A physical Dummy, Power Usage and MIPI

[WizardStan]

You can convert the digital audio from HDMI to line level quite easily

Yes, but regardless of how easy it is it's still an extra step required, therefore a feature loss.Not exactly cheap either, I have one of those converters explicitly for connecting my BluRay to my aging surround sound system and it cost $20.

 

[moxie]

Why not? That is the obvious solution?

Why would you give up easy access to the battery and possibly the Micro SD card?

Whut? 

The bizarre - Why would I need easy access to the battery, of all things? It's not like I take it out every evening to stroke its soft, bulging curves along my inner thigh, or lick the terminals whilst gargling diet coke. Really. Honestly. That wasn't me at all. I wasn't even there, and besides, nobody saw me. And it was dark. 

And the other bizarre: How is a couple of screws a not-easy accessway? Small fiddly plastic catches (as on some mobile phones) is not-easy. Having to juggle little paper bits to maintain pressure against the terminals is not-easy. Having to tear off and replace electric tape because the (bigger, finger-adapted) plastic catches has broken off is not-easy. A couple of screws is the absolutely simplest and easiest way to get good pressure where needed, and to remove, and replace whenever the battery needs to be taken out for any reason.

 

[WizardStan]

I would like both: latches and a screw. If you don't like the screw and really feel the need to remove the battery on a regular basis then just remove the screw and toss it in the trash. I don't like the "just screw" solution because I've had screw holes strip on other devices and there's no backup to keep the battery in place then.

 

[moxie]

Well, I'd agree with that

 

[_wb_]

What about a sideways sliding battery cover? That seems less likely to break than those plastic latches of the Pandora battery cover.

If the Pyra battery is larger/different than the Pandora battery, it would be cool if the battery itself is the back cover. That should save some space, for more battery and less plastic.

 

[Trip]

You expect technology that has only been invented in the last 5 years to be in consumer products now?

No, I don't, and that's the point: lithium polymer has peaked and really hasn't improved in over 5 years. This contradicts what you said, that battery technology has improved.

Prove that it hasn't been improved. Unless you have contacts in all the companies that work with this technology and know exactly where the technology is heading in the next 5 years this is a completely bullsh*t statement.

I never said that did I?

You didn't use those exact words but you may as well have. You stated that battery tech has improved, that there's something that we could use to get improved performance without increasing the size of the battery, and then used graphene as an example.

I used this example because it was the first one to come to mind and please don't imply that I said something that I didn't


There are lots of different types of batteries available at the moment and just because lithium polymer was the best to use on the Pandora back then it doesn't mean that it will be the best for the Pyra. If the battery is going to change anyway then they might as well start fresh and see if there are any better new alternatives.


That was the point that I was making.

What you can do is contact the university and see how far along the study is.

We could do that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable asking ED to be a guinea pig for experimental and unproven battery technology even if he didn't have anything to lose. There's a lot of questions involved in new tech, not the least of which is how well supported it will be, especially when it comes to batteries and how each advancement has come with different was of charging.
Alternately we could accept what we've actually got access to and that there just hasn't been any improvement in battery technology worth getting hung up about.

Well that's ok then as yours is the only voice that matters on this forum <_<


If technology has been tested correctly and it's just about ready to go to market anyway, then the benefits would far out way the risk. Wasn't the processor in the Pandora implemented for that exact reason? From what I can remember the processor wasn't fully released when they decided to go for it and the Pandora was a kind of testbed for the new chip.


Don't down play how big an impact faster charging would have on something like the Pandora. Higher capacity might be better all told but a big improvement in charging speed would be a massive bonus. Most people would only need one battery if the Pyra could be charged in a short enough space of time as most people don't travel long distances and stay away from power sockets or other computers for that long anyway.

 

[leathco]

Liking the way everything is looking so far.  I'm really looking forward to the SIM card access and the ability to access 3G internet on the go.  Not as fast as 4G obviously but 3G is an established standard that works everywhere.  Also live having 2 onboard USB ports, looks like a great feature.

Looking forward to the case design. 

 

[WizardStan]

Prove that it hasn't been improved.

Doesn't work like that, I can't prove a negative. You made the claim that it has improved substantially, it is on your shoulders to prove it. All you need is just one commercially viable battery that can provide more than 5000mAH in the same volume as the Pandora battery to prove your point.

There are lots of different types of batteries available

Such as? Something that can be purchased right now? Even if you have to go to a manufacturer for it to be made custom? Not something that has been demonstrated in a lab, no matter how viable it may have proven, it needs to be something that a manufacturer can actually produce.

Don't down play how big an impact faster charging would have on something like the Pandora

I'm not, I'm downplaying the availability of such radical changes in technology. If you think batteries can be obtained with more energy density than the Pandora's battery then find one. The Pandora's battery has an energy density of about 0.7MJ/kg. This is the wikipedia entry on energy density: Note that 0.7 is pretty close to the maximum on the scale, 0.875, a difference of about 25%. There's no where for lithium polymer to go, and there's not yet anything else available. The closest thing I'm aware of is the lithium-air which Tesla is currently working on, but those still aren't stable enough and may never be for small applications.

