MIPI, Keymats, Batteries and Memory

TeDaDeS

Very Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
888
Location
The Netherlands
Website
Visit site
6000mAh is sweet. Great idea if it would fit into the pandora.
2GB of RAM is a lot, but if it is available people will find uses that will say it isn't enough.
 

matzesu

Hardcore Member
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
9,197
Age
35
Location
Germany,, Saarland, at home
Wonder, how long i can play Tetris on my Pyra whit this much Akkupower: 6000 mah is a lot

1,5 Times more Fun..

Reminds me on the Duracell Rabitts..

I often play whit dimmed Backlight, as i not often in the Sun, so it will left much longer..

Whit your plan, a Main PCB and a tiny SOC PCB to make, this sound interesting..

One reason for your MIPI Issues could be, Dragonbox isnt inportant enought for the Chipp Manufaktorers to support you corektly..
 

SNESFAN

Retro game fanatic
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
3,409
Age
37
Location
Fort Knox, KY. USA
All the points sound really good, 6000mah is much better sounding than 4200mah should get a respectable amount of use out of it. I think if you go with a processor with big.little that should be fine for maintaining "pandora level" of battery life estimates. If you go with the omap it might be better to look at something at least 7000mah or larger. That's just a guess obviously, but having an open mind in finding a balance in this area rather than forcing forward compatibility is what's more important.

I agree 2GB seems practical, more would be future proofing, but I'm sure that may not be the most cost, space, and power effective way of getting it. Maybe in the future a solution similar to the way the Pandora was upgraded with double the ram can be gotten. It will be more than enough for today's OS's and should serve people well for a couple years anyway.

The ability to have a removable internal as an option in addition to a non removable fast internal sounds like a solid plan for future proofing the thing that would get outdated probably first, hope it actually happens. It being accessible without disassembly would be preferred but if the pyra is as simple to open as the Pandora is then that shouldn't be that big of an issue. Sim card replacement seems like the more possible situation where you would want to have convenient removable and if that is accessible I can see putting the internal in the same area as an obvious thing.

If all goes as planned you'll have my money and I'm sure many others and a pretty swell predecessor.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Exophase

Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
10,308
Age
36
Location
Cleveland OH
The higher capacity battery sounds like an easy decision to me, especially if it's no more than a few EUR extra.
 

hns

Very Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
462
Location
Oberhaching
I still don't get this "MIPI" thing. If it is so complicated to get an LCD working on an SoC, how the hell do all the gazillion Mobile Devices out there solve these issues? They pop out so fast, I can't imagine they have to deal alot with such issues at all. :-||" Does really every single one uses custom, "dirty" hacks just to get every LCD/SoC combo working? And if the OMAP5 has a (general?) bug that prevents it from communicating properly with an LCD, how do other OMAP5 mobile devices (if tere are any) get an image on screen? If they have solutions, it could help to just ask them for the workaround.
The problem is that "MIPI" is not a standard plug where both ends are certified. Yes, they are - but not completely. Only on the physical layers. It is like that you can plug in any USB device into a USB socket. But it does not work on your machine, because you don't find a compatible driver. But it may work on another one. So you try to write your own driver. Or you have a web browser and can't open some page (isn't http and html standardized?).Why do the gazillions devices appear to have less problems?

1. they don't use the latest and greatest display like we try

2. they have more people on their payroll to run around the world to knock at doors (so they may get answers faster than we do)

3. they are members of the MIPI organization (I think that costs >25000 USD membership fee per year) and therefore have a more direct contact

4. they have much more expensive equipment for analyzing circuits (e.g. a 16 channnel 5 GHz logic analyser or a special MIPI-DSI tester like one built by Agilent)

5. they buy reference designs where someone has done exactly the same challenging and time-consuming task we are doing (and reporting to the public) - but some months ago and behind the curtain - so it appears that it was easy for them

So they don't talk as much about issues, and may be faster because they spend more money on it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fusion_power

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
13,046
Location
germany
Website
Visit site
I still don't get this "MIPI" thing. If it is so complicated to get an LCD working on an SoC, how the hell do all the gazillion Mobile Devices out there solve these issues? They pop out so fast, I can't imagine they have to deal alot with such issues at all. :-||" Does really every single one uses custom, "dirty" hacks just to get every LCD/SoC combo working? And if the OMAP5 has a (general?) bug that prevents it from communicating properly with an LCD, how do other OMAP5 mobile devices (if tere are any) get an image on screen? If they have solutions, it could help to just ask them for the workaround.
The problem is that "MIPI" is not a standard plug where both ends are certified. Yes, they are - but not completely. Only on the physical layers. It is like that you can plug in any USB device into a USB socket. But it does not work on your machine, because you don't find a compatible driver. But it may work on another one. So you try to write your own driver. Or you have a web browser and can't open some page (isn't http and html standardized?).Why do the gazillions devices appear to have less problems?

