Center Click Vs More Travel

[timofonic]

Guys... this is about Pandora analog joystick and not about FPS games!

Back to the topic, okay?

 

[God Ginrai]

Guys... this is about Pandora analog joystick and not about FPS games!

Back to the topic, okay?

I was just making a statement about FPSes to prove one of my points that had to to with why we need a good analog nub. The posts made by others also didn't stray far from the topic, and most of them tied it back in some way. If you can't realize how FPSes and the analog nubs are related, then that is due to your short-sightedness, not the others.

-God Ginrai

 

[CandidStan]

What about the UMPC aspect of the Pandora? I'm sure there will be some sort of cursor on the screen for the OS. Anyone heard of click AND drag?

 

[mindlord]

I have trouble understanding why anyone would want to use an analog nub to navigate on a device that has a touchscreen.

 

[JakeK]

I have trouble understanding why anyone would want to use an analog nub to navigate on a device that has a touchscreen.

That and many other more viable and easy ways.

 

[BackAssward]

As this is a gaming device first, and an UMPC second, I am still in favor of an analog that can meet gamings needs.

Never having used a PSP before, I went and tried one today, and I find that the PSP analog isn't very great at all. I'm more than willing to pay $10 more for a unit with proper analogs (lets say 2.5mm or 3mm) and wait for the development of them (increasing the delivery time).

Lets say that if development of a new one is $25k, that's what, an extra $9 dollar per device if we only count the first 3k. As for the 'per unit price' of each analog, I'm sure it's the same (or equivalent to) the original ones to manufacture.

I already was willing to front the $25k, if it was returned as a portion of the sales. But we know there is funding beyond anything I could offer.

So the real question is if they are willing to follow the painful process of developing another analog, and if we will wait for a proper solution and agree that they should get a better analog than the PSP.


Seriously, if you haven't held a PSP and tried it, do so... I don't think you'll want that analog in the end (well, you won't if you are a gamer, the UMPC crowd is another matter).

Is this still primarily a niche gaming device or not?

 

[quartercast]

I don't know if this has been raised before, but have the Pandora devs thought about the impact of this choice on dual analog use? Call me ignorant, but what was dual analog supposed to be used for? Would choices a/b have any detrimental effect on this purpose?

I imagine the L/R buttons could be used as inputs, but for a dual-analog purpose you're really going from 4 buttons -> 2 buttons if centre click is not available.

 

[doc5avage]

I don't know if this has been raised before, but have the Pandora devs thought about the impact of this choice on dual analog use? Call me ignorant, but what was dual analog supposed to be used for? Would choices a/b have any detrimental effect on this purpose?

I imagine the L/R buttons could be used as inputs, but for a dual-analog purpose you're really going from 4 buttons -> 2 buttons if centre click is not available.

I believe that they have weighed up the consequences. Of course there are implications in this descision, but it is the lesser of two wevils. The loss of 2 stick clicks, were considered negligible by the majority of the community in favour of greater analog travel.

Besides this, stick click could be mapped to any of the keys on the qwerty keyboard, if you happen to stumble on a game that needs it. So far, my PSP which plays PSX games has not needed a stick click re-mapped. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Trip]

Never having used a PSP before, I went and tried one today, and I find that the PSP analog isn't very great at all.

So the real question is if they are willing to follow the painful process of developing another analog, and if we will wait for a proper solution and agree that they should get a better analog than the PSP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware none of the devs have even said anything about using the actual PSP nub. It was mentioned that it might be a good enough replacement being 2mm (with a new cap on it though), but I don't think it's been confirmed that it's even being seriously considered at the moment.

This threads to see which people would prefer, given a choice between having a centre click or a better travel distance on the joysticks.

I don't know if this has been raised before, but have the Pandora devs thought about the impact of this choice on dual analog use? Call me ignorant, but what was dual analog supposed to be used for?

Dual analogue will mainly be useful for FPS's and Emulation of systems like N64. Not that they don't have some fantastic possibilities for homebrew as well though


EDIT: I can see Craig and co. talking to the people who made the original one's and seeing if they can make them without the stick click. Loosing the stick click would mean that the company could save money (+make money selling them) and at the same time they could still use the parts that they've already purchased.

The original sticks without the click is something that I can happily live with

 

[zaoin]

QUOTE

Dual analogue will mainly be useful for FPS's and Emulation of systems like N64. Not that they don't have some fantastic possibilities for homebrew as well though

Welcome to Pocket Dimension

I love Thruster from Vilmos. And I love it using the analog.

 

[Trip]

I love Thruster from Vilmos. And I love it using the analog.

:blink: I've never even seen that game before, cheers for the tip. If it plays as well as Noiz2SA I'm sold.

EDIT: Yeah I have, just didn't recognize it from the screen shot. It rocks

 

[Prophet]

Never having used a PSP before, I went and tried one today, and I find that the PSP analog isn't very great at all. I'm more than willing to pay $10 more for a unit with proper analogs (lets say 2.5mm or 3mm) and wait for the development of them (increasing the delivery time).

I've owned a PSP since around the USA launch.

It has a odd analog, especially if you've only used console analogs - which are certainly superior. But the beauty of the PSP nub is that it's small and lies flat - exactly what we need for Pandora. And mine has been very resilient too - I've owned this PSP for years and everything still works like new. So it's a pretty reliable analog component IMO.

