Enhancing desktop; Visuals, tweaks and installed software.


comradekingu

Glowing ember
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Apr 15, 2011
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portfolio.anotheragency.no
Lets try to gage interest and find something nice.


OS:Debian jessie 8.0 with

DE: Mate 1.14 Everyone can help translate Mate to their language now https://www.transifex.com/mate/MATE/

Xfce
4.12. Everyone can help translate Xfce to their language now https://www.transifex.com/organization/xfce/dashboard

Moonlight or Lxqt possibly LXDE These are qt(5) rather than gtk+ based



(Where two or more programs are listed it means help is needed to pick the best one)

UI: SimpliX style, Ivy -dev icons, axiom theme on window manager. RGB subpixel smoothing. Hinting on full. Sans font. My own background picture.

Desktop info: Conky with all hotkeys listed on desktop, like in crunchbang. Super+W for web browser super+f for file browser and so on.
Video-/Chat and voip: Pidgin (GTK+) with pidgin-otr and pidgin-zrtp, or empathy as they have otr too now. #pyra and #openpandora by default Possibly ToxGUI (Qt5) Venom (vala/gtk+) tox client if they get video/encryption working.

Mumble (Qt) Psi (Qt) or Psi+ (Qt)
Dock and menus: Standard xfce4-panel: Good for familiarity, dock in reach of thumbs.

System info: conky http://zagortenay333.deviantart.com/art/Conky-Harmattan-426662366 or system viewer http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=sysinfo.wb
Video: VLC (Qt) or MPV and livestreamer (VLC 0.8X style on VLC and Qt Configuration to make it gtk+ style.)
Music: Quod Libet(GTK+), noise (GTK+) Clementine (Qt) Tomahawk (Qt)
File manager: Thunar(GTK+) PCManFM (Qt)
Torrent-client: Transmission(GTK+) (Qt)

Image viewer: PIV.
Image manipulation: EasyPaint (Qt5) Gimp gnome-paint (1MB) mtpaint (gtk+) mypaint (gtk2)
Image processing: Darktable (GTK+)
Video editor: PiTivi (GTK+) Openshot (Qt)
Terminal emulator: Terminology, Terminator
Editor: Mousepad
Repository/package manager: Panda-manager, Synaptic, apt-get, aptitude, dpkg
Browser: Otter-Browser, Midori, iceweasel
Flash: Lightspark with fallback on gnash. Think lightspark depends on pulseaudio for sound, so thats hummm..
Init: OpenRC
Quickstart programs: exo-open, dmenu gmrun press Alt+f2 and f3 for quick access to starting a program.
Terminal/Ncurses apps: w3m cmus Toxic nano
Terminal-monospacefont:GNU unifont Terminus

Office suite: libreoffice abiword (gtk+) need presentation and spreadsheet program
Emulators and homebrew?
login manager?
Sound production: Audacious, sibelius.
Development: Codeblocks
Games:

Battle for wesnoth (inhouse might be a bit big)

https://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/ Wonderful small puzzle, should get C4A on this http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=squared!.gandi on repo

nubnubs wb japan-inhouse game

https://www.teeworlds.com/ (Liero-like)

Puzzletube Ziz puzzle inhouse game

Astromenace 3d-ish top-scrolling shooter

http://performous.org/ music game like http://www.stepmania.com/ but with more modes

http://www.pokerth.net/ (Cardgame)

http://neverball.org/ (and neverputt) (Golf)

https://code.google.com/p/micropolis/ Cimcity modern rendition of the classic one, there is also freeciv, openTTH and so on

http://www.worldofpadman.net (Shooter?)

https://wl.widelands.org (Turn based? RPG)

https://libregamewiki.org/Fish_Fillets_-_Next_Generation (Push-puzzle)

http://flarerpg.org (Diablo-like)

http://www.parallelrealities.co.uk/p/legend-of-edgar.html (Sizescroller platformer)

.

Work Needed: (Calls GL_DEPTH)

http://tesseract.gg (Dont think this can be ported, but nice FPS)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/chaosesqueanthology/ (FPS xonotic mod)

http://megaglest.org (RPG)

https://code.google.com/p/zero-k/ (RTS)

https://code.google.com/p/pink-pony/ (Racing)

Written in cumbersome language:

https://libregamewiki.org/Intricacy (Needs haskell compiler Puzzle)

http://www.hedgewars.org/( Needs freepascal compiler Worms-like)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintel_The_Game (blender engine!? but its about dragons)

Unknown:

http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=AquaVenture_iprice (inhouse license unknown)

