EvilDragon's Pre-Order Survey Thread

[WizardStan]

I don't want to insult your intelligence, but do you understand what an analogy is? Do you know how to take one situation that is easy to explain and apply it to something that is more complex?

 

[BeefJerky]

Analogies have to be representative of the situation in order to have relevance.

 

[ponlork]

I'm not calling you a fool but it's foolish to think that when someone purchases a item you look at it as loaning money. The way you desperately try to defend them and try to insult the consumer is sickening. Any other website who viewed this situation from an impartial standpoint will view your logic as a joke and you know it. But yeah just go ahead and ridicule the consumer who had absolutely nothing to do with the company's incompetence and just say.. tough luck. Pay extra or consider it a donation. What kind of ish is that? Slap yourself bro.

I've visited the forums on and off over the years, the way everybody defend every little mishap is a joke  I know it's good to remain optimistic, but to just lie down and accept whatever excuse they give you is pretty dumb.

 

[WizardStan]

I'm not calling you a fool but it's foolish to think that when someone purchases a item you look at it as loaning money

That "loan" thing was an analogy, a simple example to try and explain the more complex situation. If you replace "loan" with "purchase" it is basically the exact same thing. I even gave a second analogy involving Walmart and Target.

The way you desperately try to defend them and try to insult the consumer is sickening.

You still don't get it at all. I am not defending "them", I am defending EvilDragon. Craig took your money, Craig screwed up, Craig's company is the one that owes you a Pandora or a refund, Craig's company is the one that is going out of business. There is no "they" to defend, there is no "they" to demand money from: "they" are two completely different entities, like Walmart and Target, that simply worked together on a marketing strategy. Why are you blaming Walmart for the mistakes of Target, especially when Walmart is offering you, out of the goodness of their heart and absolutely no legal requirement, a way in which you can in some way put that money that you lost to use. What do you expect, for Walmart to take a complete loss on the sale and just give you a console even though it was Target that screwed up?And just in case it wasn't clear, this is still an analogy: I am not literally talking about Walmart and Target, I know you didn't give any money to Target for a WiiPlayBox 84, such a thing doesn't exist, it is a made up example to simplify the situation and try to explain it in an impartial way that you may understand better. Replace "Walmart" with "EvilDragon" and "Target" with "Craigix", and "WiiPlayBox" with "Pandora" and it's the same situation.

 

[ponlork]

Whatever the excuse is I don't care. Can't you see who's name is behind what is pointless? You think I care if EvilRyu, Criaig or whoever was behind what. I don't need all that explanation, this is about money not clearing who they or he or who what was. I don't care about that egocentric crap. I said they as in whoever's in charge. Enough with the meaningless information. All I know is I purchased it from this site, it could be They, he, She, It i could care less. it was from this site.
 

A bunch of brainwashed mindless sheep if you ask me. Take it as a learning lesson, accept your mistake, own up to it. And quit trying to place blame on the customer and rush to defend EvilRyu like he's supposed to be somebody of importance. I could give two squirts of piss who Craig or ryu is. It aint about them. So cancel all that bs

 

[BeefJerky]

It's really not the same thing and the analogies are misplaced. Use the actual scenarios and the names rather than trying to skirt around them and you'll find much more relevance and remove the need for this much explanation when, as you say, an analogy should help simplify rather than complicate the understanding.

 

[Fzero]

I was in same boat as you ponlork, up until just a couple weeks ago when I managed to aside the extra money to finally update via EDs offering.


When we placed our preorders it was for something which at that moment didn't even exist, our money was to make it happen, then shit happened... Way it is, unfortunately.


Either way we all down a bit, or that extra bit more out of pocket, personally I'm glad ED offered his upgrade rather than just be a complete loss.


If you don't really need or want it now, have you considered paying the extra £80, getting your Pandora and extras, then selling it all on ebay?


You'd probably get most your money back wouldn't you? Ok probably not all of it but hopefully would only have wasted a little cash and not hundreds...


Situation is far from ideal but nevertheless is where we at.


I don't know what other options exist really, Craig, or Open Pandora Ltd UK I'm sure won't be compensating unfortunately

 

[PokeParadox]

Likewise I was explaining the situation... yes I know it sucks but the situation is what it is... I do get that Craig lost your money and I don't expect you to like that.

I was saying that the Pandora community are donating to ED to try and help clear the remaining preorders...

