Center Click Vs More Travel

[gaterooze]

1) Halo did use the stick click.

You're right now that I think about it, however it was only for crouch and sniper scope, both of which can easily be mapped to other buttons without decreasing gameplay.

QUOTE
2) Halo is a completely different kind of FPS from the FPSes that people have been talking about porting, These computer FPSes that people want ported are much more about fast-paced, multi-tasking play, where you will be required to jump and aim, while moving and shooting. (Much other different combinations arise in these FPSes as well)


Never played Halo online? There's a lot of fast-paced jumping going on...

QUOTE
3) PSP isn't really a good handheld for FPSes IMHO


I agree, however name a handheld that is? I personally don't even consider consoles well-suited for FPSes, despite enjoying them. Nothing compares to a mouse and keyboard. But heck, I also had a lot of fun playing Quake on the GP2X, with very limited controls. My point is, not having stick-clicks or a 2nd set of shoulder buttons won't make the Pandora *bad* for FPSes.

 

[Tobriand]

The people who voted for 1mm without click did so not so much because they care about click, but because it would get the Pandora in their hands faster and they see no problem with inferior sticks.

I'd just like to point out that, as per one of MWeston's most recent posts, this is simply not true. The 2mm pad sans click is as readily available as the 1mm one (being the psp's analogue pad and all).

The one that would have caused delays would have been a custom pad at 2mm (or higher) *with* a click.

Of course, MWeston has still gone on record as mentioning August explicitly, but I suspect that may have been the case with either of the options in the poll...

 

[Trip]

And once again as I mentioned in the other thread..
You can always use a modifier key to give the shoulder buttons two different actions each.
I would suggest using the top 8 key as it's closest to the right joystick, meaning minimal stretching while still being able to dodge

Ok, to tell you the truth, I ignored your comment about the modifiers earlier, because I figured someone else would respond to it. Using modifiers is completely impractical for fast-paced gameplay. It's way to easy to mess up and uses up valuable time.

I don't agree.

If you were playing on-line against people using mouse + keyboard on a PC, then yeah it would make a difference. You can't possibly expect people using joysticks/pads to be able to aim as fast as someone with a mouse (except maybe a pro-gamer). I would have thought that people will set up dedicated Pandora servers to make sure it's a fair match anyway.
If it's Pandora only server that your playing on, then everyone else would have the same handicap as you, which would mean no slow down and a constant speed in the overall game.
i.e If everybody has the same handicap, then it's classed as normal.

Secondly.. if you were using a pc for gaming, you would still need to move your hand to select a different key anyway so what's the difference?

 

[KRH]

A USB Hub and TV out Defeats your Arguments

 

[Trip]

A USB Hub and TV out Defeats your Arguments

I was thinking about just using the Pandora to be honest

But the point still stands that people buy new consoles/handhelds all the time and adapt to new controllers. Why should this one be any different?

EDIT: Ok; so people using a different joystick/pad through a hub might have a slight advantage, but no more than the people who buy dedicated gaming keyboards, more precise mice or console controllers with no wires and more responsive buttons just to get an edge in games.

 

[Kings]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjOcyN5Bnmk

I think its a given that more travel is better. And the smaller one just doesn't fit the Pandora's size.

 

[God Ginrai]

Never played Halo online? There's a lot of fast-paced jumping going on...

Never played TF2? You won't think of what happens in Halo as "fast-paced" ever again.

And once again as I mentioned in the other thread..
You can always use a modifier key to give the shoulder buttons two different actions each.
I would suggest using the top 8 key as it's closest to the right joystick, meaning minimal stretching while still being able to dodge

Ok, to tell you the truth, I ignored your comment about the modifiers earlier, because I figured someone else would respond to it. Using modifiers is completely impractical for fast-paced gameplay. It's way to easy to mess up and uses up valuable time.

I don't agree.

If you were playing on-line against people using mouse + keyboard on a PC, then yeah it would make a difference. You can't possibly expect people using joysticks/pads to be able to aim as fast as someone with a mouse (except maybe a pro-gamer). I would have thought that people will set up dedicated Pandora servers to make sure it's a fair match anyway.
If it's Pandora only server that your playing on, then everyone else would have the same handicap as you, which would mean no slow down and a constant speed in the overall game.
i.e If everybody has the same handicap, then it's classed as normal.

