COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic


JDTAY

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Information sucks, rely on my intuition. Got it.

My intuition actually told me this morning I could cook raw stir-fry from nearly frozen as long as I cook it long enough. Chicken and beef together. I'll see if I puke up my intuition later. Oddly, I think I've done this before and didn't have any problems.
 

levi

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Yes, of course you can. But if you're cooking meat from raw and frozen, it's important you stir it a lot, because only the part in contact the pan will get getting enough heat to defrost it, and then it'll burn if it's not moved and turned.
 

JDTAY

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I like the one guy in the comments who says requiring people to have proof of vaccination is racist. That's a rock solid argument that the media will totally ignore.

I mean, they are right when they say you already need proof of many other vaccinations to do things like attend school. It's kinda like how you need ID in this country to do absolutely everything except vote.
 

pyrat

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Do they require flu vaccination to attend school ? Because I don't think all vaccines are equal. Some have been around for longer and it's clearer what they do. Some change every year and are more hit and miss. Some do stop contagion. The COVID-19 vaccines may or may not, I at least I don't have that clear, I think they stop contagion with low probability, so it makes less sense to require them (just from medicine point of view, letting alone discrimination, privacy, etc.). Pending longer tests, it's likely vaccines help against COVID-19 (specially certain against death and hospitalization), but if you combine vaccines with relaxed prevention the result might as well be worse that no vaccine (and stricter prevention). If you start telling vaccinated people that they can do things that others can't then it's harder to keep them being vigilant. And the virus won't cease to mutate or wait around until immunity wanes. We need more data, more time. I think I agree with the Florida government for once. And then there're freedoms and rights. But I mean only from public health viewpoint.
 

FBnil

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I like the one guy in the comments who says requiring people to have proof of vaccination is racist. That's a rock solid argument that the media will totally ignore.
TBH, i don't think it is racist. Discriminatory? Sure. But not racist. And the media conveniently says it's not racist, which I agree with, and then... use that to make the "one guy" stupid/retard/etc, and by proxy, the whole like-minded group. Pretty smart, eh? Sometimes "the one guy" is actually a payed shill.
I mean, they are right when they say you already need proof of many other vaccinations to do things like attend school. It's kinda like how you need ID in this country to do absolutely everything except vote.
Ah, you found one of the pillars of the current social transformation that is being imposed upon us without consultation.
 

levi

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Do they require flu vaccination to attend school ?
No, because flu doesn't tend to kill kids or teachers, just knocks you out of circulation for a few days.
As far as I remember you need to prove you've had the yellow fever vaccine before you are allowed to travel to certain african countries. I can believe that some parts of the US are hot and wet enough for some nasty diseases to be circulating, so maybe they require vaccinations to those disaeases if they have such vaccines already. I recall when I was at school there was a TB outbreak in the city were I grew up, and I was injected with a vaccine at that point. I don't recall whether I could opt out or not.
 

pyrat

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No, because flu doesn't tend to kill kids or teachers, just knocks you out of circulation for a few days.
Exactly. Kids, teachers or families and contacts of them. The flu can kill fragile patients (like some kid's granddad, but it's better to vaccinate the granddad against flu) but COVID-19 kills 50x more or something. But it doesn't kill many kids (or didn't, maybe I'm out of date with variants ?). If vaccinating kids could guarantee that they don't spread the virus then requiring it could be considered, but so far only one COVID-19 vaccine has even had clinical trials for kids, and in general they don't stop contagion very reliably, or we don't yet know that they do. The immune system of very young people seem to be good at fighting SAR-CoV-2 without vaccines (or rather SARS-CoV-2 seems to be relatively bad at attacking them), and they aren't legally able to take their own decisions, so it's possibly too early to require parents to vaccinate them.
As far as I remember you need to prove you've had the yellow fever vaccine before you are allowed to travel to certain african countries. I can believe that some parts of the US are hot and wet enough for some nasty diseases to be circulating, so maybe they require vaccinations to those disaeases if they have such vaccines already. I recall when I was at school there was a TB outbreak in the city were I grew up, and I was injected with a vaccine at that point. I don't recall whether I could opt out or not.
Tuberculosis ? The vaccine for that is one century old. I don'tthink you could opt out, maybe your parents could opt out for you. Yellow fever vacciens are 80 years old. I wish they were given to all people living there and not only tourists. COVID-19 vaccines are not even one year old. I think they're busy enough trying to give COVID-19 vaccines to everyone who wants one to start requiring anything.
 

levi

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Yes, as I recall tuberculosis was mainly under control in those days, although there was an outbreak near to where I was. The aim, as I recall was to achieve herd immunity using the BCG vaccine, thus bring down the R number for that bacterium.

