Developer Fund

[plopperz]

Most are GPL as far as I know.
I was under the assumption that bounties were for new apps, not ports.

 

[jaycee900]

I was just thinking, if I buy a Pandora and not pay the £10 for the early versions, does that mean when i get it back home i will have to wait for software as its partly hurting system sales by forcing early buyers into this 'beta' system (which i'm not against in theory) but early buyers will have a predictament which i see as a little unfair...I think this system should start say 3 months later when more software gets released...

 

[xafier]

I like the idea of unifying donations for developers, as I understand that a lot of people get very little back for the amount of spare time they spend on porting/writing stuff for consoles... certainly nothing compared to the salery's they're on in their normal day hours!

I kinda think that maybe the best way is to have competitions, perhaps 3 or 6 monthly, with a section for emulators and ports and another section for games/applications written from scratch and then have 1st 2nd and 3rd places for both sections.

Its a hard one to judge really, because anything I develop will most likely be because its something I want, so I probably wouldn't be that fussed about earning any money from it, but then again a cash incentive might persuade me to polish it off to a much better standard.

I think it's swings and round-a-bouts really, not sure there is a perfect answer to this problem, but I would donate to a pot if I thought the rules were clearly defined and it'd bring some good new apps and games to the console.

 

[craigix]

For the people saying that they'd prefer donations instead..

The way I'm seeing this (and craigix please correct me if I'm wrong), this isn't meant to just provide a way to reward developers of software that you like. Instead it's supposed to strengthen the software library on the Pandora as a whole, acting as a motivator for good software in general. Which is why it's being offered with the purchases of the Pandoras themselves. Having everyone donate to the most popular software isn't really going to accomplish this. I see it as being like something that "stimulates the economy."

I could be totally wrong though.

^ this is exactly right.

 

[_VWV_]

For the people saying that they'd prefer donations instead..

The way I'm seeing this (and craigix please correct me if I'm wrong), this isn't meant to just provide a way to reward developers of software that you like. Instead it's supposed to strengthen the software library on the Pandora as a whole, acting as a motivator for good software in general. Which is why it's being offered with the purchases of the Pandoras themselves. Having everyone donate to the most popular software isn't really going to accomplish this. I see it as being like something that "stimulates the economy."

I could be totally wrong though.

^ this is exactly right.

How will this fund "strengthen the software library on the Pandora as a whole"? What do you mean by saying "for good software in general" and "something that "stimulates the economy"? I hate it, when a sentence has combination of words something + general + fund. If a dev ports/creates something really useful for everybody (like a common lib for example) the everybody will say thank you and someone will say THANK YOU. It just depends on the thickness of ones wallet. I can understand that. That's fair. But I don't want my money to be spent on say organization of a competition just to create proper environment within community around andora1:. Someone might want that. Ok, let them donate to the fund, but I don't think it would be appropriate to divide community on 2 sides the one that donated and has access to betas, and another which didn't (for some reason) and is thus excluded from higher league. Barriers like that will badly influence on the climate inside community, so it will counteract its main goal (if I get it right).

 

[craigix]

As I've said, it is totally voluntary for the donators and the developers. We want to try to reward everyone and not just the few.

 

[_VWV_]

As I've said, it is totally voluntary for the donators and the developers. We want to try to reward everyone and not just the few.

I just don't think that if we donate separatly as individuals with our own understanding of what is good and what should be prized with a little gift, we will miss someone or few people will fill our thankfulness about their work.
I like the overall idea. There should be a fund which will give financial support to devs according to decision of jury (a group of well-known and respected people). Both ways to encourage devs should work: acknowledgement from jury (PDA - Pandora Devs Association) and from common people (users).
I just a) don't like the idea with access to betas and B ) I still don't get the exact mechanism of this fund (though you might have already explained everything in detail, and I just misunderstood or didn't get it. sorry then!)
Edit: damm smile... sorry

 

[Kyo]

Will we be able to do it seperately from the purchase?

 

[Orkie]

I just a) don't like the idea with access to betas

Why? You will still get the final thing in the end. Typical 'me' attitude coming though in this thread.