Secondly.. if you were using a pc for gaming, you would still need to move your hand to select a different key anyway so what's the difference?


So, if everyone has shitty controls, then everyone will play the same? I'm sorry but just because you make it easier for EVERYONE to make mistakes doesn't mean you're making the gameplay experience better.

-God Ginrai

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

The people who voted for 1mm without click did so not so much because they care about click, but because it would get the Pandora in their hands faster and they see no problem with inferior sticks.

I'd just like to point out that, as per one of MWeston's most recent posts, this is simply not true. The 2mm pad sans click is as readily available as the 1mm one (being the psp's analogue pad and all).

The one that would have caused delays would have been a custom pad at 2mm (or higher) *with* a click.

Of course, MWeston has still gone on record as mentioning August explicitly, but I suspect that may have been the case with either of the options in the poll...

Yeah, I remember that now. Sorry. I keep getting this damn thread mixed up with that other one that had a similar poll.

And GodGinrai, I'd hardly call these controls "shitty" just because you're not a fan of them. The Pandora will be able to play most FPS games just fine, you'll just have to get used to the button layout.

 

[Rayek]

I voted a while ago, but it's worth noting...

I almost voted for center click, then I stopped and thought about it for a second... 1mm is tiny... TINY give... 2mm isn't the best either, but its definitely a lot better. And considering how little I actually have used center-click in most games that I've played (Sega consoles, mind you... No center click ) it was a given.

 

[Trip]

So, if everyone has shitty controls, then everyone will play the same? I'm sorry but just because you make it easier for EVERYONE to make mistakes doesn't mean you're making the gameplay experience better.

-God Ginrai

Just because the controls are different, doesn't mean they are shitty <_<

EDIT: Sorry CTF, you posted before I had finished typing

 

[CandidStan]

What I don't understand is why everyone is so eager to mod their Pandora, why not have the things you want rather then risking breaking your device?

Just come to a decision, it seems the majority wants 2mm with no click, and only a fraction wants 1mm with click. My question is why not redesign with removable modules, ship the unit with 2mm no click, and release 1mm with click later.

People mod things because it's fun and they're good at it. The opportunity cost is theirs to decide.

Making the analog nubs modular would cost a lot of dough and opens a whole new can of worms as far as motherboard and case design. It's not going to happen, is what I'm saying. The people who voted for 1mm without click did so not so much because they care about click, but because it would get the Pandora in their hands faster and they see no problem with inferior sticks. What I'm trying to say is that no one would care if they released alternative 1mm click sticks in the future. If anything, they'll just make later models with a larger analog nub movement area and click, if they make these changes at all.


That happens to be a very broad answer. I know people enjoy modding things, and maybe they are good at it, that's not the point. Just because your good at something doesn't mean you can't make mistakes, and electronics are not very forgiving when it comes to mistakes as I'm sure all of us know and have experienced. I really don't care if someone wants to mod their pandora, thats their problem. However I do care If I HAVE TO mod my Pandora to get it to have a feature I want. Good, if its not going to happen then that's perfectly fine. I think the fraction of people who voted for click would care. Who said anything about later models?

 

[WizardStan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjOcyN5Bnmk

I think its a given that more travel is better. And the smaller one just doesn't fit the Pandora's size.


I don't know why, but I think my favourite part was the *snap* at the end
Cracked me up something fierce! :lol:

 

[JakeK]

1) Halo did use the stick click.

2) Halo is a completely different kind of FPS from the FPSes that people have been talking about porting, These computer FPSes that people want ported are much more about fast-paced, multi-tasking play, where you will be required to jump and aim, while moving and shooting. (Much other different combinations arise in these FPSes as well)

3) PSP isn't really a good handheld for FPSes IMHO

-God Ginrai

Halo did use the stick click, but it wasn't a key function.

Halo is much slower than say TF2. If you want psychotic gameplay play TF2. PSP probably isn't but then again most handhelds probably aren't.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

QUOTE
However I do care If I HAVE TO mod my Pandora to get it to have a feature I want. Good, if its not going to happen then that's perfectly fine. I think the fraction of people who voted for click would care. Who said anything about later models?

