Center Click Vs More Travel

[sindbad]

I expect that both one of the nubs and the touchscreen will be usable at the same time by default, no switching.

 

[Kyo]

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

[Snu]

One question has occurred to me: What are dual analog controls used for? I really can't imagine using both at the exact time personally, but this may be just because of lack of experience on my part.

ever played a fps on a modern console? best control method is using one analog for movement (sometimes this is mapped to the dpad or buttons, but analog allows for walking/running), and one for look. also, its common for 3d flying shooter games. for such games, you would only have two buttons available.
i say we need either center click, or l2/r2 buttons.

 

[Trip]

As I put on the other thread..

The Pandora to me means that more open source games can be ported that couldn't work on the 2X because they rely on 3D hardware and better controls than a joypad.
Most of the best open source games can be placed within 4 categories, FPS, RTS, SHUMPS and PUZZLE games.

Puzzle games don't normally need 3D so most of them have been ported to the 2X anyway and work fine with a joypad.

First person shooters play best on consoles with decent joysticks. Better targeting is essential for these games to be enjoyable.

Realtime Strategies play best on a console with a decent joystick. Better joystick means easier selection of units which is critical to game play.

and guess what.. shoot'em ups play best on a console with a decent joystick, as it's easier to dodge all the bullets flying around the screen.

Thought I'd better re-post it here for anyone wondering about what the joysticks can be used for

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

ever played a fps on a modern console? best control method is using one analog for movement (sometimes this is mapped to the dpad or buttons, but analog allows for walking/running), and one for look. also, its common for 3d flying shooter games. for such games, you would only have two buttons available.
i say we need either center click, or l2/r2 buttons.

I'm still not exactly grasping why you all need more buttons. Center click, L2/R2 are wonderful, but at the end of the day, they're just buttons. There's a huge array of buttons on the keyboard directly below the gaming controls that could be potentially mapped to whatever actions you want. Would it be as comfortable as, say, center click or additional shoulder buttons? Probably not. But it'd work. Buttons such as center click and added shoulder buttons are not necessary for most games, anyways. The cost of re-tooling the case for added shoulder buttons isn't worth it.

Besides, if you really want a second shoulder button, it'd be a relatively simple, 4-wire mod, provided you're up for some basic soldering.

 

[CandidStan]

What I don't understand is why everyone is so eager to mod their Pandora, why not have the things you want rather then risking breaking your device?

Just come to a decision, it seems the majority wants 2mm with no click, and only a fraction wants 1mm with click. My question is why not redesign with removable modules, ship the unit with 2mm no click, and release 1mm with click later.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

What I don't understand is why everyone is so eager to mod their Pandora, why not have the things you want rather then risking breaking your device?

Just come to a decision, it seems the majority wants 2mm with no click, and only a fraction wants 1mm with click. My question is why not redesign with removable modules, ship the unit with 2mm no click, and release 1mm with click later.

People mod things because it's fun and they're good at it. The opportunity cost is theirs to decide.

Making the analog nubs modular would cost a lot of dough and opens a whole new can of worms as far as motherboard and case design. It's not going to happen, is what I'm saying. The people who voted for 1mm without click did so not so much because they care about click, but because it would get the Pandora in their hands faster and they see no problem with inferior sticks. What I'm trying to say is that no one would care if they released alternative 1mm click sticks in the future. If anything, they'll just make later models with a larger analog nub movement area and click, if they make these changes at all.

 

[MagicPants]

There's another PSP nub from the same manufactorer

PSP2000 analog controller

Here's the one someone else posted:

Analog pad for PSP

Here's another:

Replacement Psp analog switch button module black

 

[Snu]

I'm still not exactly grasping why you all need more buttons. Center click, L2/R2 are wonderful, but at the end of the day, they're just buttons. There's a huge array of buttons on the keyboard directly below the gaming controls that could be potentially mapped to whatever actions you want. Would it be as comfortable as, say, center click or additional shoulder buttons? Probably not. But it'd work. Buttons such as center click and added shoulder buttons are not necessary for most games, anyways. The cost of re-tooling the case for added shoulder buttons isn't worth it.

Besides, if you really want a second shoulder button, it'd be a relatively simple, 4-wire mod, provided you're up for some basic soldering.

try reaching those extra buttons while walking and aiming... not gonna happen. buttons needed while walking and aiming could include (depending on the game): shoot, jump, reload, zoom, secondary weapon (ie, grenades or whatever) or secondary fire mode, action button (open doors, use item, whatever), switch weapon, crouch/crawl/roll. for instance, if the primary fire and secondary would have to be the l and r, jumping would be very hard.

in most cases actions could be mapped to other keys, like zoom could be a button on the left since it mostly is used while you are standing still and aiming, reload could be a key on the right since you are usually ducking out of the way while you do so, and dont necesarily need to fire, action usually doesnt require aiming. still, only having two buttons while using both sticks would severely limit most fps or 3d shooter games.

as for adding the shoulder buttons myself, its not reletively simple. as you mentioned, it would require retooling the case...

mind you, im certainly not saying i would prefer the 1mm throw with center click either.

