A Plea To Gp32x Posters...

[sterling976]

There's a large part of me that agrees with the OP. I had a look through my posting history this morning, and I'm not exactly happy with the way things have degraded over the last week or so, as reflected in the abrasiveness of some of my own comments. I can even see the point the OP made about community friction scaring away potential developers, but here's the thing... I'm a potential developer for the Pandora and I'd be extremely concerned if the community weren't trying to enforce some basic forum etiquette. Little things -- like reading the posts that have come before, reading the sticky posts, thinking before you post -- aren't that hard to do, yet we have a lot of people not doing that because they're panicked. That's every bit as harmful to the community as the friction is.

Tempers are high, and yeah, there's a little more nastiness than is absolutely necessary, but I haven't yet seen more than a few individuals blatantly violate the forum rules. Those individuals and posts seem to have been handled quickly and maturely by the forum moderators. It wouldn't hurt for all of us to take a step back and turn down the abrasiveness for a while, but I don't think we're at any sort of crisis point.


Edit: This thread moved so fast that the first part of my post is no longer relevant. Mechs still owes me a coke, though.

 

[TrevorBradley]

I trust the Pandora team. I don't think there's anyone who's been here more than a couple of months who doesn't trust the Pandora team. While I understand the concerns of the newcomers who have pre-ordered I firmly believe that those concerns are unjustified. It's not like we don't know who the people we have given our money to are, they have been prominent members of this community for much longer than I have been here. Keeping talking about this isn't going to do anyone any good, there are plenty of other things to post about. We knew that getting to a finished product may be a rocky road, but the end result has never been in doubt.

Oh, and I like everyone, even the trolls

I'd like to think I'm not a troll, though I'm certain a good portion of users think I am.

Even though I'm relatively new to this community (about 15 months), I do have faith in Craig and company. The one thing keeping me from running away scared is that I have full confidence that I'm going to get my money back if I were to ask for it.

Just in time part delay was inevitable. Banking/Paypal issues are annoying as all hell, but resolvable. We're likely not done with annoying but not unresolvable issues.

My concerns (and I believe many of the "concerned" concerns) have to do with that metaphorical "meteor strike"; some sort of unforeseen and unresolveable flaw in the construction process. This is why the "meteor strike" joke was a a bit grating... if something does go badly wrong it will be just like a meteor strike: out of nowhere, didn't see it coming, can't do anything about it.

This is why the number one "unreasonable" request: a video of a working, assembled Pandora, is likely the most effective request to fulfill to quell the fear. It means that it is possible to manufacture a functional Pandora, and the only real issues to remain are various delays instead of show stoppers. I know I'll breathe a lot easier when I see one,. but I am willing to breathe normally and be patient to see it. The "concerneds" are not helping Craig get that vid out any faster by letting their fears pour out.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

Did someone mention something about WINE being ported to the Pandora? Also, anyone that thinks this forum has a lot of sarcasm and raised ego's should log into #c++ on efnet! B)

Not that it's necessarily a good thing to make a competition of which place can be the most hostile! But to be honest I think most people just accept the internet as being a bit rude and ignore it, when I occasionally login to an online game there's normally a stream abuse coming from someone or other on the server about camping/laming/being lucky/being a <insert offensive word>/etc. and for the most part people just ignore it!

Also, never forget how quickly people forget, we can have all the worries, doubts, anticipation, moaning, crying we want, but if in 3 months everyone has got a Pandora in their hand they will have forgotten all about the days when they weren't sure if it was going to turn up and all that faff.

So to sum that up:

People that are being annoying : be less annoying
Everyone else : ignore the people being annoying, I mean it doesn't take much, just don't read there post!

There are much more important things to worry about in this f'd up world than a few sarcastic comments on a forum if you ever find something on the internet annoying you, then go to the cloest fish monger, buy yourself a nice big wet trout, and give yourself a big old slap around the face with it, and remember not to be so easily led in, or silly again.

Steve

 

[javaJake]

Just to repeat what others have said, there are issues on both sides.

Some can't take a hit without screaming back.

Some can't take a few subtly obnoxious posts without post sarcastic, degenerate posts.

I think the answer is everyone needs to take a deep breath, new and mature alike. No one's innocent, here.

(And, as a side note, if anyone feels like a post is against the rules, use the report button instead of writing angry words.)

 

[mali]

@ Trevor Bradley

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree entirely
A little bit more cool-headedness should defuse the situation easily

 

[TrevorBradley]

Little things -- like reading the posts that have come before, reading the sticky posts, thinking before you post -- aren't that hard to do, yet we have a lot of people not doing that because they're panicked.

(emphasis mine)

Very insightful, you've nailed it. Thank you.

This is my intention. To take measures to help quell the panic, so that people will actually take time before posting and not rush. The closed forums are a symptom of panicked or rushed posts on both sides.

I look forward to the day when we can close a topic here by answering the question rather than closing the topic. That day isn't today, I see that and agree with it. But it will come again soon.

 

[Chero]

@ Trevor Bradley

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree entirely
A little bit more cool-headedness should defuse the situation easily

+1

 

[God Ginrai]

Not at all. But on a public Internet forum, such as this one, it is considered common courtesy not to ask questions that have already been asked in the recent past.

This rule of polite Internet society applies, and this is important, even if the original question has not been answered.

Is this how open source communities actually work though? I spent some time in various linux IRC communities lately, ubuntu, mplayer.. They seemed quite eager to answer people's questions in a polite manner, and never griped once about it. Nowhere else have I seen a linux support forum where the response "A simple google search results in..." is ever followed by "Just do a search next time, you're being rude". It would seem to me that this applies moreso to our forums, as they're not particularly organized in an intuitive way or made easy to search (middling difficult is how I'd describe a search for information here).

