A physical Dummy, Power Usage and MIPI

[WizardStan]

LiPolymer usually just grows and leaks at some time (but you should've thrown it away long before it does that).

Lithium can violently react with oxygen regardless of its form. LiPo are considered safer because they're malleable, they stretch and puff as they slowly go bad as a kind of warning, but if the packaging ever becomes ruptured they will explode in fire. Li-ion have hard cases, so instead of swelling a little bit they just split and explode.Lipo can be just as dangerous as li-ion, they just give a bit more warning when they become dangerous.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, yes, that's true. But as you should expose the battery as soon as it starts growing, it should be pretty safe.

 

[WizardStan]

Yes, absolutely agree on that.

Unfortunately sometimes you can't do that quite yet. (*eyes cell phone battery cautiously*)

 

[Grench]

It's all about the trade-offs.

Two full size USB 2.0 host ports? Kind of cool. I'd rather have a combo USB2/eSATA and a microUSB host, but I'm likely in the minority.

I see one shoulder button per side - assuming the L2 and R2 are on the other side of the board?

Speaking of the other side - that would be the keyboard layout which would be critical for case design. Is that the same as it was in your earlier prototype?

Headphone/headset/mic port - any news on possibly having a GPIO controlled switch to swap the mic/ground lines so that any headset will work with it without adapters?

I'm a bit concerned with having only 1 method of charging - and having that consume the OTG port. The scenarios:

Needing to use the USB3.0 OTG port as host while charging.

As a device to a low amp (USB1) host - not getting enough current to maintain charge.

I'd love to see a picture of the other side of that board. Thanks for the preview!

 

[klapse]

If the Pyra battery is larger/different than the Pandora battery, it would be cool if the battery itself is the back cover. That should save some space, for more battery and less plastic.

That's something the battery company suggested as well, we'll see whether we can do that.

This can be difficult since small bumps on the case (battery case) can jostle the battery connectors. The fit must be tight to prevent this. I made a triple-size custom n900 battery where this was a problem.

 

[Natsu]

How is a couple of screws a not-easy accessway? Small fiddly plastic catches (as on some mobile phones) is not-easy. A couple of screws is the absolutely simplest and easiest way to get good pressure where needed, and to remove, and replace whenever the battery needs to be taken out for any reason.

To switch batteries. How can you argue against something as a clip which only takes smidget of focus to pop off


vs going out of my way to find and/or carry a screwdriver just to open a back cover?

I would like both: latches and a screw. If you don't like the screw and really feel the need to remove the battery on a regular basis then just remove the screw and toss it in the trash. I don't like the "just screw" solution because I've had screw holes strip on other devices and there's no backup to keep the battery in place then.

Sure, just have them in a small bag and out of the device from the get go.


Although this leaves unnecessary holes.

That's what I planned, but that makes production a LOT more expensive (very complicated tools needed for the plastic production).


No worries, the plastic they'll use is a lot more robust

Well, we don't want that. :lol:

That's something the battery company suggested as well, we'll see whether we can do that.

Idk that it was even a option to not have it fit Pandora.


Would that mean every spare battery will have this back? Not sure if I like this idea.

I mean I can see the whole bottom coming off using clips on the side, but I don't see why it has to be connected to the back cover.

 

[fritata]

Why cant you put the extended micro USB 3.0 port on it for faster charging?

 

[alucart1984]

Spoiler

Another week has passed, so it's time to let you know what we've been doing.

1. Physical Dummy

Right now, we got two main priorities: Getting the case designers a PCB with the most important details so they can work on the case and getting the LCD to work.

We received three of those dummy PCBs on Wednesday and populated the parts that are important most important for the basic case design - this includes all big parts like the 3G Antenna, the volume wheel, the SIM Card Slot as well as the ports, nubs and shoulder buttons.

Two of these non-functional PCBs are shipping to the designer in Greece next week.

dummy.jpg

As you can see, on the back there are two big USB 2.0 Host Ports as well as a Micro USB 3.0 OTG Port (which will also be used for charging the unit).

Then you can see a Micro HDMI Port and the headphones / headset port.

