Craigs Preorder List Update

[Nagelfar]

The 500 number (which is probably +/- 100)  came up in a thread couple weeks ago. The 400 for <100 you can more or less deduce from the numbers given by OP

 

[milkshake]

well I would probably wait for ED's hard numbers before dishing out info, we don't want to start any Chinese whispers around the forums with faux figures.

 

[rohezal]

When the remaining predorders see that it works if they spend 150$, some of them will go for it, I think. Maybe use a bit more psychology and write an other email. The first 50 people who paid at least 150$ got their Pandora. The next 50 people who pay 150$ will get their Pandora probably next month. First come first served. All 200$ people got their Pandora in one month.

 

[PokeParadox]

Yup we need to build confidence that there is a functioning way forward!

 

[ShleeDragon]

No, the numbers came from my source.. less than 48 hours ago.... because my views seem to be considered harsh I'll try to state it again. (note my sig always get updated.. Five-Clownshoes-Hundred.)

I really want everybody who paid for a pandora to get one... but Craig has abandoned you and your money is gone. As of right now - that money doesn't factor into the situation...

Repeat: Any money you paid is gone and doesn't matter... it's gone. forever. Now if you want a pandora.. trying to get money from Craig is impossible and trying to get money from ED is just selfish.

The reality is.. there are a lots and lots of people who are currently living in some kind of false reality that ED owes them something. ED doesn't owe anybody anything but himself. He's simply a saint.

Craig is at fault again and his preorder queue died two years ago. He is really screw's his customers from beyond the grave because of it by handballing the undead queue to ED.

Bottom line: Craig should have pulled the bandaid off the people in the queue years ago. ED should have only offered a discount unit to craig's preorder's based on the donations he gets... That's not actually a stupid idea. ED could create a new product on his store.. and he can add "inventory" as the donations come in to cover them.... then it's first come first served for those in Craig's preorder list who could be given a password to buy them.

I've said it before ED should consider an exit strategy.... because I'll reply with some numbers soon.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Let's figure this out..

There are 500 people who paid for a Pandora and have lost that money.. but the original preoders were $330ish (247euro)... and that money is GONE. *POOF*

Now... those 500 people are looking for a original (rebirth) 369,75 € (~USD 491.69)... and they want to pay $100euro for one. That means ED needs to find $172,331.52 USD to pay for craigs preorder.

If the people who were totally and utterly and unfairly screwed by Craig want a pandora.. they need to consider ponying up a little more than 25% of the cost price. the 1Ghz is even more.

Update: I know what I'm saying is mean but this is something you need to consider.. Evildragons burden of having to manage the UNDEAD queue from hell is raising the prices of the units in his store.

The more it costs.. the less he sells.. which means it takes longer to find money to pay off the preorders... 

That is screwing EVERYBODY... and it's a horrible situation to place somebody in.

 

[ShleeDragon]

More evil: the people in the preorder queue are being unreasonable because they were placed in an unreasonable situation and given unreasonable choices.

the recent "survey" should never have included options like would you like to pay $100euro or wait for the pandora 2 or any of that bait and switch bullshit.

The option should have been.. a discount price for the rebirth with delay (250€), a discount price on the 1ghz (350€) or the door.. I said good day sir.

These tiers of discount are evil because it makes people feel like the preorder queue still exists.. it doesn't.. it's just undead and fucking up the place like zombies always do.

bobbens | they should let every go bust, ED should change his name and move to mexico and start producing "El Pandora Dos"

Exophase | bobbens; lolz, ED has no legal liability for Craig's orders, he doesn't have to do anything 

 

[akarolick]

No, the numbers came from my source.. less than 48 hours ago.... because my views seem to be considered harsh I'll try to state it again. (note my sig always get updated.. Five-Clownshoes-Hundred.)

I really want everybody who paid for a pandora to get one... but Craig has abandoned you and your money is gone. As of right now - that money doesn't factor into the situation...

Repeat: Any money you paid is gone and doesn't matter... it's gone. forever. Now if you want a pandora.. trying to get money from Craig is impossible and trying to get money from ED is just selfish.

The reality is.. there are a lots and lots of people who are currently living in some kind of false reality that ED owes them something. ED doesn't owe anybody anything but himself. He's simply a saint.

Craig is at fault again and his preorder queue died two years ago. He is really screw's his customers from beyond the grave because of it by handballing the undead queue to ED.