 

[xafier]

FPS control would be simple

L analogue - movement
R analogue - look around
L button - reload
R button - fire

Then just assign other things like throw grenade to a d-pad button ie up, and d-pad left and right to swap weapons...

There's lots of different opportunities without adding lots of extra buttons especially to the analogue stick!

 

[Trip]

FPS control would be simple

L analogue - movement
R analogue - look around
L button - reload
R button - fire

Then just assign other things like throw grenade to a d-pad button ie up, and d-pad left and right to swap weapons...

There's lots of different opportunities without adding lots of extra buttons especially to the analogue stick!

And once again as I mentioned in the other thread..
You can always use a modifier key to give the shoulder buttons two different actions each.
I would suggest using the top 8 key as it's closest to the right joystick, meaning minimal stretching while still being able to dodge

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Agreed, Tripmonkey and Xafier. My point is, Snu, there's no point in re-tooling things this late in the game and driving up production cost because a couple games would be better off with an extra button here and there; clearly there are plenty of other control options offered on the Pandora to satisfy any gaming need.

If it frustrates you to a degree of unplayability for FPS, you could always pair it with a PS3 controller or hook up that USB 360 controller, after all!

 

[chad78]

For those confused by the need for other inputs than the touchscreen...

How do you left-click with a non-multitouch touchscreen?

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

For those confused by the need for other inputs than the touchscreen...

How do you left-click with a non-multitouch touchscreen?

Single tap I'd have said. How would you implement it?

 

[dblank]

For those confused by the need for other inputs than the touchscreen...

How do you left-click with a non-multitouch touchscreen?

hold a button when tapping, tap and hold, etc.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

On Windows Mobile/CE devices, you simply hold down the stylus until a small ring circles completely around it (takes about a second, maybe a bit more) and then the left click is initiated. It's easy enough, I think that's what the Pandora will do. Or at least, something like that.

 

[chad78]

How do you left-click with a non-multitouch touchscreen?
sorry - I meant right-click. Some of you got that, though. Thanks for reading what I meant and not what I said.

 

[gaterooze]

try reaching those extra buttons while walking and aiming... not gonna happen. buttons needed while walking and aiming could include (depending on the game): shoot, jump, reload, zoom, secondary weapon (ie, grenades or whatever) or secondary fire mode, action button (open doors, use item, whatever), switch weapon, crouch/crawl/roll. for instance, if the primary fire and secondary would have to be the l and r, jumping would be very hard.

Halo uses the A button to jump and doesn't use the stick-clicks at all (and the Xbox controller has only 2 shoulder pads). PSP plays FPSes with only 1 analogue stick (no click) and 2 shoulder buttons.

I think we'll be fine

 

[God Ginrai]

FPS control would be simple

L analogue - movement
R analogue - look around
L button - reload
R button - fire

Then just assign other things like throw grenade to a d-pad button ie up, and d-pad left and right to swap weapons...

There's lots of different opportunities without adding lots of extra buttons especially to the analogue stick!

And how would you jump?

FPS control would be simple

L analogue - movement
R analogue - look around
L button - reload
R button - fire

Then just assign other things like throw grenade to a d-pad button ie up, and d-pad left and right to swap weapons...

There's lots of different opportunities without adding lots of extra buttons especially to the analogue stick!

And once again as I mentioned in the other thread..
You can always use a modifier key to give the shoulder buttons two different actions each.
I would suggest using the top 8 key as it's closest to the right joystick, meaning minimal stretching while still being able to dodge


Ok, to tell you the truth, I ignored your comment about the modifiers earlier, because I figured someone else would respond to it. Using modifiers is completely impractical for fast-paced gameplay. It's way to easy to mess up and uses up valuable time.

try reaching those extra buttons while walking and aiming... not gonna happen. buttons needed while walking and aiming could include (depending on the game): shoot, jump, reload, zoom, secondary weapon (ie, grenades or whatever) or secondary fire mode, action button (open doors, use item, whatever), switch weapon, crouch/crawl/roll. for instance, if the primary fire and secondary would have to be the l and r, jumping would be very hard.

Halo uses the A button to jump and doesn't use the stick-clicks at all (and the Xbox controller has only 2 shoulder pads). PSP plays FPSes with only 1 analogue stick (no click) and 2 shoulder buttons.

I think we'll be fine


1) Halo did use the stick click.

2) Halo is a completely different kind of FPS from the FPSes that people have been talking about porting, These computer FPSes that people want ported are much more about fast-paced, multi-tasking play, where you will be required to jump and aim, while moving and shooting. (Much other different combinations arise in these FPSes as well)

3) PSP isn't really a good handheld for FPSes IMHO

-God Ginrai

 

[Karel Jansens]

sorry - I meant right-click. Some of you got that, though. Thanks for reading what I meant and not what I said.

Tap-and-hold seems to be the commonest. Ideally of course, you'd want a touchscreen User Interface that doesn't need a right click.

Cue NewtonOS (as always)...