And you do get used to it. I actually like it. I know some people really do not, and I respect that. But I have no real problem with the PSP nub. The PSP dpad is another story though - absolutely wretched!

And no matter what analog is used, it will never be comparable to what you find on console pads. There just isn't enough space one like that.

In a perfect world, I agree with you - I'd LOVE to see a custom analog that's better than the PSP analog and manages to include stick click (why not, eh?). But I don't think the dev team is up for it. And for me at least, the PSP analogs are OK.

What about the UMPC aspect of the Pandora? I'm sure there will be some sort of cursor on the screen for the OS. Anyone heard of click AND drag?

There are many options for this. The action buttons, the shoulder buttons... many options.

Also, we have a touchscreen, which I would think would be better than anything for point/click operations.

 

[gaterooze]

Robotron

 

[mindlord]

Robotron

:angry: Vindicators ...

 

[God Ginrai]

As this is a gaming device first, and an UMPC second, I am still in favor of an analog that can meet gamings needs.

Never having used a PSP before, I went and tried one today, and I find that the PSP analog isn't very great at all. I'm more than willing to pay $10 more for a unit with proper analogs (lets say 2.5mm or 3mm) and wait for the development of them (increasing the delivery time).

Lets say that if development of a new one is $25k, that's what, an extra $9 dollar per device if we only count the first 3k. As for the 'per unit price' of each analog, I'm sure it's the same (or equivalent to) the original ones to manufacture.

I already was willing to front the $25k, if it was returned as a portion of the sales. But we know there is funding beyond anything I could offer.

So the real question is if they are willing to follow the painful process of developing another analog, and if we will wait for a proper solution and agree that they should get a better analog than the PSP.

Seriously, if you haven't held a PSP and tried it, do so... I don't think you'll want that analog in the end (well, you won't if you are a gamer, the UMPC crowd is another matter).

Is this still primarily a niche gaming device or not?



Amen.

So far, my PSP which plays PSX games has not needed a stick click re-mapped. Your mileage may vary.

It's not a click we're trying to map to the stick clicks. It's the L2/R2 operations.

Never having used a PSP before, I went and tried one today, and I find that the PSP analog isn't very great at all. I'm more than willing to pay $10 more for a unit with proper analogs (lets say 2.5mm or 3mm) and wait for the development of them (increasing the delivery time).

I've owned a PSP since around the USA launch.

It has a odd analog, especially if you've only used console analogs - which are certainly superior. But the beauty of the PSP nub is that it's small and lies flat - exactly what we need for Pandora. And mine has been very resilient too - I've owned this PSP for years and everything still works like new. So it's a pretty reliable analog component IMO.

And you do get used to it. I actually like it. I know some people really do not, and I respect that. But I have no real problem with the PSP nub. The PSP dpad is another story though - absolutely wretched!

And no matter what analog is used, it will never be comparable to what you find on console pads. There just isn't enough space one like that.

In a perfect world, I agree with you - I'd LOVE to see a custom analog that's better than the PSP analog and manages to include stick click (why not, eh?). But I don't think the dev team is up for it. And for me at least, the PSP analogs are OK.

What about the UMPC aspect of the Pandora? I'm sure there will be some sort of cursor on the screen for the OS. Anyone heard of click AND drag?

There are many options for this. The action buttons, the shoulder buttons... many options.

Also, we have a touchscreen, which I would think would be better than anything for point/click operations.


Prophet, the beauty of any analog nub is that it will lie flat, and is normally small. that's the point of an analog nub. The PSP's nub is not special in this regard. Also, you've just been as lucky with your nub as I have been with my GP2X stick. Because the launch nubs normally easily broke.

Also, you get used to just about any control. I'm sure used to my GP2X stick. Heck, I'm even used to the Playstation's D-pad, but that doesn't mean that even for a SECOND that it's good controls.

-God Ginrai

 

[Rayek]

Does anyone have an idea of what the stick nub caps will look like? are they going for the design that's in the latest renders? Are we just discussing the hardware behind it all? I think that if we're still using the design that's on the renders (Looks like the DaveC GP2X cap...) then that makes a huge difference, I hate the PSP nub because its not really big enough, and you're using the sides of the nub (because its flat and has tall edges) instead of the inside of the nub to move the stick around (if the Pandora sticks are concave).

 

[fusion_power]

Does anyone have an idea of what the stick nub caps will look like? are they going for the design that's in the latest renders? Are we just discussing the hardware behind it all? I think that if we're still using the design that's on the renders (Looks like the DaveC GP2X cap...) then that makes a huge difference, I hate the PSP nub because its not really big enough, and you're using the sides of the nub (because its flat and has tall edges) instead of the inside of the nub to move the stick around (if the Pandora sticks are concave).

I also want a awnser to this question. The PSP Nub was to plain and small. The old Pandora-cap Design was far better IMHO. DaveC is making the D-Pad, maybe he also want to design a nice Cap for the Analog-Pads even if he don't like Analog Controlls that much. ^_^
I hope the quality of the A-Pads will be as high as every Pandora component and we see at first sight "ah, tese are quality Analog Nubs"

 

[gaterooze]

The first analogue nub cap reminded me of DaveC's first cap mod for the GP2X stick... (i.e. a good thing)

 

[nexferret]

I think myself that this is the only shape that will work well; a dome with a dome cut out of it.

 

[Rayek]

It certainly looks perfect, DaveC's cap for the GP2X looked a lot like this. If this one was used, I wouldn't care too much if it was the PSP nub or not.