 

[ponlork]

I'm a understanding person, I just don't like it when companies don't own up to anything and are quick to start making excuses and tell the customer to deal with it. That's what I'm mainly offended by. Money can come and go, but the way people would skirt around the issue and how everybody just willingly accepts whatever they throw at us. That's the part that get me irked.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Is there an up to date figure as to how many of Craig's preorders still remain?

 

[WizardStan]

And quit trying to place blame on the customer and rush to defend EvilRyu like he's supposed to be somebody of importance

You still aren't understanding even one bit of what I've said. We aren't blaming the customer in any way, we are trying to tell you exactly where to place the blame. The blame isn't on the customer, the blame isn't on EvilDragon, the blame rests squarely on the person you purchased from: Craig Rothwell.There is nothing anyone here can do for you. EvilDragon is a completely different company who happens to also be selling Pandoras but that is it.

Let me ask you, would you be happier if EvilDragon didn't exist? Suppose the situation was exactly this: there was only one company selling the Pandora and that company went out of business. Finito, nothing more. There just isn't the money so they send you an email saying "sorry, but that's it, there is no money and we won't be able to send anything. No money for Pandoras, no money for refunds".

What would your reaction be in such a scenario?

 

[BeefJerky]

Ah WizardStan, now that you've used the actual situation, I get what you're saying and I agree. Given the circumstances, EvilDragon has been awesome and has earned the respect and trust he has received - something Craig never did, even back when this all started.


It's hard to know what would have helped but, early on, I actually think some of the rushes to defend the situations (Craig's, not ED's) we're actually more damaging in allowing the problems to compound. It was obvious so early on that Craig was not participating in any meaningful way in the community, offering only silence or misinformation. By 2010, the situation had gone so far beyond tolerable and yet still the faith was strong. Craig never earned that faith, not from day one. And I think it allowed things to go on that just shouldn't have - optimism is not always a good thing. That we're here in 2013 with some of us still never having our 2008 order, well that's just ridiculous. Scam or farce? I don't know but it's one or the other.


EvilDragon has been great and has shown real support for those of us caught in Craig's mess. Communication was always open and, in that way, he did what Craig never could - be part of the community and earn that trust.

 

[worldcitizen]

I had to order it from the UK

You didn't "have to", at the time (I was in the first batch) I was in Belgium and choose to order from ED's shop because he allowed bank transfer payment.

Nobody forced me to choose either shop.

Yes I really had to at that time (position 3900-4000).

I even went to ED shop when I selected that I wanted to order I was directed the Craigs shop. I was forced to, I didn't have any option to choose the DE shop.

I also payed via bank transfer to Craigs shop (the UK shop) also allowed that, at the time.

 

[worldcitizen]

Well, you didn't lose your money, you can still get the upgrade to the 1GHz unit. Yes, that does cost money, but your original payment + the upgrade payment is cheaper than the 1GHz price when the unit has been released.

Hi EvilDragon,

How much will the Upgrade cost. Is it still the price I choose in the survey?

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, you didn't lose your money, you can still get the upgrade to the 1GHz unit. Yes, that does cost money, but your original payment + the upgrade payment is cheaper than the 1GHz price when the unit has been released.

How much will the Upgrade cost. Is it still the price I choose in the survey?

Yes, you can still use any value to upgrade using community donations (takes a while) or 300 EUR without any community help and get it right away. 

It's hard to know what would have helped but, early on, I actually think some of the rushes to defend the situations (Craig's, not ED's) we're actually more damaging in allowing the problems to compound. It was obvious so early on that Craig was not participating in any meaningful way in the community, offering only silence or misinformation.

True, and I really wish I would've known that earlier.

It never had been planned that I would be involved in the production process or anything, that was all Craigs doing.

And I've never talked to CC before we had the nub issue (2010, AFAIR).

I also thought Craig had bad luck and the companies were all trying to screw him - had I known of his misorganization before, maybe I would've done something about it... but he was pretty good covering some things even to me.

As soon as I really found out I tried to take over and move everything to Germany and organize it myself.

Well, if, if, if... now all we can do is try to move on and make the best of it.

 

[Klumpen]

I'm a understanding person

No you are not, you are unable to listen and just like a small recalcitrant ignorant boy that wants to blame someone, if the company to blame is not listening.

