Center Click Vs More Travel

[BackAssward]

One question has occurred to me: What are dual analog controls used for? I really can't imagine using both at the exact time personally, but this may be just because of lack of experience on my part. If my experience if accurate however, that both will not be used at the same time, then the question is, when will one be used vs. the other?

If we're thinking the Left will be more of a mouse replacement for games, and the right more of a mouse replacement in general, then here's an out-of-the-box question: Why do both analog controllers need to be the same?

Why not stick the 2mm on the left for gaming controls and accuracy, and the 1mm with click on the right for general mouse emulation?

Personally, I don't have a device to test this on, nor the pads to evaluate, so I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not, but at least it's not a re-hashing of the same back and forth rhetoric. Honestly, why would you want to exactly the same analogs anyway (unless both were perfect and fitted to any situation, which we obviously don't have available).


We really should evaluate what we'd use either analog for, and if an asymmetric implementation would solve the majority of the complaints. Sure, it'd be a bigger pain in the ass to make, but in the end, what is the advantage of 2 identical analogs if neither choice is 'perfect'? (there may be a reason, but as I've said, I don't have the experience to know what it is)

 

[Pickle]

One question has occurred to me: What are dual analog controls used for? I really can't imagine using both at the exact time personally, but this may be just because of lack of experience on my part. If my experience if accurate however, that both will not be used at the same time, then the question is, when will one be used vs. the other?

If we're thinking the Left will be more of a mouse replacement for games, and the right more of a mouse replacement in general, then here's an out-of-the-box question: Why do both analog controllers need to be the same?

Why not stick the 2mm on the left for gaming controls and accuracy, and the 1mm with click on the right for general mouse emulation?

Personally, I don't have a device to test this on, nor the pads to evaluate, so I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not, but at least it's not a re-hashing of the same back and forth rhetoric. Honestly, why would you want to exactly the same analogs anyway (unless both were perfect and fitted to any situation, which we obviously don't have available).

We really should evaluate what we'd use either analog for, and if an asymmetric implementation would solve the majority of the complaints. Sure, it'd be a bigger pain in the ass to make, but in the end, what is the advantage of 2 identical analogs if neither choice is 'perfect'? (there may be a reason, but as I've said, I don't have the experience to know what it is)


It may come down to cost, the higher the quantity the lower the price will go. But if you split the quantity your going to raise the cost.

 

[Trip]

One question has occurred to me: What are dual analog controls used for?

First person shooters use one for moving and one for aiming the gun sights

3D Realtime strategie games use them for navigation too.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

FPS, BackAssward. FPS. Oh, and Ape Escape.

One quick question: Wasn't the original analog nub 2mm? Just wondering.

 

[BackAssward]

FPS, BackAssward. FPS. Oh, and Ape Escape.

One quick question: Wasn't the original analog nub 2mm? Just wondering.

I thought it was more, but I don't have any actual info to quote on that.

Yeah, I came to remove my post after thinking about Goldeneye. The left hand was for movement and the right for analog aiming (with a finger trigger for firing). The 1mm clickable really wouldn't be that great in such a situation, and standardization on both would be better. Still, doesn't hurt to ask . Hopefully I didn't give the trolls more fodder.

 

[kutluch]

Can you use zodiac's analogs?

They are designed yet.

I think they are better than psp's. Psp analogs are toyish.

NOOOO!!!

Zodiac's analog was awful. All sorts of centering issues, they had to do untold replacements and many of those went bad too. And the convex nub design sucked. Tapwave gets credit for having tried something new and innovating, but it didn't really work out well.

In comparison, I never had a single problem with my PSP's analog.


I only know my zodiac's analog works perfect. And I like to touch it. It's sexy.

Anyway. Joystick rules. D-pad are cheapish. D-pad are for kids.

I feel it more "joystick kempston spectrum" than that psp's analog.

I loved my zodiac but That stick was horrible. I went through 4 zodiacs and finally convinced them to send me a new sealed replacement that I sold on ebay. I just really wanted that device to work, and with the exception of the analogue stick it was wonderful. That is the primary reason that I will wait until the second shipment of pandoras. No offense intended, just playing it safe.

 

[God Ginrai]

At first I thought I'd like both, but to be honest now I would slightly prefer it without the click even if we had the choice (just for durability and less finicky while playing). I know most won't agree, and if it *did* have the click it wouldn't be a big problem.

There have been no tests that have said that analog nub clicks would bring down durability. If you can find some, then please link me.

The '2X suffered from this durability issue. You're correct that there is no evidence that the analog nub would be prone to the same lack of build quality, but since it's an issue that has happened before to this scene, I think it's a legit concern.


I considered that that was what you were thinking of, and to tell you the truth, that is as much proof against analog nub stick click as it is against the B button, because the only thing they have in common that has any effect on the outcome is that they are pressed. The fact that they are both used for direction has nothing to do with the durability of it due to clicking. I really don't think you can try to compare it to that, because then you're almost required to say: It shouldn't have buttons due to durability issues.

