MIPI woes, good design ideas and headaches

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    Greek letters are the Future,

    romanian letters and square/triangle/circle/X are the Past,

    others options are Off-topic.

    :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  2. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    No it doesn't. Just because the name was derived from Pyrrha doesn't mean that everything has to or should be derived from Greek. It's a german console intended to be used by people around the globe.

    Greek is as unnatural to most people as Card suits would be for gaming controls. The difference is that Playing Card suits are more widely known.

    Except it's not a Square.

    Not in the least.

    EDIT:

    It's called the Latin alphabet. Romania didn't create any specific alphabet of its own, and the first writings in their language are actually written in Cyrillic.

    -God Ginrai
     
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  3. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    Yes, you would have the same issue with letters. That's why I believe we need to label the buttons with something other than a Latin letter or a number.   Incidentally, I have played games which use number keys. We even have one in the repo that comes readily to mind, it's called Galactic Artifact.  

    - Neelix
     
  4. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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             The name wasn't derived from Pyrrha, the actual Greek transcription for Πύρρα is Pyra. Greek are legitimate to chose the best transcription, so Pyra is actually named after a a greek goddess which is Pyra. Even if it don't mean it's a greek console or anything it is an argument to say that the name is greek.

            And you avoided the main argument which is greek symbols are used in mathematics and Pyra is made by a lot of mathematics fan/geek for geek. So it makes sense to use greek symbols.

    You can see greeks letters in various thing even if people don't know their name (example:Greek letter organization) or math, and they looks like triangle/square.. and letters, so they aren't unatural at all.

    Whereas cards signs is just known for...Cards. Or maybe joker and clown. It have a strong meaning, everyone who will see it will say "why? is it about clown or what?"

    Who care? it's just for telling your friend where to press... and nothing looks more like a square than  Π or Π.

    I am convinced that no choice can be better than Π Ω Δ X / Π Ω Δ χ   if we want to innovate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  5. Granitehead

    Granitehead Advanced Member

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    I like Greek letters very much, but in that font "Π Ω Δ X" are all ugly except maybe the Omega.

    But for the buttons we wouldn't need to use any existing font, so that's okay.

    We could even change them a little - for example the upper case Pi could be modified to look even more like a square.
     
  6. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    I prefer a more greek font like this: Δ Π Ω χ

    A lot of people will not notice that it's greeks letters immediatly, it would be a geek Easter Egg and a fun part of Pyra identity.
     
  7. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    Yes it was. EvilDragon said so himself that he shortened "Pyrrha" to "Pyra" because it would be easier to spell. Second of all, I'd like to see a citation for your claim that the actual Greek transcription is "Pyra", because everything on the wikipedia page for Pyrrha seems to suggest otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrha In fact, if you look up Pyra on wikipedia, there isn't even a way to get to Pyrrha.

     I didn't avoid it. I thought it was ridiculous that you thought that Greek's place in mathematics gives it a connection to Pyra. The connection to Pyra's name was a more convincing argument. By that logic, any electronic device should have greek lettering on it, since electronics are made by people who are well-versed in mathematics.

    If people don't know their name, they can't communicate about them, which is an important thing when talking about gaming controls. Second of all, the only reason GLO's use Greek letters is due to classical education that emphasized the Greek language during the time the first fraternity was started and because the founder, John Heath, was the best Greek scholar in college. Not to mention, the use of Greek Letters for these organizations is almost entirely a North American practice.

     If a joker had a strong meaning, then people wouldn't be asking "is it about a clown", but "does this play card games?". You have disproven your own point right there.

    Plus, the suits are tied to gaming in a number of ways. Aside from the obvious connection to card games, the 4 suits are used to classify players of Online games in the Bartle Test

     
     Of course it matters: Your point falls apart because of it. Most people would not call a shape that did not have 4 sides and 4 corners a square.