 

[Tobriand]

I see where people are coming from in terms of those who want to direct their donations personally not getting access to the beta area. As a proposed solution, how about setting the area up such that those who donated at time of purchase can see all threads/betas/links/whatever present in the area. Those that didn't still get access, but can only see those programs/threads/etc. that are two weeks old. This would still leave a reward for the donators, but would not penalize those who decide they either can't afford to donate (there are some) or those who wish to donate to their choice of project. It also avoids creating a "two-tier" community, which I must say is a slight fear of mine with something like this, although given the people involved, only a slight one.

Or, although this doesn't alleviate the two-tier potential issue, the manager of a fund could allow devs to "register" donations received from a source outside the fund, and thus get the donator access to the respective areas.

So, say I donate £10 to Squidge, Squidge forwards the invoice to donation.registration.devfund@openpandora.org, and they add it to the allowed list.

The former of these requires a lot less effort on behalf of the one receiving the devs, though, and I'm not entirely convinced that either is definitely the way to go. They're possibilities, though.

 

[TaG]

There are many beta programs that restrict the initial availability and then open it up later. Craig's original post said:

This will give you access to a beta testing zone (where you can try software early)
so it could depend what is meant by 'early'. As Tobriand said this could be a couple of weeks or it could be truly developmental/sneak peeks type stuff for comments that you don't normally get to see very early in development. And I'm sure this is really meant as a thank-you or carrot so that people feel they get a little recognition for helping financially.

Amazing the negativity to a small, voluntary donation that should help ensure devs work on stuff that is most wanted / needed.

Yes the rules have to be decided. Yes some will want to support specific devs - again covered by Tobriand. And the devs could have just said 'sorry we need to put the price up £10/$20' and most would have not argued.

 

[MagicPants]

you will be given the option to donate $20/£10...

This will give you access to a beta testing zone

Discuss...

Just to play devil's advocate, so you want me to pay to beta test software?

I'd be happy to denote money, but I think it would be better not to imply any access to goods or services for that money, because then you are selling me something. You are in fact selling me buggy, untested software.

I think you are far better off from a legal perspective to not tie these two things together.

 

[gaterooze]

Tobriand's suggestions are good.

Another way to go is with the quarterly competition setup, and give all the entries to people who donated, so they can play them first a couple of weeks in advance and vote on a special "popular choice" prize. This way you get all of the benefits with none of the drawbacks:

1) Most money goes to the most necessary/polished programs as judged by the Pandora devs
2) Some money also goes to the most popular piece of software, with input from the donators (something many seem to want)
3) Donaters receive some reward for their contribution by having advance software
4) Software development is stimulated in mature fashion as prizes can be given for crucial drivers, etc as well as commercial-grade original homebrew

This would become a regular event and new donations can be made before each one to increase the prize pool...

 

[Trip]

I'm all for it personally, although a decent system would need to be thought up as has already been stated.

I don't like the idea of some developer getting less donations just because they decided to work on software that isn't as much fun as an emulator or game, even if it does benefit all the emulators, games and the rest of the software on the system.

I don't have a lot of money either, so I wouldn't feel guilty about only being able to donate to one or two people. I'd feel more like I was helping out all the dev's.

Count me in

 

[Svartalf]

Having bounty's on certain applications may be ILLEGAL. Many open source applications strictly say NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE! Putting a cash bounty on such an application violates this agreement and is illegal.

Some, not many.

GPL
LGPL
MPL
MIT/X11
BSD

Those licenses do NOT state "Not For Commercial Use". The bulk of the Open Source applications actually are under one of those variants. Artistic Licensing tends to have that clause in it in at least part of the applications, certain Creative Commons licenses do. However, as I said, those don't comprise the bulk of the software out there. And, if it DOES have that as one of the criteria, it's not the problem of the Pandora Project for the bounty- it's the violator of the terms of the license that has the problem in that case.

 

[Kyo]

a donation isn't commercial use

 

[Trip]

a donation isn't commercial use

True. Your paying dev's for the work they do and the amount of time they spend on it, not for the software.

