Charging connectors

[SNESFAN]

with all the usb ports available, and not having usb host as the only option through the microusb like most mobile devices... I see barrel jack as redundant. It's just a metal connector for electricity, microusb is more common around the house or out and about than psp style chargers, so more flexible options.

My main concern that it be able to charge with a 2A charger or for a slower charge but greater compatibility a 500mA or 1A. There are quite a few devices out there that just will not slow charge on a lower amperage charger.

The metal in which it enters the device doesn't matter, plus with microusb it serves a dual function

 

[WizardStan]

plus with microusb it serves a dual function

Grench's proposal is for a second microUSB which can only charge. We can only have one fully functioning microUSB port.

 

[Natsu]

While there is USB around the house, I hope Pyra comes with one. Maybe with the Pyra branding.

 

[Neelix]

@Grench  We're not proposing to disable charging from the existing micro-USB - you would still be able to do that - we're just requesting that there be an option included for those of us who want to be able to charge and use the micro-USB port as host at the same time. 

Looking at the photo of the board ED posted in the other thread,  it looked like it would be possible to make room for a barrel jack by shuffling the USB 2 connectors to one side.   The same couldn't be said for an additional micro-USB port.

You want to be able to use your existing micro-USB chargers and that's fine, you can do that regardless.  By the same token though, I have several Pandora barrel jack chargers,  why should I not also be able to make use of them for the Pyra?

- Neelix

 

[SNESFAN]

plus with microusb it serves a dual function

Grench's proposal is for a second microUSB which can only charge. We can only have one fully functioning microUSB port.

eww, yea I only skimmed the thread sorry, thought the discussion was just about having one or not in addition to the single microusb charger.

why not use a miniusb as the 2nd charger in that situation then, that's way more common than the psp barrel jack and adds diversity in situations you don't have a mini cable lying around.

But in the end, I guess it comes down to redundancy vs single point of failure on the power. How much space/complexity is redundancy worth?

@neelix- Why would you need 3 seperate usb hosts? At the point you're using more than 2 I'd just say get a external hub. You'll already have half a rats nets of cables running out of it. Having 2, where one of them was micro would have been more than enough honestly, and in that situation a dedicated redundant power mains would be justified

 

[WizardStan]

My concern with using a "dummy" USB to charge, regardless of micro or mini, is that it looks like it should be used for data. How many times will the question come up asking how to get the second micro/mini USB to work?

 

[SNESFAN]

yea I can see that question popping up, but I'm also not in favor of having the redundancy. I guess just label it power?

 

[klapse]

Is it even legal to sell a device with barrel connector for a charger in the EU?  I recall reading somewhere that the EU recently mandated micro-USB for new devices, but maybe that was just for phones?

 

[Neelix]

@neelix- Why would you need 3 seperate usb hosts? At the point you're using more than 2 I'd just say get a external hub. You'll already have half a rats nets of cables running out of it. Having 2, where one of them was micro would have been more than enough honestly, and in that situation a dedicated redundant power mains would be justified

I probably wouldn't need three hosts,  but the two full size USB ports are USB2 only.  If I wanted to connect a SuperSpeed device the only option is to connect it via the microUSB port in Host mode.

- Neelix

 

[Grench]

The whole question is moot. ED has already created a mock-board that is going to case designers.

We're charging exclusively through the microUSB3 OTG port.

Next topic?

 

[Natsu]

^Not written in stone.

That said,I rather have slower speeds when charging than trying to fit a barrel jack.

 

[Binky]

Is it even legal to sell a device with barrel connector for a charger in the EU?  I recall reading somewhere that the EU recently mandated micro-USB for new devices, but maybe that was just for phones?

The EU guidelines says all devices should have microUSB

There was talk of saying they must have microUSB

Nobody was suggesting that they mustn't have anything else

 

[Neelix]

Is it even legal to sell a device with barrel connector for a charger in the EU?  I recall reading somewhere that the EU recently mandated micro-USB for new devices, but maybe that was just for phones?

The EU guidelines says all devices should have microUSB

There was talk of saying they must have microUSB

Nobody was suggesting that they mustn't have anything else

That seems pretty stupid to me...   What if your device requires a higher voltage than 5v?