We originally had a USB / eSATA-Combi port planned, but we couldn't find a one that suits our needs (Surface mount).

Also, size would be an issue - we could either fit normal size USB ports or one USB / eSATA-Combi port.

It's probably more useful to have two USB Ports (to connect a mouse and keyboard, for example, or two game pads, etc.) than an eSATA Port - especially as most externa harddisks probably use USB.

2. Qualcomm and AllWinner A80

As you know from the last blog post, Qualcomm and AllWinner might also be candidates to sell the SoC to us.

I've explained what we need, etc. to both our contact at Qualcomm and to AllWinner.

Qualcomm didn't reply yet (I'll let you know once they do!) and AllWinner replied... but the mail sounded to me like they don't know yet when the A80 or any devboards will be available and whether they can sell it in small quantities...

I'll try to find out more, but right now, it still seems like the OMAP5 is our best guess.

3. OMAP5 speed and power usage

Which brings us to our next topic - the OMAP5 speed and power usage.

Well, that's what my focus was last week.

We can't do full power comsumption tests yet, as the power saving features are not yet fully optimized and included in the kernel (basically the same as the Pandora was before notaz implemented them (SuperZaxxon with Kernel 3.2)), but I could do some tests and make assumptions.

Based on my measurements, the OMAP5 uses less power than the OMAP3 for the same processing power.

So basically, you could limit the Pyra to be the speed of the Pandora and the battery should last longer (this could be some low-power mode).

Of course, with full processing power, the power consumption is higher than what the Pandora can do.

Running with full speed and full CPU usage, the battery would probably last 2 - 3 hours.

Don't worry though - in normal use you normally won't have 100% CPU usage all the time with both cores, so in reality, the battery time will quite a bit longer, probably 6 - 7 hours for more-demanding emulators.

Still, we are thinking of increasing the battery size a bit to get more capacity into it - without increasing the case size too much, of course.

With full speed, the Pyra should be about 5 - 6 times as fast as the Pandora (depending on the application), which is pretty neat.

Enough for a snappy and responsive desktop, fast webbrowsing, graphics editing or PSP, DreamCast and N64-Emulation.

4. MIPI - getting there!

Nikolaus was working hard to get the LCD to work - with a some huge steps forward.

The basic communication with the LCD is now working fine (so MIPI is working).

He can read out and set registers - but we didn't get the picture yet onto the LCD.

We're still missing the initialization routine, but hopefully we'll get them from LG this week.

If not, we have some backup plans (like working together with a member of the MIPI Alliance or - in worst case - become one ourselves. This will give us all documentation and tools we need).

Well, at least we can now talk to the display and get a reaction

The hardware part is working fine, I'm sure we can get the rest to work as well.

5. What's next

With the Dummy PCBs, the case designers can now on the case design.

Next week, I'll check all the logo suggestions you made on the boards, so that we'll finally have a logo.

I'll also have a meeting with a company in Munich that produces keymats, so we won't have to go to China to produce those as well.

I'm also following the boards for any questions that occur and discussions that happen.

I've seen a discussion about the price - well, it seems that a no one really knows how a price is calculated.

Since stuff like that is also part of the Pyra experience (follow us and learn how everything works), I'll explain everything about that in one of the next blog posts. It's certainly pretty interesting.

That's it for today. As usual, if you have any questions, feel free to ask them here

What price point are we looking at seeing when the Pyra launches?  Like what price are you aiming for?

 

[moxie]

To switch batteries. How can you argue against something as a clip which only takes smidget of focus to pop off vs going out of my way to find and/or carry a screwdriver just to open a back cover?

 

Perhaps exactly because it only takes a smidget (?) of un-focus for it to pop off? And because a clip has no graduality, meaning if the tolerances are just a little bit off, we get something that is either impossible to close or where the contact is intermittent (Particularly with a battery chemistry that does cause the battery to change shape)? How often do you change batteries, anyway - I still haven't done that on my pandora after several years of use.

 

[Klumpen]

I haven't even taken my spare battery with me last weekend, because I was away for only about 2,5 days.