Bottom line: Craig should have pulled the bandaid off the people in the queue years ago. ED should have only offered a discount unit to craig's preorder's based on the donations he gets... That's not actually a stupid idea. ED could create a new product on his store.. and he can add "inventory" as the donations come in to cover them.... then it's first come first served for those in Craig's preorder list who could be given a password to buy them.

I've said it before ED should consider an exit strategy.... because I'll reply with some numbers soon.

Let's figure this out..

There are 500 people who paid for a Pandora and have lost that money.. but the original preoders were $330ish (247euro)... and that money is GONE. *POOF*

Now... those 500 people are looking for a original (rebirth) 369,75 € (~USD 491.69)... and they want to pay $100euro for one. That means ED needs to find $172,331.52 USD to pay for craigs preorder.

If the people who were totally and utterly and unfairly screwed by Craig want a pandora.. they need to consider ponying up a little more than 25% of the cost price. the 1Ghz is even more.

Update: I know what I'm saying is mean but this is something you need to consider.. Evildragons burden of having to manage the UNDEAD queue from hell is raising the prices of the units in his store.

The more it costs.. the less he sells.. which means it takes longer to find money to pay off the preorders... 

That is screwing EVERYBODY... and it's a horrible situation to place somebody in.

More evil: the people in the preorder queue are being unreasonable because they were placed in an unreasonable situation and given unreasonable choices.

the recent "survey" should never have included options like would you like to pay $100euro or wait for the pandora 2 or any of that bait and switch bullshit.

The option should have been.. a discount price for the rebirth with delay (250€), a discount price on the 1ghz (350€) or the door.. I said good day sir.

These tiers of discount are evil because it makes people feel like the preorder queue still exists.. it doesn't.. it's just undead and fucking up the place like zombies always do.

bobbens | they should let every go bust, ED should change his name and move to mexico and start producing "El Pandora Dos"

Exophase | bobbens; lolz, ED has no legal liability for Craig's orders, he doesn't have to do anything 

What Shlee said...

It totally blows but dems da facts... The problem lies with the fact that ED is a saint among Dragons and doesn't want to twice screw us leftovers... (although I think twice is a far too conservative estimate)

 

[Nagelfar]

While I would have preferred less flashy pictures I agree that taking over craigs preorders (even not officially) was and is a bad move.

 

[ShleeDragon]

While I would have preferred less flashy pictures I agree that taking over craigs preorders (even not officially) was and is a bad move.

Less pictures? You don't know me very well.

also.. for people talking about refunds.. IT'S GONE.. GONE GONE GONE!

 

[xcen]

Hi guys

How is it useful to dispute whether or not ED is making a good move by doing what he's doing? He seems to be doing what he believes in, which is to make his project shine and find ways people who enabled the project to work don't end up empty ended.

Your points are still valid but rather than constantly suggest ED gives everything up (AKA My Worst Nightmare), maybe we should just preach for users to go an extra mile and raise up their contributions for a 1ghz unit to 200EU 

I was part of the 150EU people, I will lead by example and anounce I am now willing to up this to 200EU

Forgive me if I've misunderstood your posts, but the pictures mesmerized me ;P

 

[ShleeDragon]

Firstly.. You're amazing. Secondly, you didn't misunderstand.. I have no problem with ED deciding to help the preorder queue - I do have a problem with ED getting grandfathered by endless bad decisions.

If people were given realistic options and ED could find himself in a position with an real end goal and a realistic time frame... I wouldn't be complaining - This is an example of Craig and his bad choices and ED being screwed by them.

The fact that the prices are kept high to pay for the currently impossible to solve clusterfuck of a plan is hurting everybody... Id love to see a little realism by craig, ed and the preorders.

Thanks again... we'll continue to donate money to help pay off this burden.

edit: ED never had the preorder list and it's taken years for Craig to hand it over... and this was after he had sent that horrible survey to everybody... ED needs to send another survey (making people angry) with more realistic solutions.. rebirth/1ghz/door.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

The P2 may have already be here if ED hasn't been bogged down by Craig's bad decisions.  Now who knows if P2's ever gonna see the light of day if this BS keeps going on....

 

[milkshake]

Who is this source for the magic number of 500?

 

[EvilDragon]

I'll check all the remaining numbers and details tonight and let you know.

But yeah, the remaining preorder list seems to be a LOT bigger than I feared. The survey was based on about 300 remaining preorders (which already was twice as many as SHOULD'VE been left), which would've helped, but yeah, with probably 500 preorders left, this won't be an easy task, not even if everyone paid the full production price (270 EUR).