So far the same seems to be happening for Covid. Now that here the most elderly and affectable people have been vaccinated, as well as those in public facing roles like nurses, police, doctors. I'm not sure if teachers qualify for an earlier vaccine delivery here or not. But in any case the numbers now are far lower than they were around new year. The only question remaining is how that pans out when people start going back to pubs and restaurants, and offices.
 

Linux-SWAT

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It's not the police anymore who control the people in the center of Paris, it's the gendarmerie.
And guess what, the gendarmerie is the army.
I'm afraid that we're heading towards dark days, my friends.
 

pyrat

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Now that here the most elderly and affectable people have been vaccinated, as well as those in public facing roles like nurses, police, doctors. I'm not sure if teachers qualify for an earlier vaccine delivery here or not.
here = UK, right ? that' s 7,5 % or 5 millions fully vaccinated ? I don't know how good that idea is. Better than the EU, that much I understand. Most people say (in hindsight) it's terrific to give one dose to many people, others say it helps now and complicates matters later because it gives many people weaker protection that the virus leverages to remain around and mutate. I'm unable to tell who is right and if the UK should now go for second dosis of those prioritary groups or expand first dosis to more groups.
I think teachers do qualify as essential personnel getting vaccines but maybe I'm not very aware of what policy every place is taking.
Once those professionals and people more at risk are done I'd offer it to essential workers (like supermarket, groceries personel, pharmacy personnel, post and courier personnel, government offices, cleaners of hospitals and all those places if not done before for some reason, etc. then I'd go for non-essential but public facing workers: shop assistants, waiters, receptionists, bank staff, hairdressers, tatooers, actors, sex workers, etc. and finally office workers, executives, and then unemployed and teleworkers). But that's of course difficult and requires ignoring that nobody has any stable job anymore, so it's more easily replaced by just decreasing age groups. In any case I think even the UK or the USA has a long way to go with giving vaccines to the willing before requiring it to anyone.
 

levi

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If there are less cases then it follows to my mind that there are less infections. If there are less infections there is less scope for mutation. The only problem with vaccinating all of your folk is it you don't let vaccines out to other countries that don't have them, then mutations can be generated there which may well turn out to be immune to our newly developed immunity, and with world travel being what it is these days, it only takes time if that were to happen.
 

pyrat

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If there are less cases then it follows to my mind that there are less infections. If there are less infections there is less scope for mutation.
How do you know there are fewer cases ? Asymptomatic or even mild cases may have increased and we wouldn't know ? Or does the UK do big screenings with random people being tested to estimate how many viruses are there ?
In most vaccine clinical trials they weren't testing asymptomatic people. And even when they did, my understanding is that the UK plan is not to use the same intervals between doses than in those trials.
My understanding is that vaccines, the selection of recipients of vaccines, and the increasingly better (never enough) knowledge about how to treat the disease means the mortatily (deaths/cases) is lower.
The other day I heard (about UE?) that the occupation of the ICUs is much higher not so much because of so many patients but because patients stay more days in there and the explanations is that
before they died in the ICU and vacated then, but as more people exit the ICU alive there are more beds busy. Like in people have always needed average x days of ICU to recover, just that few of them used to achieve recovery.
Fewer deaths and fewer severe cases is great but it does not necessarily mean there're fewer viruses. Might be or might be that they're still there but unable to kill so much.

So if you dedicate more stock to second doses, then you leave more people unvaccinated, and if the virus can survive in people with one dose it can surely survive in people with no dose, likely in greater numbers.
The point would be (virologists vs epidemiologists) whether living in unvaccinated people is less of a cause to mutate because there's not the evolutionary pressure that the defenses of people with one dose put up.
A little like fostering resistant bacteria because of interrupted antibiotic treatments. I don't know
The only problem with vaccinating all of your folk is it you don't let vaccines out to other countries that don't have them, then mutations can be generated there which may well turn out to be immune to our newly developed immunity, and with world travel being what it is these days, it only takes time if that were to happen.
Indeed.
 