I just don't like it when companies don't own up to anything and are quick to start making excuses and tell the customer to deal with it.

I don't like these either and you still ignore, that these are two completely different companies that sold the same product and the analogy above is quite precise, but I already wrote that here.

excuses excuses. all i know is i bought it from this site. yes i'm aware there were difficulties but to just try and act like openpandora.org had zero fault at all is pretty irresponsible if you ask me.

Nobody here is excusing anything that the company that owes you money did, especcially not me.

This is a board and no shop, you didn't buy anything here. Of course we still use the boards address, because it's more or less the same community, not the same manufacturers of the product that these boards are about.

*sigh* By a certain age, you should be able to comprehend written language a lot better and it does not seem, that a language barrier is the problem here.

 

[monty]

Whatever the excuse is I don't care. Can't you see who's name is behind what is pointless? You think I care if EvilRyu, Criaig or whoever was behind what. I don't need all that explanation, this is about money not clearing who they or he or who what was. I don't care about that egocentric crap. I said they as in whoever's in charge. Enough with the meaningless information. All I know is I purchased it from this site, it could be They, he, She, It i could care less. it was from this site.

Unfortunately, Ponlork, the universe is not always so good as to provide a definite They, He, She or It who is squarely in charge & whom can be expected to sort out the situation or be punished for failing to do so. That is the case here. A web site is not a legal entity & often doesn't represent just a single legal entity. That is the case here. Two companies used this web site for their business. You purchased from one of those companies which has screwed you over. The other didn't, but is offering some meagre help, the best it can afford. No one expects you, in your position, to be anything but furious, but we like to ensure that fury is correctly addressed.

Honestly, we're all with you in your anger at being screwed over as many of us were in the same position at some point. It was a nightmare arrangement. But no matter how much you desire the opportunity to rant at some one who's in charge of the entire situation, who can be expected to carry the can for Craig despite not being him or legally responsible for him, there simply isn't any such person.

 

[Asiyura]

Yes I really had to at that time (position 3900-4000).

I even went to ED shop when I selected that I wanted to order I was directed the Craigs shop. I was forced to, I didn't have any option to choose the DE shop.

I also payed via bank transfer to Craigs shop (the UK shop) also allowed that, at the time.

I ordered my first batch pandora really late (initial contact with ED 28/10/2009, order setup on 10/11/09, payment completed the 16/11/09).I don't know when you tried, but people were able to order even later than me from ED.

 

[BeefJerky]

You purchased from one of those companies which has screwed you over. The other didn't, but is offering some meagre help, the best it can afford. No one expects you, in your position, to be anything but furious, but we like to ensure that fury is correctly addressed.

To be fair to him, there's a murky distinction there for the reasons you point out - two companies and a separate board community all part of the same address. It didn't apply to me as I'm not even sure this was all here when I ordered (maybe it was but at the time I had no choice but to order from Craig and that was the most visible company profile) but I can see how it would lead to confusion. The shop he ordered from appears to be selling at this address and these are the 'official' boards - and many missed what was being explained on the boards over the years because of Craig's total lack of communication or transparency, not sending email updates and presumably not supplying the contact lists to ED so he could keep people informed. Good of you to clear it up - I guess I'm just saying I can understand how he got there, especially adding the frustration and anger into the mix which, as you say is expected.

 

[darkborn]

Pay extra or consider it a donation.

I think that bolded above made all of this awkward situation. Ponlork, as any normal person, was not prepared for black humour as it is.

Surprise, surprise. This  donation "thing" (has nothing with ED) is internal bitter joke, "subtle" irony way to say "I'm scr*wd". Obviously, not enough subtle.

Ponlork, you are lucky one. Somebody could say to you "wait just for 2 months", and you, probably will... Because there is no normal person that will understand PandoraJunkies instantly.

And what about "other entity"?

EvilDragon is just a masochist who was so bored, so  that he decided to put his balls on fire so that people can yell on him instead on Craig. I do it regularly, and it helps. We are both lucky now. (disclaimer: before you find my identity and come to mock me, I humbly declare that it was sarcastic and full of irony of my sick phantasy. Still, some things stand as written.)

EDIT: actually I just found a recent "2 months" post. Ponlork, pretend that you got it and you have full rights to be angry. Well, just not @ED

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14882-theyre-throwing-in-the-towel/?p=288870/URL]