 

[_VWV_]

I see where people are coming from in terms of those who want to direct their donations personally not getting access to the beta area. As a proposed solution, how about setting the area up such that those who donated at time of purchase can see all threads/betas/links/whatever present in the area. Those that didn't still get access, but can only see those programs/threads/etc. that are two weeks old. This would still leave a reward for the donators, but would not penalize those who decide they either can't afford to donate (there are some) or those who wish to donate to their choice of project. It also avoids creating a "two-tier" community, which I must say is a slight fear of mine with something like this, although given the people involved, only a slight one.

Or, although this doesn't alleviate the two-tier potential issue, the manager of a fund could allow devs to "register" donations received from a source outside the fund, and thus get the donator access to the respective areas.

So, say I donate £10 to Squidge, Squidge forwards the invoice to donation.registration.devfund@openpandora.org, and they add it to the allowed list.

The former of these requires a lot less effort on behalf of the one receiving the devs, though, and I'm not entirely convinced that either is definitely the way to go. They're possibilities, though.

Why do we need to create advantages for people, who donated some money for devs? I thought people donate money to say thank you without something in return. Just mark their account somehow on this forum for others to follow their good example and that'll do. We should try to multiply goodness.. You can get a "GP32 Hardcore" sing for having written a few dozens of useless messages like "Oh, we need to change that hinge" or "I want a slideout keyboard" or "hardware suggestions" (sorry, but thats my IMHO, but it's been discussed to death, and the final decisions was made months ago) ... needless to say sometimes when somebody asks a dev something about andora1: some of us start speculating on that question when the only option is devs to answer the given question just because nobody else knows the answer. Flooding a topic with your ideas about how it might be is nice but devs know how it WILL be/IS planned to be, and if they can't choose between some options they will ask the community themselves. "GP32 Hardcore" sometimes means he/she's been efficiently trolling around.
So if someone donates to fund or directly to a dev, it should affect that someones profile on this forum. This should prize the donator and help others to figure out who is a noob and who's been here for a while, knows something about this scene and it's devs and have already made a discussion where to direct his/here money. (I'm, a noob, I have no idea, work of what dev is the closest to my needs).
And it's important not to announce how much that particular person has donated to devs. Avoiding this will prevent money-based separation (some of us really count each dollar). The fact of donation says more than its size.

I just a) don't like the idea with access to betas

Why? You will still get the final thing in the end. Typical 'me' attitude coming though in this thread.

I hope I've answered your question.
EDIT: spelling

 

[DisgruntleElf]

Having bounty's on certain applications may be ILLEGAL. Many open source applications strictly say NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE! Putting a cash bounty on such an application violates this agreement and is illegal.

Some, not many.

GPL
LGPL
MPL
MIT/X11
BSD

Those licenses do NOT state "Not For Commercial Use". The bulk of the Open Source applications actually are under one of those variants. Artistic Licensing tends to have that clause in it in at least part of the applications, certain Creative Commons licenses do. However, as I said, those don't comprise the bulk of the software out there. And, if it DOES have that as one of the criteria, it's not the problem of the Pandora Project for the bounty- it's the violator of the terms of the license that has the problem in that case.



It's more expansive than you may think because a lot of open source code also applies to these rules including two big and popular ones, MAME and FINAL BURN ALPHA. Their policy clear states "NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE". If a cash bounty is placed for these or other open source codes to port to Pandora then it violates the licensing agreement and is illegal. Its also breaks the trust agreement with the original author which is could result in closing source code especially a lot of once commerical software now available for free.
Now legally I'm not certain if the developement fund is also in violation of the law if it issues a cash bounty but I think the GP2X community doesn't want to offend any authors. As I stated before, a donation quietly behind the scene for the porters time would probably be alright but a cash bounty placed on a website for all to see definetly is the wrong way to go.

 

[MagicPants]

a donation isn't commercial use

It is if you're getting something in return. You could say something like "If you use this beta software please donate to the development fund". But to require a "donation" makes it a purchase.