- Neelix

 

[Binky]

*mobile* devices

 

[slaeshjag]

Thankfully, not even the EU parlament is stupid enough to try making laptops charge over µUSB

 

[Neelix]

Thankfully, not even the EU parlament is stupid enough to try making laptops charge over µUSB

Of course you realise, just saying that is enough to boost their stupidity level to previously unreached heights...

@Binky  Thanks for fixing the poll options.   (assuming it was you who did it)

- Neelix

 

[_wb_]

When I got my Pandora I was still using a BlackBerry with a miniUSB charging/sync port. The 700mA charger from the BB worked great with the Pandora. In fact, my regular travel thing was to bring a 3' miniUSB sync cable and the one BlackBerry charger. At night I would plug in the Pandora to the 700mA charger and then the BlackBerry into the USB port on the Pandora - using the short sync cable. It worked -great-.

Daisy chain charging for the win! I remember bringing two Pandoras, one charger and one external hard disk to a holiday with the in-laws. My father-in-law and brother-in-law got hooked on playing Not Tetris, and one of the evenings both of the Pandoras had a low battery and I had only one charger. Luckily, the external hard disk happened to have a miniUSB-B to USB cable so I could use that to daisy chain charge one Pandora from the other one

Anyway, is there nobody who can answer the question below?

In any case, I think the use case of wanting to be able to charge the unit while also using a SuperSpeed USB3 device is enough of a reason to include the barrel jack.


- Neelix

Are you sure this is not possible using just µUSB? I'm imagining a µUSB charger that still allows you to plug in a USB3 device.

I think this is the breaking question, really. There has been statements that "This ought to be possible" and "According to the spec, it is possible", but there has been no practical example, as in "Look at this charger thingy here - This makes it possible to do it". My preference for the barrel jack is more out of usability and trust (I like to be able to differentiate my data and power sources, and I know I have no problem getting barrel jack chargers in any combination of voltage and amperage), but the possibility that we might end up with a situation where Neelix use case (which is more or less where we want the Pyra to work, right?) fails because we cant supply enough juice is a bit scary.

 

[WizardStan]

Anyway, is there nobody who can answer the question below?

You're looking for an "accessory charging adapter" (ACA). While the spec says they can be used, in practice I've learned that it seems only Nokia phones natively support it and a few other phones support it with a hacked kernel (that introduces some other miner problems, like it doesn't actually look like it's charging even though it is), but not all hardware can support it. It needs to be heavily integrated with the PMIC in order to do it apparently, and I'm not sure exactly what is involved in doing so. It could be that the OMAP5 or the chosen PMIC just can't do it.Hmmm, on page 5372 and beyond it mentions the data IC and the power IC being split in two, implying that at least the SoC is set up to be able to, theoretically, charge and act as host simultaneously.

Yes, actually, Table 23-1250 mentions ACA support in a register that can be read. How that register is set is probably somewhere in the hardware design, but at the very least it looks like confirmation that the OMAP5 can handle ACA if configured properly.

All that being said, despite the fact that Nokia phones apparently support this feature, I can't find a single cable for it. Maybe someone else can have better luck?

 

[Grench]

Not a cable, but an electronic equivalent example.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Smart-Multimedia-Active/dp/B009QW3TBK

I have one. It allows charging the phone, access to the HDMI port, audio out, internal hub supporting 3 USB ports all simultaneously through one USB/MHL connector on the phone. The dock itself plugs into the wall via the compact 2.1A USB to microUSB charger that came with the phone.

So - charging while using the USB 3.0 OTG port should be possible - with an adapter that can break it out.

That was kind of what I had in mind when I suggested a dedicated charging-only microUSB port.

We would need something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Smays-MicroUSB-Cable-Samsung-Galaxy/dp/B00GDAT2R8

I'm not sure if that can charge both the device and the host (Pyra) though. Probably not as the handshaking needs to take place between the device and the charger to step up the current - and with 2 'devices' from the charger's perspective... It would probably have to be more intelligent than a 'dumb cable'.

 

[slaeshjag]

Well, since it seems like a pretty rare cable, I'd hate to lose that one...