FBnil

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It's not the police anymore who control the people in the center of Paris, it's the gendarmerie.
Same in Netherlands: They are getting more and more violent.
Latest incident: For April 1 (April fools day) there was a outside party, and many people went, but there was no party. And the police started to disperse them, and one horse ran over a person and they really started hitting people harder than before.

We have several officers (around 60 went to a tribunal) telling their story, that they say they are sick on days they they are to repress, just to not go to hit peaceful protesters. Peer pressured.
At a certain moment, we got ex-military protecting the protesters

 
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levi

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How do you know there are fewer cases ? Asymptomatic or even mild cases may have increased and we wouldn't know ? Or does the UK do big screenings with random people being tested to estimate how many viruses are there ?
I understand there are a few random testing projects ongoing around the country, but I can't name any of them at present. But anyone with a mild infection still means you're more or less bedridden for a couple of days as I understand it, and since we're still in an epidemic situation, most people are sending for testing kits on the first day they're ill, to find out what it is.
In most vaccine clinical trials they weren't testing asymptomatic people. And even when they did, my understanding is that the UK plan is not to use the same intervals between doses than in those trials.
My understanding is that vaccines, the selection of recipients of vaccines, and the increasingly better (never enough) knowledge about how to treat the disease means the mortatily (deaths/cases) is lower.
The other day I heard (about UE?) that the occupation of the ICUs is much higher not so much because of so many patients but because patients stay more days in there and the explanations is that
before they died in the ICU and vacated then, but as more people exit the ICU alive there are more beds busy. Like in people have always needed average x days of ICU to recover, just that few of them used to achieve recovery.
Fewer deaths and fewer severe cases is great but it does not necessarily mean there're fewer viruses. Might be or might be that they're still there but unable to kill so much.

So if you dedicate more stock to second doses, then you leave more people unvaccinated, and if the virus can survive in people with one dose it can surely survive in people with no dose, likely in greater numbers.
The point would be (virologists vs epidemiologists) whether living in unvaccinated people is less of a cause to mutate because there's not the evolutionary pressure that the defenses of people with one dose put up.
A little like fostering resistant bacteria because of interrupted antibiotic treatments. I don't know
Yes, that's possible. I understand the rates of protection from serious illness are in the 70% a few weeks after the first dose, and in the high 90s% after the second dose. Meanwhile we're still keeping our distance from people outside our household bubble, ordering food online, wearing face masks, and washing our hands. They're saying they're going slowly with opening up society, and keeping an eye on the numbers, but historically those haven't been the government's strong suit, so we'll have to see how that works out. But in this new behaviour has also had impact on cold and flu numbers, which suggests to me it stops infections occurring, so that seems a way to stop mutations occurring.
 

λ the β-Redex Reducer

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It's not the police anymore who control the people in the center of Paris, it's the gendarmerie.
And guess what, the gendarmerie is the army.
I'm afraid that we're heading towards dark days, my friends.
Indeed. I saw it coming since a few years ago, but for people who have been asleep the last few years there is still time to prep. I definitely recommend to have a buffer of food, mains of generating electricity, a buffer of water, etc. And maybe also some gold or —if you trust it— bitcoin. Also, pepper spray may be handy too. There is a lot to think about. It is cheap to prep if you start early and do it slowly, but be sure to not do it too slowly.
 

JDTAY

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I thought I posted about the Indian variant when I first heard about it, but I can't find it. Anyway, it's in the US now.


We're all getting vaccinated pretty quickly now though, so it won't be a problem, right? I read an article today that said Canada of all places was actually lagging behind the US in vaccinations. Hopefully we don't give them the Indian variant.
 

PowerGod

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Same in Netherlands: They are getting more and more violent.
Latest incident: For April 1 (April fools day) there was a outside party, and many people went, but there was no party. And the police started to disperse them, and one horse ran over a person and they really started hitting people harder than before.

We have several officers (around 60 went to a tribunal) telling their story, that they say they are sick on days they they are to repress, just to not go to hit peaceful protesters. Peer pressured.
At a certain moment, we got ex-military protecting the protesters


But why people, during a lockdown, go to a concert ?!

If police starts to become heavy its because of them !!
 
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