-God Ginrai

I disagree. There are 53 buttons on the unit, and only 2 analog sticks. Which should be more durable? Complex mechanical things are more likely to fail than simple ones simply because of the increased points of failure. Aside from accidental pressing of the analog button when it isn't intended increasing the frequency of pushes artificially, there is also the fact the stick will be in unusual positions when pressed hard, which may lower the life of the stick itself.
The whole reason the original model was discontinued was because it was too complex and expensive. Why do you have so much faith in a piece of equipment the manufacturer themselves had no faith in, even when there was an offer on the table to purchase 100,000 units?

like ingrin said, there was a reason it was discontinued, the manufactures are not stupid, they thought it sucked so considering we cant see for ourselves we might as well trust them.
Also its fairly simple logic to guess that something with more things that can go wrong, doing more functions, with more use, is more likely to go wrong.
device + normal events that may damage device = normal breakage.
device + more events that may damage device = higher than normal breakage.
is everyone following?

In response to both of these posts: Lack of Durability is not the only reason things get discontinued.

If it was discontinued because it was too complex and expensive, that says nothing about it's durability. It simply says that they don't want to go through the trouble it takes to MAKE it.

Someone could make a really intricate sword and then decide not to make any others because it was too complex and expensive to make it. That doesn't mean that the sword is likely to break.

Stop throwing around unfounded assumptions and trying to prove them with facts that don't even prove anything to that effect.

-God Ginrai

 

[sindbad]

May I plead for discontinuing of the quote tower?

Different nubs would complicate things and the only benefit would be one extra button. Of which there already are a bunch.

 

[MiL0]

man, looking at my IBM Thinkpad as I type this, it would have been really nice if the Pandora had a Trackpoint added (in addition to the two analogue nubs). Control overload? yeah probably, but it doesn't take up a lot of room and is much nicer to use for mouse control than an analogue joystick or a touchscreen thats mounted vertically and prone to movement when pressure from a stylus is applied (assumption of course)

 

[God Ginrai]

Different nubs would complicate things and the only benefit would be one extra button. Of which there already are a bunch.

There's 2 nubs, so there would be 2 added buttons. Also, if we got custom nubs, Iwould think they would be improved to have 2.5mm throw or better, as well, so we would get the added benefit of better controls, as well.

-God Ginrai

 

[Trip]

man, looking at my IBM Thinkpad as I type this, it would have been really nice if the Pandora had a Trackpoint added (in addition to the two analogue nubs). Control overload? yeah probably, but it doesn't take up a lot of room and is much nicer to use for mouse control than an analogue joystick or a touchscreen thats mounted vertically and prone to movement when pressure from a stylus is applied (assumption of course)

Only takes up a little room on the top of the machine but underneath the housing it's a different story altogether, the last time I saw one.

I like the nipples but they always seem to loose centreing after about 10 mins of use. Then you have to stop using it so it will centre itself again

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

It's got a touch screen, it doesn't need a trackpoint, guys.

 

[WizardStan]

It's got a touch screen, it doesn't need a trackpoint, guys.

So I'm not the only one who thinks that? All this discussion about using the the sticks as mouse replacement, I thought I was just going crazy thinking it had a touch screen. :blink:

 

[Trip]

It's got a touch screen, it doesn't need a trackpoint, guys.

So I'm not the only one who thinks that? All this discussion about using the the sticks as mouse replacement, I thought I was just going crazy thinking it had a touch screen. :blink:

Personally, I was just commenting on the trouble with trackpoints in general. I wouldn't want to see one on a handheld device.. ever! <_<

 

[Kyo]

I would like one as a mouse replacement unless used otherwise, because I plan on using it on the bus, where I don't wanna use the touch screen

 

[Trip]

I would like one as a mouse replacement unless used otherwise, because I plan on using it on the bus, where I don't wanna use the touch screen

Just use one of the joysticks then

 

[MagicPants]

I would like one as a mouse replacement unless used otherwise, because I plan on using it on the bus, where I don't wanna use the touch screen

Just use one of the joysticks then



I hope there is an easy way to select pointing devices on the fly. Maybe make the function keys switch between touch screen and one of the nubs? I don't think you'd want the nub active all the time if you are playing a game.

 

[Holokauston]

I would like one as a mouse replacement unless used otherwise, because I plan on using it on the bus, where I don't wanna use the touch screen

May I ask what you are doing on the bus that hinders you from using instant touchscreen as a "mouse" but doesn't hinder trying to precision move a control like a nub with your thumb?

I hate controlling a mouse pointer with a touchpad or a "joystick/nub" (like my mobile has ), is it just me that things touchscreen is much simpler to use?

 

[Null]

May I ask what you are doing on the bus that hinders you from using instant touchscreen as a "mouse" but doesn't hinder trying to precision move a control like a nub with your thumb?

It's the bus that generally hinders people not what they're doing on it, at least it is where I live, the buses are like moving earthquake simulators.

 

[God Ginrai]

I would like one as a mouse replacement unless used otherwise, because I plan on using it on the bus, where I don't wanna use the touch screen

May I ask what you are doing on the bus that hinders you from using instant touchscreen as a "mouse" but doesn't hinder trying to precision move a control like a nub with your thumb?

I hate controlling a mouse pointer with a touchpad or a "joystick/nub" (like my mobile has ), is it just me that things touchscreen is much simpler to use?


Like Lurkio said, buses are not the most stable vehicle. Kyosys was probably worried that he might get jostled and hit his touch screen too hard. You can never be too careful with a touchscreen, I understand where he's coming from.

-God Ginrai