware.
Pandora is quite amazing in that regard - a device that is basically 7 years old and still has free firmware updates and new software releases.

I have always felt windows devices(tablets, laptops etc) don't need dedicated developers for your device for you to be a successful user of that device unlike things like the pandora. A similar situation for android devices.

A windows PC needs less tender loving care than the pandora as far as software you can get to run on it, I see absolutely no difference.

Example... want to run minecraft? just download and run minecraft, done. Want to run minecraft on the pandora? wait for the port (that already exists, but the point someone had to port it remains)

 

[b_o_b]

Android software is usually created for small screens too but I don't think that is the case for Windows so I assume customization is needed for Windows programs to fully enjoy them.

 

[SNESFAN]

Android software is usually created for small screens too but I don't think that is the case for Windows so I assume customization is needed for Windows programs to fully enjoy them.

I don't agree, as long as they don't use some obscure resolution, I feel it should be fine. I think there's a huge difference between optimizations to applications that just work, and porting of applications to different architectures. One is sometimes not even needed where the other is always absolutely needed to get the same application running.

 

[EvilDragon]

I have always felt windows devices(tablets, laptops etc) don't need dedicated developers for your device for you to be a successful user of that device unlike things like the pandora. A similar situation for android devices.

A windows PC needs less tender loving care than the pandora as far as software you can get to run on it, I see absolutely no difference.

Example... want to run minecraft? just download and run minecraft, done. Want to run minecraft on the pandora? wait for the port

Yes and no.
Many Windows games are made for mouse usage.
The GPD will probably use a capacitive touchscreen. Does it work that well? The clickable areas in games might be too small for fingers.

If not, can the nubs be easily used as a mouse? I haven't tried Win10, but I don't think it works with Win7, so you'd need some mouse driver for the nubs. One, that can easily switch between joystick and mouse mode, because you also want to use them as joystick device.

Also, modern Windows games are often created to run on 1080p screens. Text might be unreadable on the 5,5" display if the game is simply being run unmodified.
And how fast do they run?

There are many small (and maybe even bigger things) to be solved as well.

What I always loved about the Pandora (and in general: gaming handhelds and consoles) is that the games released there are optimized to run there.
No fiddling with the controls, no huge setup, no trial and error to see if the game would actually run fast enough, etc.

That's the reason I stopped playing on computers after the Amiga died and moved on to consoles - I found it annoying that - depending on the sound and graphics card - you had different sound or graphics, and sometimes the game wouldn't even run at all.
That doesn't happen if stuff is specifically created for one handheld.

Therefore, that "simply install stuff and run" can also have downsides.
I prefer: Install and play except for Install, try to see if it works, setup the controls, play.

But that's me

And... don't know if Windows has improved, but I remember it slowing down and being cluttered after installing / deinstalling lots of things... I don't want to know what that will mean if I try out 200 games and only keep the ones I want to play

 

[Yoyobuae]

Example... want to run minecraft? just download and run minecraft, done. Want to run minecraft on the pandora? wait for the port (that already exists, but the point someone had to port it remains)

Actually, it's 3 steps for most programs:

1. Download
2. Install
3. Run

During the install step the program can copy files anywhere (and you can't easily know where), make modifications to the registry, etc. Basically you hand over control of your PC to the program installer. Then removing the program relies on the uninstaller provided, which may or may not remove every trace left of the program.

In simple words: Windows lacks a proper packaging system.

 

[EvilDragon]

I don't agree, as long as they don't use some obscure resolution, I feel it should be fine.

Ever tried reading an 8px font on a 1080p 5,5" screen?

I did - when testing a 5" 1080p screen for the Pyra.
The icons and taskbar was so small on that screen I immediately decided to use a 720p screen.

Windows games are often created for high-resolutions 18" and higher screens. This can cause issues on small screens.
[doublepost=1451434558,1451434301][/doublepost]

During the install step the program can copy files anywhere (and you can't easily know where), make modifications to the registry, etc. Basically you hand over control of your PC to the program installer. Then removing the program relies on the uninstaller provided, which may or may not remove every trace left of the program.

In simple words: Windows lacks a proper packaging system.