Well that's ok then as yours is the only voice that matters on this forum

Don't be like that mate, I'm trying to be reasonable about this. All I'm saying is not to get your hopes up about vastly improved battery efficiency because the technology really hasn't improved as much as you think. It's all fine and good to gush about how great the next stuff is going to be but that doesn't mean you should start acting as if it's available right now.

 

[EvilDragon]

What about a sideways sliding battery cover? That seems less likely to break than those plastic latches of the Pandora battery cover.

That's what I planned, but that makes production a LOT more expensive (very complicated tools needed for the plastic production).

No worries, the plastic they'll use is a lot more robust

If the Pyra battery is larger/different than the Pandora battery, it would be cool if the battery itself is the back cover. That should save some space, for more battery and less plastic.

That's something the battery company suggested as well, we'll see whether we can do that.

 

[N3Cr0]

Why not make it simply a bay, like the HDD bay in a Thinkpad?
IIRC there was even a case design whith that idea in this board.
 
EDIT:
Here.

 

[wej]

It's not really that easy. A lot of high quality setups expect line level outputs. Connecting a Pyra to these systems will require an amplifier. Not a major problem but still a feature that is lost.

That's not true. The major difference between a headphone output and a line level output is the headphone output's capability to drive low-impedance loads.

The actual output voltage on headphone outputs is usually at least as high as that of a line output. The only possible disadvantages of headphone output vs. line level output are a possibly higher noise floor because of the headphone output's additional amplifier and that you have to adjust the volume to the right level.

Wikipedia suggests impedance mismatches between headphone out and line in wouldn't be significant, on their line level page.

You don't even do impedance matching in line-level connections. Impedance matching is done, when you want to transfer the maximum possible amout of power, which is completely irrelevant here. Actually, in line-level connections you usually almost mismatch output and input as much as possible: You want the lowest possible output impedance and a very high input impedance of the following stage. As the headphone output has an even lower output impedance than the line level output, this is not an issue at all.

 

[b_o_b]

Not sure if this is mentioned somewhere - not following all the Pyra topics - are there already plans for a docking station? Is the current design making that possible or easy to create afterwards? I remember it was mentioned before and ED was interested.

 

[WizardStan]

That's not true. The major difference between a headphone output and a line level output is the headphone output's capability to drive low-impedance loads. The actual output voltage on headphone outputs is usually at least as high as that of a line output. The only possible disadvantages of headphone output vs. line level output are a possibly higher noise floor because of the headphone output's additional amplifier and that you have to adjust the volume to the right level.

Hmmm, you speak with quite a bit of authority on that. All of my knowledge is second and third hand, but I take it you've actually done this? Plugged a headphone output into a system that expected line level? If so then I'll gladly withdraw my complaint and change my thinking.

 

[wej]

Hmmm, you speak with quite a bit of authority on that. All of my knowledge is second and third hand, but I take it you've actually done this? Plugged a headphone output into a system that expected line level? If so then I'll gladly withdraw my complaint and change my thinking.

I did, but what's more important, I know what voltage levels are usually used in each configuration and they are really not much different. Voltage is what matters here, not power transfer. Also, the actual voltages used by line level components differ pretty much between different devices. Those differences might even be larger than those of the line output voltage vs. headphone output voltage on the same device. Usually CD players (and similar devices) output the highest line level voltages, while other devices output lower levels. None of that usually is a problem, other than that you might need to adjust the volume a bit, depending on the device connected.

 

[moxie]

That's not true. The major difference between a headphone output and a line level output is the headphone output's capability to drive low-impedance loads. The actual output voltage on headphone outputs is usually at least as high as that of a line output. The only possible disadvantages of headphone output vs. line level output are a possibly higher noise floor because of the headphone output's additional amplifier and that you have to adjust the volume to the right level.

Hmmm, you speak with quite a bit of authority on that. All of my knowledge is second and third hand, but I take it you've actually done this? Plugged a headphone output into a system that expected line level? If so then I'll gladly withdraw my complaint and change my thinking.

Wej already did, but I'll add myself to the list of people who did that and lived to tell the tale. Works very well.

 

[WizardStan]

Well then, everything I've been told about line level vs headphone level seems to have been a lie. Or at least I've grossly misunderstood them. Apologies.

 

[EvilDragon]

Why not make it simply a bay, like the HDD bay in a Thinkpad?

We're using LiPolymer batteries which will grow over time (especially shortly before they die after a few years).

If it's too thick you won't be able to pull it out and replace it with a new one anymore.

 

[Klumpen]

I'd want to go away from LiPolymer anyway, but that seems to be out of the question for financial reasons.

LiPolymer was the exploding type, right?

 

[EvilDragon]

I'd want to go away from LiPolymer anyway, but that seems to be out of the question for financial reasons.

Um... and what would you like?

LiPolymer is what every modern device normally uses, as it gives most capacity for size, has no memory effect, etc.

LiPolymer was the exploding type, right?

No, that's LiIon.

LiPolymer usually just grows and leaks at some time (but you should've thrown it away long before it does that).

EDIT: A nice information for you to read about batteries:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/whats_the_best_battery

Choose the one you like

 

[WizardStan]

LiPolymer was the exploding type, right?

Yes. NiMH and NiCd batteries are non-flammable, but they're steps backwards, having a much lower energy density. There's currently nowhere to go, unfortunately.