Commercial:

http://superhexagon.com (costs 2.99 dolares) http://vittorioromeo.info/projects.html (alternative) http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=openhexagon_ptitseb on repo

http://www.frogatto.com (Costs $9.99)

http://unnamedmonkeygame.com (non-free) (costs money)

http://thelettervsixtim.es/ (non-free and commercial)

Looks good:

http://nuclearthrone.com/

Optional item: bootup animation (There are some good ones, depends on how long it takes to boot)
Optional item: sounds. http://cloudef.eu/armpit/renoise-test.ogg (no bootup sound unless exceptionally good and non-intrusive, could have a uniform one for inhouse ingame efforts)
Optional item: A video for introduction in ~/video.
Nice motd for terminal emulator. More background images. That cant hurt?


/Audio: Some nice chiptunes
/Documents: Quickstart manual, link to wiki, Declaration of conformity. (No paper wasted)
/Video: Intro video
/Images: Some relevant images, maybe put background images here.

Screenshot downsized from 1920x1200, so it doesn't look crisp

2hp80vm.jpg

Thoughts? Missing programs, improvements, ideas?

The act of fixing little things that are seemingly irrelevant and not obviously broken for the greater good of visuals that are uniform and make sense.
Done right its beautiful, done wrong it looks actively ugly.
This process starts at the ordering and information stage,continues with out of the box experience. And finally, and most importantly, the little improvements to make the device pleasant to use.
 
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Glyph Reader

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
332
This is interesting, but shouldn't this be in OS Development?  Not entirely sure. 

-Glyph Reader
 

thatgui

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,048
Lets try to gage interest and find something nice.
Depending on the frequency of reflashs that is expected to happen on the Pyra I would like to have a more modularized approach: As I experienced a lot of problems after incremental OS upgrades on the Pandora in the past, I developed a habit to make a full reflash with every OS Upgrade available. These problems are probably non existing anymore on the Pandora, but the habit is still there, and there is no guarantee that Pyras OS will not follow a similiar evolution.As I don't make a lot of alterations to the system itself, this wasn't a big deal for me as the applications I use come in pnds anyway, and most alterations can be reinstated by simply copying the appropriate files/folders into the home dir again.

But with the Pyras NAND beeing a lot bigger I expect myself to rely more on the distributions package management system for most applications, and maybe even partially for games /emus. So a lot more time would need to be invested to alter the system to reflect my preferences.

Looking at your proposals this would need additional time as I would need to remove most of the things you suggested. I don't want to devaluate your choices (they may be even more sensible, in terms of making choices for a broader audience), they are just not my cup of tea.

Examples:

- desktop environment: xfce is probably the most sensible choice as its not very resource heavy, provides a user experience similiar to Windows, thus providing more comfort from customers that are used to some form of MS Windows, and provides a familiar environment for "Pandora switchers". Personally, I will rather stick to Gnome3 just out of beeing accustomed to it as it is my primary desktop de, or I will switch to KDE as (it looks like) it can provide different user experiences for different use cases (a tradtional desktop, for stationary use, and something like "Plasma Active" for on the go usage).

- provided "resources": beeing it example video/audio/spreadsheat/whatever files, preset bookmarks/channels/etc, bootup animations, or the one thing, which right to exist I probably won't understand in my lifetime: sounds (especially a startup sound) are things that getting rid of is the first thing I do after the first bootup. All these things just cost resources and have no practical value at all for a more or less experienced user.

So what I personally would like to see would be that the installer is preset with just a minimum system that provides the basic tools that are needed. In the last step the installer should present a list of some predefined "packages" that expand the installation (and are basically just lists of software packages to install) .

These could be something like a "beginners package" that offers something in the line you proposed. The exact content could be choosen by the community, and refined based on feedback by new users.

In the long run I would like to see this extended to be more "personalized". Imagine you want to do a reflash, and after you have taken care of your personal data you start a program that lets you see a list of the additional packages you have installed. You select/deselect the things you want to have installed again after the reflash, and the program simply creates a "package" like the predefined ones and stores it on to a device of your choice (sd or usb). During reflash/reinstallion before showing you the last page, the installer searches for custom packages, and if he finds one, he presents you the question wether you want to go with your custom package or with a prebuilt one.

I'm also with Glyph reader: why did you choose to place it in here, and not in the OS development section ?
 
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comradekingu

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There is debian minimal, which is just the barebone stuff. Aside from that, a nice debian experience with all the programs is the main goal to deliver. A meta-package with for example wesnoth and more is also nice to have.