    I am convinced you don't know what innovation is. No labelling we choose for this device will be considered an innovation. All we're doing is changing button labels. If you insist to call something like that new, then suits and dice designs would also be considered innovating.

    -God Ginrai
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  8. hipnotoad

    hipnotoad Member

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    I wish this whole process was being recorded as a documentary because there seems to be enough drama and clashing of ideals that would surely provide entertainment to some :D
     
  9. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    Well, the "Our New Machine" topic is still around on GP32X for everyone to see the same happen throughout the Pandora development, so you can bet that people will likely be able to see all of this years later as well. ;)

    -God Ginrai
     
  10. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Heh, bizarre. I always hack up a quick perl or python script if I need to do a lot of that. I've honestly never used it since switching to PCs, but perhaps I'm unusual in that.
     
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  11. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    Maybe, my english is bad, by innovation I wanted to say anything out of (letters+ square triangle...)

    In fact Pyra started to have a lot of vote because I pointed out that "Pyrrha" don't mean nothing and we can chose anything and Pyra is the best because greeks themselves chose it, before it Pyrrha/Pyra not even a quarter of Miriad and the others' vote.

    I don't care about english or whatever official version, what's is important is logic. Pandora/Pyra is a project led by logic, that's why I believe not only me but we should follow the logic version.

     Heart,spades etc isolated.... of course they have different meaning... they even be invented before cards. But when they are all together, all I can see is Cards/joker/clown.

    Most people, but not people who plays console like...playstation and want to find words to communicate with theirs Pyra.

    Once again you're out of context.

    It's not about usfulness, it's about appearance. Pyra's identity. Consistency will give it a strong identity and a strong identy will make it easily touch people and last.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2014
  12. Rockthesmurf

    Rockthesmurf Advanced Member

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    As it derives from the Pandora, I think all the buttons should be pictures of different pans. It makes complete sense. The classic Sonic cheat would be UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, SAUCEPAN + WOK, or the other Sonic cheat would be UP, SKILLET, DOWN, SKILLET, LEFT, SKILLET, RIGHT, SKILLET, SAUCEPAN + WOK. I just wish I had the time to make some pictures so I could fully illustrate this.
     
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  13. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    Pyra already has its identity. Unnecessary, less recognizable symbols doesn't add to that.
     
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  14. moz

    moz load *,8,1

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    What about Roman Numerals? 

    Code:
       IV
    III   I
       II
    
     
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  15. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    If you choose any other symbols than Latin alphabet and square/triangle and number. Pyra will be "that console with joker symbols" or anything.

    Greek alphabet have to do with Pyra identity because of greek alphabet=math=geek .

    So by adding another features which is in resonance with his identity (geek) it will make his identity stronger. On the contrary  if you chose joker symbols, it will make it weaker because it will be also be "that console with joker symbols".

    That's why I said:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  16. fusion_power

    fusion_power Advanced Member

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    I'm sure ED will choose or already has choosen for standard alphabet letters so this here seems again an endless discussion that just spins around itself.  :rolleyes:   I have more and more the slightly feeling that democracy just does not work in Internet forums... :ph34r:
     
  17. kasp

    kasp Very Active Member

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    I reckon it should be 9 buttons in this layout.

    [​IMG]

    Then when you get the shits you can shout out "But I fucking hit Marcia"
     
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  18. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Well, you can enter insert mode in vim with it :B
     
  19. TeDaDeS

    TeDaDeS Very Active Member

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    I think ED should do what he wants. But he still reads most of the crap we write and that might just help him make a final decision about some concepts.

    So we shouldn't stop, we might just conclude something that is really nice and is useful. ED can decide what he wants to do with it, if a large enough group nags about the buttons the pyra2 might just get face-buttons or something like that (if that would be a great idea, it's funny but not sure if anyone really want those on the pyra).

    Press any face to continue.
     
  20. bzar

    bzar A Commando

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    Or ignore mode in vimperator!
     
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