1. they don't use the latest and greatest display like we try

2. they have more people on their payroll to run around the world to knock at doors (so they may get answers faster than we do)

3. they are members of the MIPI organization (I think that costs >25000 USD membership fee per year) and therefore have a more direct contact

4. they have much more expensive equipment for analyzing circuits (e.g. a 16 channnel 5 GHz logic analyser or a special MIPI-DSI tester like one built by Agilent)

5. they buy reference designs where someone has done exactly the same challenging and time-consuming task we are doing (and reporting to the public) - but some months ago and behind the curtain - so it appears that it was easy for them

So they don't talk as much about issues, and may be faster because they spend more money on it.
This all somehow makes no sense (due Pandora development, MIPI was afaik not even mentioned once), at least not if they actualy WANT a easy to use standard at all. Sounds like this is not the case. Sad, that the display manufactureres don't deliver their hardware with the matching drivers, I guess this would make stuff a little bit easier then. ^^"So good luck with the new LCD, I'm sure you will find a solution. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Exophase

Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
10,308
Age
36
Location
Cleveland OH
Making the electrical protocol a standard is helpful and it solves a lot of problems, but it doesn't mean that all of the devices will have the same data protocol. Things would still be even worse if there was a custom electrical protocol used here.

The LCD manufacturer should have good documentation and even reference code for interfacing with it, any lack of this is a big failure on their part. But maybe they have all that stuff more readily for the big payers who buy from them directly instead of through distributors..
 

fusion_power

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
13,046
Location
germany
Website
Visit site
But maybe they have all that stuff more readily for the big payers who buy from them directly instead of through distributors..
I hope not, this would be unfair.  Customer is customer so everyone that buys their LCDs should be able to use it without much trouble. Otherwise it would not make sense to sell their stuff to low quantities that may get the hardware but not the software.

My Fairness-senses are tingeling...
 

God Ginrai

Godmaster
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
5,414
Website
Visit site
  • Good to hear you're making progress with MIPI. Sad that it's taking so long. :\
  • How much of the keymat will be transparent?
  • I'd love the microSSD with accompanying microSD option. However, if we can't get that, I'd prefer the microSD only option.
  • Glad to hear you've found a solution for increasing the battery life. :)
-God Ginrai
 

Hồng Thất Công

Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
4,384
Location
Cái Bang
But maybe they have all that stuff more readily for the big payers who buy from them directly instead of through distributors..
I hope not, this would be unfair.  Customer is customer so everyone that buys their LCDs should be able to use it without much trouble. Otherwise it would not make sense to sell their stuff to low quantities that may get the hardware but not the software.

My Fairness-senses are tingeling...
Since when we are treated fairly?  Ed had to pay premium for most of Pandora's parts since we are small fish.  So Pyra will be similar...
 

Kiga

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
640
In my opinion 6000mah is a bad decision

Because with 4200mah you would have a lighter thinner and cheaper Pyra, and you could carry a 4200 thin and light battery which would make 8400mah.

Whereas with 6000 mah you have a heavy, thick, most expensive Pya, and if you want to have more battery, you have to carry a cumbersome 6000 mah battery or a 4200mah with a big frame. Both alternative are too much for pockets.

So 6000mah don't worth the trouble, 4200mah would be better or the best choice would be ≧8000mah.
 

Natsu

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
1,250
How do you know it's going to be a big case? If you decide to pick the Pandora battery, it would make sense to have smaller cases.

Besides, he already said, it shouldn't add that much size.
 

Exophase

Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
10,308
Age
36
Location
Cleveland OH
I've never seen it. Where?
ED says he thinks it can be done without increasing the volume of the unit at all.

EvilDragon said:
On the Pyra, this shouldn't be a big problem, and I think it can be done without increasing the size of the unit (needs a bit more puzzling).
Presumably that means keeping it close to the same thickness as the Pandora, which most people are okay with.
 

Kiga

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
640
How do you know it's going to be a big case? If you decide to pick the Pandora battery, it would make sense to have smaller cases.

Besides, he already said, it shouldn't add that much size.
Okay, I didn't understand at all. I meant if 4200 is chosen, there will be a thinner case than 6000.

6000 would be bigger  and if you want to add battery life you should carry another 6000 battery or 4200+frame which are too much for pockets.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Natsu

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
1,250
Okay, I didn't understand at all. I meant if 4200 is chosen, there will be a thinner case than 6000.

6000 would be bigger and if you want to add battery life you should carry another 6000 battery or 4200+frame which are too much for pockets.
Yes, 4200 would make a thinner case. Yes, 6000 would be thicker than 4200.6000 as the default battery, doesn't mean you can't oped out for 4200+smaller frame/case/cover.

Edit: Under the assumption that the whole bottom comes off.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

thatgui

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,048
ED says he thinks it can be done without increasing the volume of the unit at all.
ED an Gta04 are the ones who know, but I have a hard time believing that they can fit all the stuff in, they currently planning to, without making the Pyra bigger than the Pandora.
I'm also not happy about the bigger battery if it increases the size and the weight of the unit. The Pandora is already only semi pockatable and with the Pyra beeing bigger, we are (I'm exaggerating a bit) "trending" towards netbook usecases (the Pyra won't have the size of a netbook, but if it exceeds a certain size there isn't really a difference anymore, imho).
 
Top