One charge was enough and I had a charger with me anyway which I didn't need at all.

How often do you guys change batteries in real life?

 

[comradekingu]

Never. I charge once i remember it. I perfer to buy aftermarket batteries so i only have to charge every week.

 

[Natsu]

Perhaps exactly because it only takes a smidget (?) of un-focus for it to pop off? And because a clip has no graduality, meaning if the tolerances are just a little bit off, we get something that is either impossible to close or where the contact is intermittent (Particularly with a battery chemistry that does cause the battery to change shape)? How often do you change batteries, anyway - I still haven't done that on my pandora after several years of use.

As in tiny. Are you saying it take only a little for it to pop off? Nonsense. I never had a problem with my phone with a clip, a chip that is smaller. The battery is snug in place while the back comes off easily. If it's so misshapen that it affects the cover then it seem like you need to get it replace anyway. The frequency of how much I do it, is kind of besides the point.

 

[moxie]

Well, the frequency with which people has had problems with the battery contacts is a point, and since this hasn't been exactly uncommon, it is an issue that needs to be adressed. And yes, we hope that the plastic of the case will be better this time, and tolerances tighter, and so on and so forth, but still - Something needs to be done about the fact that some peoples Pandoras tend to reset if they are moved when used, or needs to be padded with random bits of paper in precise positions. A way to avoid that in the Pyra would be to have screw fastenings that can ensure the possibility to get a movement-free and tightenable fastening between battery and case.

In that situation, I do think that the frequency of batttery changing (or terminal licking, or whatever) does matter. How many times a day do you have to want to change the battery in order for it to be a greater nuisance than the fiddling with paper and non-moving of unit?

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, the frequency with which people has had problems with the battery contacts is a point, and since this hasn't been exactly uncommon, it is an issue that needs to be adressed. And yes, we hope that the plastic of the case will be better this time, and tolerances tighter, and so on and so forth, but still - Something needs to be done about the fact that some peoples Pandoras tend to reset if they are moved when used, or needs to be padded with random bits of paper in precise positions. A way to avoid that in the Pyra would be to have screw fastenings that can ensure the possibility to get a movement-free and tightenable fastening between battery and case.

... that's why they're being padded since the Rebirth Pandoras here in Germany have been produced.

I've rarely read of such battery issues since then.

 

[Natsu]

^That answered my question. :lol:

Why can phone companies keep the battery in place without screws and without the user fiddling with paper and dealing with resets, but with the Pyra we can't?

 

[Neelix]

Every phone I ever encountered used a battery in a hard case, which was not prone to change its shape.

- Neelix

 

[WizardStan]

Why can phone companies keep the battery in place without screws and without the user fiddling with paper and dealing with resets, but with the Pyra we can't?

Stop being overdramatic. ED already said that they fixed the battery size/reset issue on the Pandora with some built in padding, and also explained that the Pyra will have tighter tolerance on the connection. Those have absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.As to the rest of the question, "Why can phone companies keep the battery in place without screws but with the Pyra we can't?" who says that we can't? Point to one person who said that such a thing was impossible. It's an aesthetic and point of failure thing, not a logistic problem. My phone's battery is a little swollen and no longer latches, so I'm literally holding it in place with duct tape until a replacement arrives (hopefully this week or early next): if it used a screw instead of a latch I wouldn't have this problem, I'd just screw it in as far as possible even if it didn't close all the way.

That's no argument that it should use a screw though, that's just an example of why someone would want a screw latch available.

Actually the number of times I've dropped my phone and had the latch pop open and battery tumble out is another reason someone would want a screw latch. Clumsy people need more safety.

I said it before, I'll say it again, do both: if you don't want the screw and quick access to the battery is important then simply remove the screw and throw it in the trash.

 

[SNESFAN]

More time/money on engineering their case design

 

[moxie]

Well, with my pandora, I have rather the opposite problem - I cannot close the battery hatch properly without it bulging a bit.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, with my pandora, I have rather the opposite problem - I cannot close the battery hatch properly without it bulging a bit.

Then the battery is already swollen a bit.