Debian by itself doesnt get ruined unless you make it so, gnome 3 or kde is an install away, and then you can login to that desktop environment in the login manager. All customization is in ./files in the home folder.  Getting rid of all of it is as easy as deleting all those hidden files.

I am 100% agreeing with you on obtrusive stuff, the bootup animation is pointless if it just adds time, arguably its nicer than just seeing console output, even if that has an upside too.

The jingle has potential for being annoying, but then again, remember that rare logo, and the sound, i do. Short, involving, to the point.

This isn't os development, since that is the heavy lifting, this is just customization, anyone can do that.

You have taken a lot of considerations for something to be wrong, this is about getting it right, out of the box.

Edit: While the "stable system is good enough" approach is ok, it isnt great. Many distributions have had success in making an effort visually and have things be consistent. Ubuntu in its day, ElementaryOS now, there is even a distro started by one of the icon theme communities.

Think what you will of that, but the mere notion that it exists, means people are willing to download and use it, and they care. And so they should.
 
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Silent-Hunter

Hardcore Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,485
I prefer to see console output on boot, but I could never figure out how to disable the splash on the Pandora without breaking the OS.

I think a jingle would be a bit much, but that's just me. To be honest, I would prefer to boot with console, and type startx to start the desktop, as that is what I do on my laptop.
 

WizardStan

Mega GP Mania
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
16,731
I could never figure out how to disable the splash on the Pandora
edit the file "/boot/autoboot.txt" and add "psplash=false" to the bootargs.ie, it should look something like this

setenv bootargs 'ubi.mtd=4 ubi.mtd=3 ...etc... quiet psplash=false';
 

Silent-Hunter

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Messages
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I tried that, and it wouldn't boot. It's not a huge deal, I just could not figure out why that does not work for me.
 

comradekingu

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Maybe just one tone, something to remember.

So if those programs were the default, everyone would be happy? We havent even had the obligatory 'which editor is the best' discussion.
 

Glyph Reader

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Apr 27, 2014
Messages
332
As long as vi, vim and emacs are in the repos, I see no problem. 

I am not sure what I would want boot-wise; however, the default should be reasonably friendly, then once in the OS, you could change the boot option (eg. console, console+startx, splash+startx, etc. )

-Glyph Reader
 

Granitehead

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Oct 16, 2009
Messages
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X should certainly be started by default, but I think it should display console output before X is started: People who know what that stuff means get the benefit of seeing it and knowing what is wrong in the case of problems, people who don't know it themselves can ask other people who do know. While everything is running fine, it's of no use to anyone, but it doesn't lower usability in any way. The most some people may argue is that it doesn't look good.

I (and I think a lot of other people here) don't care about that. Usability > Looks.
 

WizardStan

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May 24, 2008
Messages
16,731
I tried that, and it wouldn't boot. It's not a huge deal, I just could not figure out why that does not work for me.
It should work, big deal or not. If it doesn't it could be a sign of other hidden problems. Or maybe you just made a typo. Doesn't hurt to investigate quickly, eh?
but I think it should display console output before X is started
I'm happy the way the Pandora does it with the psplash parameter.
 

rygD

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Instead of a jingle maybe a crackling fire sound.  It isn't irritating if it is short, but it may be a stupid choice, I dunno.  Alternately, similar to the single tone idea, maybe a bass drum sound ("ba-boom").

Do either of those terminal emulators have settings to allow for single key, or dual-key for Pyra I guess, drop down and roll up?  I think Terminator can be set up that way...

I like the idea of having the channels set up by default in Pidgin.  It might get more people to join.  I have still not dropped by the IRC channel(s).
 

Grench

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Lets try to gage interest and find something nice.

Unboxing: I really like the idea of having a unit that doesnt depreciate value as you open the box. To remove the silly no-dust plastic bag, to remove the silly "screen protector" film, a cardboard box that you cant throw for sentimental reasons.

No fancy box that you have to keep, just the pyra, in a t2000 case from http://www.s3cases.com

Professional and utilitarian. No cruft. tiny usb cable in the case.
You want to eliminate the $3 in packaging materials and replace them with a $27 waterproof siege case for shipping?

Put stamps and an address label right on the outside of the siege case?  Keep it from getting opened in transit - how?  Tape?  Or still have a $3 shipping box around the $27 siege case?

No thanks.  If you want to buy a bulky fancy case to keep yours in, that's cool.  Making the rest of us buy one too - not cool.  

It's a clam shell pocket computer.  I plan to close the lid, put it in my pocket and walk on.
 

comradekingu

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Adding something new-user-friendly to the list for editor.

Grench:

No, i preferred the way the first pandora orders were shipped, standard brown cardboard box that could be recycled.