This however, my just be my opinion or experience, so I'm not saying you're incorrect... but rather that this doesn't match my experience outside the Pandora community.


Comparing IRC to forums is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both means of communication, but massively different in application and response.

Also, you need to realize that you are comparing a linux support community with a homebrew handheld community. For the most part, people are only going to be posting in Linux support forums if they have done their research about Linux and are just lost because they're new. But a homebrew handheld community will get the game enthusiasts who don't do research along with the type of people that are interested in Open source. Have you ever looked at the standard gaming communities out there?

-God Ginrai

 

[Eniko]

But to be honest I think most people just accept the internet as being a bit rude and ignore it, when I occasionally login to an online game there's normally a stream abuse coming from someone or other on the server about camping/laming/being lucky/being a <insert offensive word>/etc. and for the most part people just ignore it!

There's plenty of people, myself included, that actively avoid such places because they find that kind of thing unpleasant. Wouldn't want that happening here, surely?

 

[NearTao]

PS: The sooner Craig comes clean about the imminent meteor risk, the better

Don't forget the dinosaur risk either...

 

[VRAndy]

QUOTE
This is why the number one "unreasonable" request: a video of a working, assembled Pandora, is likely the most effective request to fulfill to quell the fear. It means that it is possible to manufacture a functional Pandora, and the only real issues to remain are various delays instead of show stoppers.

You've put "unreasonable" in scare-quotes there, but it really is unreasonable to request photographs of something you know for a fact does not exist.
There are videos of prototype equipment, but until there's a keyboard prototype, they're not going to be able to assemble anything that looks finished.

I'm pretty sure you understand this, but the way you put "unreasonable" in quotes like that made it look like it was intended as sarcasm or something.

 

[Klepto]

I'd like to think I'm not a troll, though I'm certain a good portion of users think I am.

Oops, I didn't mean to infer that you were trolling

 

[Esn]

this is one of the main reasons why I just quit posting for the last 2 years.

I haven't been posting too much for the last while, either, because there's been nothing to talk about.

I think that when things eventually take off and there's some actual news to talk about, you'll see a lot of people come back who have been keeping away lately. Maybe then the tone of the forums will change to a better one.

 

[mali]

But to be honest I think most people just accept the internet as being a bit rude and ignore it, when I occasionally login to an online game there's normally a stream abuse coming from someone or other on the server about camping/laming/being lucky/being a <insert offensive word>/etc. and for the most part people just ignore it!

There's plenty of people, myself included, that actively avoid such places because they find that kind of thing unpleasant. Wouldn't want that happening here, surely?

+1

 

[TrevorBradley]

Have you ever looked at the standard gaming communities out there?

*shudder*.. point taken!

This is insightful too, and to be honest, I hadn't given this much thought. This is *not* your typical open source community.

I would very much love to break out of the cycle of: ask legitimate question, stupid flame responses, official response comes, thread is closed without opportunity for follow up (or even thank yous! There are times where Chip has answered a question and closed the thread without an opportunity to thank him... that's got to make the job of information source 10 times less gratifying...)

 

[Esn]

But to be honest I think most people just accept the internet as being a bit rude and ignore it, when I occasionally login to an online game there's normally a stream abuse coming from someone or other on the server about camping/laming/being lucky/being a <insert offensive word>/etc. and for the most part people just ignore it!

There's plenty of people, myself included, that actively avoid such places because they find that kind of thing unpleasant. Wouldn't want that happening here, surely?

+1

+2

 

[VRAndy]

I would very much love to break out of the cycle of: ask legitimate question, stupid flame responses, official response comes, thread is closed without opportunity for follow up

You missed out the step where the same legitimate question is asked several times over the course of the day, long before it scrolls off the front page.

Frankly, I don't understand how that could be taken as anything other than rude.

Like someone else said above, you've just got to accept a certain amount of rudeness on the Internet, but still.

 

[sterling976]

There are times where Chip has answered a question and closed the thread without an opportunity to thank him... that's got to make the job of information source 10 times less gratifying...)

I've only seen him do that when there's a lot of flaming back and forth in the thread, or it's a question that's already been answered or rehashed ad nauseum. I'd like to think Chip knows he's appreciated; there are plenty of other threads in which it's been expressed.

If not.. thanks, Chip!


EDIT: Trimmed part of Trevor's quote that wasn't relevant to my reply.

 

[VRAndy]

If not.. thanks, Chip!
Agreed.

 

[TrevorBradley]

You've put "unreasonable" in scare-quotes there, but it really is unreasonable to request photographs of something you know for a fact does not exist.
There are videos of prototype equipment, but until there's a keyboard prototype, they're not going to be able to assemble anything that looks finished.

I'm pretty sure you understand this, but the way you put "unreasonable" in quotes like that made it look like it was intended as sarcasm or something.



Point taken, and I'm busted. I do not believe the request is unreasonable and I am frustrated that people believe it to be so. However please understand that I don't mean what you think I mean. There's going to be no vid of an assembled Pandora today, or possibly for some time. I mean "request" (and this time the quotes are just quotes!) in the sense that it's something I'd like eventually... Think of it as putting a request in a queue.

Similarly I'd love to see some stats on the manufacturing status: Parts ordered, received, etc, but I am in no way expecting these today or even this week. But I would love for that request to go into the queue somewhere.

There has been significant angst over this definition of "request"/"demand" in the forums. Where some people surely meant "Can you get around to this eventually?" others interpreted it as "I need this information today or my heart will stop!" (and certainly some are guilty of an unreasonable demand for information). In return replies to users accused of "demanding" information have been interpreted back as "You're never getting this information, so be glad you're in the queue, shut up and stop asking questions". Neither interpretation is fair and things have spiraled badly out of control.