It's a four wire mod. I just put it out there as an alternative for those who know how to solder, you don't have to mod anything. And you mentioned a later model, man...
QUOTE
...and release 1mm with click later.

 

[Edy]

what, we only get these two options?
what happened to 'lets wait for the best possible solution'?
frankly, this poll doesnt make sense, and both options suck...

+1
I didn't vote this poll because of that.

Actually, I believe that a bit more of delay would even be good for developers who already have the Mk0. They would have more time to improve their ongoing projects. Don't forget that this is what the pandora will have in the first release.

i think of playing fps games, or flying games where you use both analog sticks at once... only having two buttons accessable would be horrible. and dont give me that 'the buttons are right under the nubs, just use those!', would take too long, the same as trying to switch between the nub and the abxy buttons.
and as for those who say they accidentally hit the center click, you can just disable the button mapping in the joystick driver.

+2

 

[jmetal88]

Heh, just a thought, I don't know how well this would work, but maybe there should be Atari 2600-style dome switches or something similar (preferably better, but that's all I could think of at the moment that was relatively flat) on the PCB and the 2mm no-click nubs could rest on top of them, creating an 'artificial' center click.

I hope this idea is as good as it sounds to me right now, but I am rather sleepy so feel free to pick it apart if you want. Besides I think someone else mentioned something about some kind of switches in another thread, and I don't intend to take anyone else's ideas.

EDIT: If something like this was tried, the nub should probably be mounted to the board using some kind of springy material to provide extra pressing resistance, and connected with a bit of ribbon cable or something so the solder joints don't break. There might possibly also need to be some ridges of some kind attached to the PCB or the case (probably would be easier to just put those into the case mold) to prevent excess movement of the nub due to placement on the aforementioned springy material.

 

[Julius]

Halo is much slower than say TF2. If you want psychotic gameplay play TF2.

TF2 is actually know for it's relative slowness in the PC world (especially the characters move really slow).
Try Quake3 or Sauerbraten if you want a really fast game

But this proves again the absolute inferiority of consoles when it comes to FPS games.

 

[Yrx]

But this proves again the absolute inferiority of consoles when it comes to FPS games.

Eh. I still enjoy the original Perfect Dark over any other FPS I've played. You just can't beat how much sheer fun the multiplayer is. Especially set up for dual analog in an emulator...

 

[God Ginrai]

The people who voted for 1mm without click did so not so much because they care about click, but because it would get the Pandora in their hands faster and they see no problem with inferior sticks.

I'd just like to point out that, as per one of MWeston's most recent posts, this is simply not true. The 2mm pad sans click is as readily available as the 1mm one (being the psp's analogue pad and all).

The one that would have caused delays would have been a custom pad at 2mm (or higher) *with* a click.

Of course, MWeston has still gone on record as mentioning August explicitly, but I suspect that may have been the case with either of the options in the poll...

And GodGinrai, I'd hardly call these controls "shitty" just because you're not a fan of them.


It's called a Reductio ad absurdum. Proof by contradiction. You might want to read up on it sometime, you might learn something: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Halo is much slower than say TF2. If you want psychotic gameplay play TF2.

TF2 is actually know for it's relative slowness in the PC world (especially the characters move really slow).
Try Quake3 or Sauerbraten if you want a really fast game

But this proves again the absolute inferiority of consoles when it comes to FPS games.


You just helped prove my point that these computer FPSes that people want ported are a lot faster-paced.

-God Ginrai

 

[JakeK]

Halo is much slower than say TF2. If you want psychotic gameplay play TF2.

TF2 is actually know for it's relative slowness in the PC world (especially the characters move really slow).
Try Quake3 or Sauerbraten if you want a really fast game

But this proves again the absolute inferiority of consoles when it comes to FPS games.


Bullshit. I played it since the beta and it has always been hectic. The difference difference between TF2 and Quake is that Quake just has super fast running. Otherwise the matches you play in TF2 are shit, I get at the top of the leaderboard 80% of the time and it is non-stop for me, and the characters I play as are Demoman, Sniper and Spy.

There are many more FPS's out there that are are slower than TF2; CoD4 is an example. I have never heard the comment that TF2 is known for being slow, but it sounds like absolute crap.