Charging connectors

[Binky]

The Pyra will have a microUSB3.0 (otg) connector - that much is certain.

I, and a few others have expressed concern that the microUSB connector may not be strong enough.

There have been many cases of products with mechanically unsound µUSB connectors, such as the n900. Equally, there are plenty of people who have had no problem at all with the socket ripping of the board.

It has also been suggested that many (cheap) µUSB chargers aren't up to supplying the power needed by a device with such a large battery.

Clearly, these are both problems that can be avoided with careful design and planning. Equally clearly, it is vital that we get this right, or people's Pyras will be turning into $500 bricks after they become impossible to charge.

One possible way to avoid stress on the µUSB port would be to have a barrel-jack connector too, in the same way as the pandora. This would also provide a back-up charging method. The connectors are easily available, and have been sold with most charging kits sold since the PSP came out. If you're like me, you have a bunch of wall-warts with the right adaptor, some of which can supply significantly more than 500mA.

You may also have a pandora charger, which would do the job nicely.

One the other hand, another connector (and one which isn't strictly necessary) takes up precious board space that might be used for something else.

 

[Natsu]

lol@ the choices in the poll.

 

[Fzero]

Meh? for me.

I've had no problems with USB charging with other devices, but if the barrel style will allow more power, that sounds better to me, plus have one on my Pandora anyway so be good to have another of the same and then could keep one in each room, ready to charge either Pandora or Pyra.

But, if you say that valuable space on the board could be used for something else ... I'd probably prefer something else, and just use USB

 

[WizardStan]

if the barrel style will allow more power

It doesn't, there's no reason a USB charger can't provide the same 2A that a barrel charger does. You would obviously need to plug it into a wall, charging from a PC would only get you the max of 500ma obviously.This is also technically possible on the Pandora.

 

[Annales]

I think the dummy board was sent to the factory last week. It might be too late to discuss this.

 

[sebt3]

That's detail imho.

The board they got is to prepare a sample for ED. There will be a few revision between now and the final moult production. If this discussion have to happen it's now or never

 

[Fzero]

if the barrel style will allow more power

It doesn't, there's no reason a USB charger can't provide the same 2A that a barrel charger does. You would obviously need to plug it into a wall, charging from a PC would only get you the max of 500ma obviously.
This is also technically possible on the Pandora.

In that case, I'd be fine with just charging from USB, makes it easy, I have plenty of those around the flat anyway, and would mostly charge from the wall outlet anyway.

I guess the option to charge from the PC/laptop, albeit only at 500ma max, is a nice bonus, for when you out and about without a charger, normally somewhere you can nab a USB cable and borrow someones PC to grab a little charge from

 

[dimag0g]

I don't think a separate power connector is necessary, or was necessary with P1. However, I like the idea of having the same charger for both P1 and P2.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I would like to see the barrel-jack charger coming back...


USB charging is just for backup when the barrel-jack breaks

 

[EvilDragon]

Micro-USB is a lot more robust than Mini-USB.

The issue with some things like the N900 breaking from it (I've got THREE broken ones!) is because of a really bad implementation.

Then again, a barrel jack would break out as well (if it was included like the Micro-USB port in the N900).

Good examples of Micro/Mini USB-Ports are the Sony Xperia phones. It never broke for me, as it's pretty much fixed into the case, so no force is happening ever on the board PCB itself.

That's what we plan to do here as well.

 

[benoitb]

I charge all my devices with uUSB and especially look for it when buying something. For exemple it was a big factor of choice to buy my camera (few cameras charge with a uUSB socket).

It is convenient when I travel lightly or by bicycle to be able to carry 2 very light chargers (a 1.5A and a 800mA) for several devices (tablet, phone, wife's phone, camera, extra battery).

That being said if I can charge with uUSB AND there is another option, I don't mind.