500 units for 270 EUR still means NO profit for 500 units... so that would still be lost money.

However, let me first check all the numbers I got.

 

[MrConfusion]

the recent "survey" should never have included options like would you like to pay $100euro or wait for the pandora 2 or any of that bait and switch bullshit.

I was really amazed when it turned out to be a method for creating "yet another queue" with a "he who pays most, gets first". Amazed because I remember pondering long and hard about the "get it now"-upgrade (what was it called? 1GHz preorder queue?) which went totally, horribly, wrong. Boy was I glad I didn't jump into that boat...

I did not think that would be tried again... well, in a way it wasn't, of course, because this time there was no need to pay up front... at least at the time the survey was made, but the way things had gone in the past, who knew how it would all turn out.

When I answered the survey I was somehow still under the misimpression that the best option for OpenPandora would be to "not upgrade" (reasoning for this can be read from my post soon after the query).

Somehow I thought the figures would be used to see how much on average people are willing to pay, map how many people there are, see how much is needed and then try to come up with a "doable but totally unfair for everyone"-compromise ...

I.e. single sum for both types of Pandora, but one that "should do the trick" even if some people say "no way".

Further, I have to admit: Even though the survey said "there is no need to pay more money now" I thought the safe option is to say "New shiny from the factory Pandora, no more transactions, thank you!"... Because I was worried that once the survey was done there'd be an email in my inbox saying "hey, you promised to pay 150 eur, pay it now and we'll ship ASAP".

I did not want to give even a hint of a promise of something like that anymore.

So I chose "no upgrade".

But I will pay some for the upgrade when stuff is in stock and I see from the forums that people are receiving Pandoras again!

I don't know if it's possible to move to 1 GHz upgrade queues anymore... now that I'm seeing there's a remote chance of this stuff working out I PMd ED and said I'm OK with the 150 eur. But having read all this I guess I'll still have to emphasize in later communication that I won't pay anything until the Pandora ships "next day". I also should warn you Shlee Dragon, that had you posted all this before I PM'd ED, I might not have... because now it all seems terribly messy again...

 

[ShleeDragon]

I'll check all the remaining numbers and details tonight and let you know.

But yeah, the remaining preorder list seems to be a LOT bigger than I feared. The survey was based on about 300 remaining preorders (which already was twice as many as SHOULD'VE been left), which would've helped, but yeah, with probably 500 preorders left, this won't be an easy task, not even if everyone paid the full production price (270 EUR).

500 units for 270 EUR still means NO profit for 500 units... so that would still be lost money.

However, let me first check all the numbers I got.

Sorry for making such a huge wall of text... but Id love to hear what you think because we all know the current road leads to hell.

Regardless of your choice, the community won't blame you... just do what is best for everybody even if there is a little sting.

 

[MrConfusion]

The reality is.. there are a lots and lots of people who are currently living in some kind of false reality that ED owes them something. ED doesn't owe anybody anything but himself. He's simply a saint.

Anyone reading these forums at all should definitely not have the impression ED owes them a Pandora. (I lurk very occasionally, when time permits and even I understand ED is running a charity operation and collecting donations by allowing an upgrade.) Their understanding of English would have to be very lousy for that to happen.

As for the people who do not read the forums... assume half: 250 is A LOT, probably many/most of them do not even know who ED is! I've only ever received email from Craig's store...

...so before ED sends an email saying "Hello, I'm taking over" these people are not going to blame ED. ED hasn't had any contact with Craig's customers directly and it now seems that is a very good thing indeed.

And yes, people who do not read the forum might pop in and read the forum on the 5th anniversary of no Pandora but doing that they'll get the "big picture" again...

Of course, some people are having theirs already . I ordered in 2009, so my anniversary comes next year...

Poor Craig... (Yes, you read that right). I wonder when he realized the ship has sunk for good. Assuming he hasn't taken more orders along the way, it must be a long, long time ago. Quite a few sleepless nights there for sure either way... I'm amazed he even wanted to keep running the business.

Hmm... I wonder if ED has the original order dates... can't remember whether that was part of the webform or not.

 

[levi]

Craig did well enough getting people to sign up for his iCP2 kickstarter last year. He's moved on to ships anew a while ago now, I'm afraid.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Craig did well enough getting people to sign up for his iCP2 kickstarter last year. He's moved on to ships anew a while ago now, I'm afraid.

That ship is very much in EDs harbor.