The hardened case is optional, but nevertheless my ideal idea of unboxing.

Didnt envision sending the case as the package, but that could work.

Edit: We have to imply the bulk price is somewhat less than the 1pc retail price on the t2000. However.

The work required to print out quickstart guide, put it in the case, design a case, also costs money, adds time, and is a potential fail.

The wooden cases for example, had a habit of either getting crushed, or crushing the contents.

Moreover, cardboard, while good, fails easier. The s3 t2000 case is waterproof (i think) and also protective. Which means less returns in the long run.

Since there is no AC adaptor this time around, it can be that small, which is smaller than equivalent cardboard ordeal, in turn saving postage.

A point could be made of this to not only have the case be recyclable, but also reusable.

And most importantly, getting two such cases myself yesterday, they add a quality feel to the experience.

Silent-hunter: Vi is installed per default, but for new-users its a bit too daunting. Also it reminds me of broken xorg, want something easy and plesant.

Vi(m) is very good at being an editor, but we have to cater to the people like me, who cant accept that in their life.
 
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slaeshjag

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The Pyra will require *at least* 2 amps from the USB port. This is something few computers and only tablet chargers have a chance of supplying. ED will need to ship an AC adapter with it.
 

thatgui

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Debian by itself doesnt get ruined unless you make it so, gnome 3 or kde is an install away, and then you can login to that desktop environment in the login manager. All customization is in ./files in the home folder.  Getting rid of all of it is as easy as deleting all those hidden files.
I can only draw from a past rich of debian derivates, but changing to another de usually left a lot of "residue" (de specific bins, configs,deamons) behind. Is that different with a "vanilla" debian ? I thought that the main reason for big distributions like Ubuntu or Mint offering different flavours of their distro (Gnome, KDE, xfce,Openbox, etc. editions) was becaus of that.

I am 100% agreeing with you on obtrusive stuff, the bootup animation is pointless if it just adds time, arguably its nicer than just seeing console output, even if that has an upside too.
Its even more pointless if you use the Pyra as intended, meaning you usually only put it to sleep, not turn it off. So just to be fancy you are spending work on something you probably won't see 80% of the time, while decreasing "usefullness" for the rest of the time as you hide information that may be of interest in that particular situation.

The jingle has potential for being annoying, but then again, remember that rare logo, and the sound, i do. Short, involving, to the point.
Instead of a jingle maybe a crackling fire sound. It isn't irritating if it is short, but it may be a stupid choice, I dunno. Alternately, similar to the single tone idea, maybe a bass drum sound ("ba-boom").
Why on someone or somethings green earth would you guys want to include someting that has absolutely no practical value (I know that the device is on already, I pushed the button and things start to appear on the screen) but increases inconvenience (developing a behaviour to always make sure that the volume is mute so you don't draw attention in quit environments)? Just you can memorize a jingle or a sound, what nonsens is that ? If you need to relate to brand just create your own jingle put on your favourite music listening device at put it on endless loop > same ffect, but no one else is annoyed.


We already have that stupid backlight logo on the lid, do we really need to copy Apple even more ?

You have taken a lot of considerations for something to be wrong, this is about getting it right, out of the box.
And I made a suggestion on how to achive that, that is more complex to implement, but a lot more satisfying for different types of users and caters to more use cases.

Edit: While the "stable system is good enough" approach is ok, it isnt great. Many distributions have had success in making an effort visually and have things be consistent. Ubuntu in its day, ElementaryOS now, there is even a distro started by one of the icon theme communities.


Think what you will of that, but the mere notion that it exists, means people are willing to download and use it, and they care. And so they should.
And I never said, that there is anything wrong with that, just that there is no need to bloat things. Why do we need two music player, that are both more or less copies of iTunes that are probably only in the list because you like to use them? There may be an equal/bigger/smaller amount of future users that simply don't like to use them for several reasons.


The point is instead of spending hours over hours on useless debates on what may or may not be right choice, spend that that time on making it as easy as possible for a new user to choose what he thinks suits him best.
 

rygD

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Why on someone or somethings green earth would you guys want to include someting that has absolutely no practical value
I was offering alternative selections I might find appealing.  As I understand it a startup sound is user modifiable, so really everyone can use whatever they want, or nothing.  Like you said, if you leave the Pyra on you will very rarely hear the sound if you do have one set.

As for boot animation, can't it be set up so that if you hit a specific key it makes the pretty picture go away?  This may also be user modifiable. 

There is a practical purpose for both of these, and it is the same as the lit logo on the case, branding.  I don't really care either way, but if something is present by default I prefer that it not really suck.
 
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