 

[WizardStan]

I've had my phone for 4 years and have done all manner of mishandling of it, including yanking on the charge cable and supporting it by it and it has held on through all of that. We're talking close to 2000 plug/unplug cycles at least and it still feels as strong as the day I got it. I have confidence that a microUSB charging port can be done right.

But that point about not being able to charge and use the USB3 port at the same time is a very good counter point. That causes a bit of trouble for a docking station.

 

[Neelix]

For me it was never about the strength of the connector. However I really don't want the only power connector multiplexed with the only USB3/OTG connector.

- Neelix

 

[EvilDragon]

But that point about not being able to charge and use the USB3 port at the same time is a very good counter point. That causes a bit of trouble for a docking station.

Hm? Why?

All phones I had so far could connect via Micro USB to the PC and charge at the same time?

 

[_wb_]

The Pyra will have a microUSB3.0 (otg) connector - that much is certain.


I, and a few others have expressed concern that the microUSB connector may not be strong enough.


There have been many cases of products with mechanically unsound µUSB connectors, such as the n900. Equally, there are plenty of people who have had no problem at all with the socket ripping of the board.

I trust ED to take care of the mechanical soundness of all the ports. Even if there's a barrel jack charger port, I still want my only USB3 port to be strong

It has also been suggested that many (cheap) µUSB chargers aren't up to supplying the power needed by a device with such a large battery.

I assume that a charger will (at least optionally) be shipped with the Pyra that is able to supply the power we need.

For me it was never about the strength of the connector. However I really don't want the only power connector multiplexed with the only USB3/OTG connector.

Good point. But if you're using the Pyra as a slave device, it will charge from whatever host device you're attaching it to (maybe slower, but still), so you don't lose that much. And if you're using it as a host device, then there are still the other USB ports (ok, they're only USB2, but that's still not that bad). So I can live with that.

That said, is it possible to have a charger that acts like a USB 3.0 hub (containing, say, one or two full-size USB-A 3.0 ports and one or two micro-USB ports, and maybe, why not, a mini-USB port too for backwards compatibility with Pandora accessories) while at the same time charging? That would be really, really cool! It would not only solve Neelix' problem, but it also gives a convenient way to attach full-size USB 3.0 devices.

 

[_wb_]

But that point about not being able to charge and use the USB3 port at the same time is a very good counter point. That causes a bit of trouble for a docking station.

Hm? Why?


All phones I had so far could connect via Micro USB to the PC and charge at the same time?

Yes, but only in slave mode. If you want to use USB 3.0 to attach a fast external hard disk, you need host mode, and then you cannot charge.

 

[Neelix]

But that point about not being able to charge and use the USB3 port at the same time is a very good counter point. That causes a bit of trouble for a docking station.

Hm? Why?

All phones I had so far could connect via Micro USB to the PC and charge at the same time?

If the port is in use as USB3 then it is Host mode, and is likely to be draining the battery rather than charging it.

If it's in use as OTG then unless it happens to be connected to a USB3 port it's only getting 500mA max.

- Neelix

EDIT: removed unattributed quote

 

[WizardStan]

All phones I had so far could connect via Micro USB to the PC and charge at the same time?

In slave mode. Once you kick it over to USB3.0 host it should stop charging as it is now providing the power, not taking it. You would not be able to use USB3.0 devices and charge at the same time.

If it's in use as OTG then unless it happens to be connected to a USB3 port it's only getting 500mA max.

Making it work in slave mode with an alternate power source that can provide more than 500ma is trivial.

 

[Askarus]

With the micro USB as charger can I do following:

Use a HUB and do

1: charging

2: Use DisplayLink

3: Use high speed SSD/HDD

 

[Binky]

Can µUSB ever (with a hub/special adaptor, or otherwise) be used to charge the device acting as logical host?

I have a feeling it can theoretically, but I'm not sure if any chargers allow you to do that.

Can/could a charger be designed to charge @2A from a mains adaptor, while still allowing the Pyra to be a slave device to a host computer only supplying 500mA?