Hmm, this reminds me of something else:
I've seen Windows 10 die on a PC today, it didn't boot anymore and the included System Restore was not able to get it to boot again.
The only way was to reinstall it.

That's one more thing the GPD needs to take care about: Reinstallation. Can you simply boot from a USB device and install it like a normal PC?

 

[SNESFAN]

Yes and no.
Many Windows games are made for mouse usage.
The GPD will probably use a capacitive touchscreen. Does it work that well? The clickable areas in games might be too small for fingers.

If not, can the nubs be easily used as a mouse? I haven't tried Win10, but I don't think it works with Win7, so you'd need some mouse driver for the nubs. One, that can easily switch between joystick and mouse mode, because you also want to use them as joystick device.

Also, modern Windows games are often created to run on 1080p screens. Text might be unreadable on the 5,5" display if the game is simply being run unmodified.
And how fast do they run?

There are many small (and maybe even bigger things) to be solved as well.

What I always loved about the Pandora (and in general: gaming handhelds and consoles) is that the games released there are optimized to run there.
No fiddling with the controls, no huge setup, no trial and error to see if the game would actually run fast enough, etc.

That's the reason I stopped playing on computers after the Amiga died and moved on to consoles - I found it annoying that - depending on the sound and graphics card - you had different sound or graphics, and sometimes the game wouldn't even run at all.
That doesn't happen if stuff is specifically created for one handheld.

Therefore, that "simply install stuff and run" can also have downsides.
I prefer: Install and play except for Install, try to see if it works, setup the controls, play.

But that's me

And... don't know if Windows has improved, but I remember it slowing down and being cluttered after installing / deinstalling lots of things... I don't want to know what that will mean if I try out 200 games and only keep the ones I want to play

You make very valid points on the total user experience. Having a open-closed system in some regards (being optimized ports exist specifically for the device) has it's merits. The point I was making is that you could in theory just run any application without a developer getting their hands dirty. The pandora/pyra in this regard will be superior because of it's dedicated devleoper base. However if you look at it from the perspective of total titles possible to be ran without developers having to consider this specific device it would be much more.

I would argue for the mobile device realm though android has the interface portion of the argument won, but loses out when considering capabilities. The pandora does offer a nice blend of usability and interface everything considered.

Actually, it's 3 steps for most programs:

1. Download
2. Install
3. Run

During the install step the program can copy files anywhere (and you can't easily know where), make modifications to the registry, etc. Basically you hand over control of your PC to the program installer. Then removing the program relies on the uninstaller provided, which may or may not remove every trace left of the program.

In simple words: Windows lacks a proper packaging system.

point taken, but I think this arugement goes outside the scope of my argument that developers need not get involved in you running your chosen application on this device vs another.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Hmm, this reminds me of something else:
I've seen Windows 10 die on a PC today, it didn't boot anymore and the included System Restore was not able to get it to boot again.
The only way was to reinstall it.

That's one more thing the GPD needs to take care about: Reinstallation. Can you simply boot from a USB device and install it like a normal PC?

Me and my friends had a special name for this operation: Performat.

Formatting (and reinstalling) in order to recover lost performance from "old" Windows installs.

 

[SNESFAN]

That's one more thing the GPD needs to take care about: Reinstallation. Can you simply boot from a USB device and install it like a normal PC?

I think you should be able to, you can boot to microsd on the XD. If this device is x86 I can't see why it wouldn't use an UEFI where you could set boot priority, I can do this on my windows tablet.

 

[lukey]

In simple words: Windows lacks a proper packaging system.

Well there's Steam.....

 

[Exophase]

Well there's Steam.....

And this IMO pretty much negates everything else.

There are lots of Windows games that won't fit well on this device because of lack of non-mouse or small screen considerations, but most of the games I have on Steam would work great on it. And chances are that at best only a few of them will be ported to Pyra. This is coming from a Linux user, if I had native Windows the Steam situation would be even more favorable.

If I got this device I'd probably slap a VMed Linux distro on it (like Mint) and use that for most non-gaming functions and possibly a few gaming functions. It's a more DIY software solution and that may turn off some people compared to Pyra, but on the other hand I think Pyra attracts a lot of DIY types anyway.