MIPI woes, good design ideas and headaches

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Ziz

    Ziz Advanced Member

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    That is developer stuff. Developer don't care so much about the ergonomics as users do. I don't care if I have to define the buttons this way:


    #define BUTTON_1 12
    #define BUTTON_2 14
    #define BUTTON_3 16
    #define BUTTON_4 13
    #define BUTTON_5 15
    #define BUTTON_6 17
    However the pyra will probably use some keyboard keys again. So (1) will be page down, (2) page up, etc, so this doesn't matter at all.In my opinion IF we choose a ARM SOC, we should try to use a similar layout as for the pandora.
     
  2. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    Why is it obvious? All the keys are buttons.  You make the assumption that all end users will make the same assumption you do.  That's asking for trouble.

    - Neelix
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  3. Ziz

    Ziz Advanced Member

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    But the same problem you would have with letters, too. ;) With the difference, that "a" (WASD) or "x" and "y" are really used sometimes, but I never heard of a PC game (and most of the time PC game ports have this issue), where you with with 1 or jump with 2...
     
  4. Rockthesmurf

    Rockthesmurf Advanced Member

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    Best layout suggestion so far. :)
     
  5. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    It doesn't need to be. You realize that changing it to Greek letters doesn't make it backwards compatible with the Pandora either... Also, our buttons aren't going to be gigantic, there would be no room to put readable Latin letters inside of the Greek letters. Besides, even if the buttons are labeled differently, the buttons will likely be in the same position with respect to each other as far as the keys that they represent are concerned, so I don't see any dire consequences that would come from different labelling. (PageDown will still be below PageUp, Home will still be to the left of End)

    -God Ginrai
     
  6. Saber

    Saber Advanced Member

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    Sure, if you want...
    image.jpg
     
  7. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

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    There is room to put one readable Latin letter inside one big Greek letter, just like there is room for labels of keyboard keys for the key itself and the Fn key. On the Pandora there is a key labeled "Shift / Caps Lock" and it is readable. So I don't think it's a big problem to do that.


    If we use Π/A  Ω/B  χ  Δ/Y for the main buttons and Γ (Gamma, looks a bit like an "r") and ν (Nu, looks like a "v") for the extra buttons, the buttons can spell the words Pyra, Pandora and DragonBox (if you're fine with a mix of Greek and Latin letters that is), are completely backwards compatible with Pandora, can be described using plain ASCII (A B X Y r v), can be described using non-ambiguous symbols (Π Ω χ Δ Γ ν) that are present in nearly all fonts, and the Π Ω Δ X layout is pretty good for PS1 and PSP emulation without actually using the ◯ △ X shapes.
     
  8. zonova

    zonova Member

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    I like this one too
     
  9. Ziz

    Ziz Advanced Member

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    How about keeping the old system and adding two buttons (maybe even with another background color) with a complete different approach on labeling?

    Like:

    Code:
        (1)
      (Y) (2)
    (A) (
      (X)
    
    or
    Code:
        (+)
      (Y) (-)
    (A) (
      (X)
    
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  10. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    I'll contribute to the quote pyramid to show my support.

    -God Ginrai
     
  11. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

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    Yes, that makes sense. If + and - map to insert and delete it even makes kind of sense semantically too. Still, it's confusing to have different keys with the same symbol on them. People may expect + to produce an actual "+" symbol when they're typing, and it's confusing to have to refer to the + button and the + key, and what does Shift+A or Ctrl-B mean?

    I still prefer Π Ω Δ X  :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
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  12. Ziz

    Ziz Advanced Member

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    (+) and (-) could in fact be the + and - keys. They are used quite often, especially in browsers for zooming in/out. They need some key-allocations anyway if we keep the old system. ;)
     
  13. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    Used quite often? I would hardly think so. In coding, maybe, but outside of that not much at all.

    Also, Insert and delete would be much more useful keys to have on the buttons

    -God Ginrai
     
  14. Ziz

    Ziz Advanced Member

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    I don't code on my pandora very often.

    But I use the terminal, most parameters need a -.

    And as said most browsers use + and -, too. :)
     
  15. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    I don't think I've pressed Insert on any computer keyboard for over 15 years now. What does it do?


    As for delete, I've migrated to using backspace even on PCs except inside vi, where x works admirably.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  16. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    Really!? most programs it toggles from inserting characters into a line when typing(displacing the characters) to just writing over it. It's handy if doing edits where you don't have to hit the delete or backspace button a lot of times to edit a line.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  17. _jr_

    _jr_ Advanced Member

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    But this toggling requires quite a lot of brain support I don't have :) To me it is easier if it is explicit like in vi with 'R' vs. 'i'. Real overwriting is essential for tabulated data (or ASCII art), though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  18. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    That perfectly fit Pyra. Because it is math/geek, and Pyra is a greek name. It is ogirinal but seems natural not freak/wtf like cards signs for example.

    And people who don't know greek name still can say square/triangle/circle/X

    That's the best choice, No Doubt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  19. milkshake

    milkshake Advanced Member

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    Lol stop with the Greek letters already
     
  20. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

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    [​IMG]
     

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