MIPI woes, good design ideas and headaches

[Kiga]

Lol stop with the Greek letters already

Greek letters are the Future,

romanian letters and square/triangle/circle/X are the Past,

others options are Off-topic.

 

[God Ginrai]

That perfectly fit Pyra. Because it is math/geek, and Pyra is a greek name.

No it doesn't. Just because the name was derived from Pyrrha doesn't mean that everything has to or should be derived from Greek. It's a german console intended to be used by people around the globe.

It is ogirinal but seems natural not freak/wtf like cards signs for example.

Greek is as unnatural to most people as Card suits would be for gaming controls. The difference is that Playing Card suits are more widely known.

And people who don't know greek name still can say square/triangle/circle/X

Except it's not a Square.

That's the best choice, No Doubt.

Not in the least.

EDIT:

romanian letters and square/triangle/circle/X are the Past,

It's called the Latin alphabet. Romania didn't create any specific alphabet of its own, and the first writings in their language are actually written in Cyrillic.

-God Ginrai

 

[Neelix]

But the same problem you would have with letters, too. With the difference, that "a" (WASD) or "x" and "y" are really used sometimes, but I never heard of a PC game (and most of the time PC game ports have this issue), where you with with 1 or jump with 2...

Yes, you would have the same issue with letters. That's why I believe we need to label the buttons with something other than a Latin letter or a number.   Incidentally, I have played games which use number keys. We even have one in the repo that comes readily to mind, it's called Galactic Artifact.  

- Neelix

 

[Kiga]

That perfectly fit Pyra. Because it is math/geek, and Pyra is a greek name.

No it doesn't. Just because the name was derived from Pyrrha doesn't mean that everything has to or should be derived from Greek. It's a german console intended to be used by people around the globe.

         The name wasn't derived from Pyrrha, the actual Greek transcription for Πύρρα is Pyra. Greek are legitimate to chose the best transcription, so Pyra is actually named after a a greek goddess which is Pyra. Even if it don't mean it's a greek console or anything it is an argument to say that the name is greek.

        And you avoided the main argument which is greek symbols are used in mathematics and Pyra is made by a lot of mathematics fan/geek for geek. So it makes sense to use greek symbols.

 

It is ogirinal but seems natural not freak/wtf like cards signs for example.

Greek is as unnatural to most people as Card suits would be for gaming controls. The difference is that Playing Card suits are more widely known.

You can see greeks letters in various thing even if people don't know their name (example:Greek letter organization) or math, and they looks like triangle/square.. and letters, so they aren't unatural at all.

Whereas cards signs is just known for...Cards. Or maybe joker and clown. It have a strong meaning, everyone who will see it will say "why? is it about clown or what?"

And people who don't know greek name still can say square/triangle/circle/X

Except it's not a Square.

Who care? it's just for telling your friend where to press... and nothing looks more like a square than  Π or Π.

That's the best choice, No Doubt.

Not in the least.

I am convinced that no choice can be better than Π Ω Δ X / Π Ω Δ χ   if we want to innovate.

 

[Granitehead]

I like Greek letters very much, but in that font "Π Ω Δ X" are all ugly except maybe the Omega.

But for the buttons we wouldn't need to use any existing font, so that's okay.

We could even change them a little - for example the upper case Pi could be modified to look even more like a square.

 

[Kiga]

I prefer a more greek font like this: Δ Π Ω χ

A lot of people will not notice that it's greeks letters immediatly, it would be a geek Easter Egg and a fun part of Pyra identity.

 

[God Ginrai]

The name wasn't derived from Pyrrha, the actual Greek transcription for Πύρρα is Pyra. Greek are legitimate to chose the best transcription, so Pyra is actually named after a a greek goddess which is Pyra. Even if it don't mean it's a greek console or anything it is an argument to say that the name is greek.

Yes it was. EvilDragon said so himself that he shortened "Pyrrha" to "Pyra" because it would be easier to spell. Second of all, I'd like to see a citation for your claim that the actual Greek transcription is "Pyra", because everything on the wikipedia page for Pyrrha seems to suggest otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrha In fact, if you look up Pyra on wikipedia, there isn't even a way to get to Pyrrha.

And you avoided the main argument which is greek symbols are used in mathematics and Pyra is made by a lot of mathematics fan/geek for geek. So it makes sense to use greek symbols.

 I didn't avoid it. I thought it was ridiculous that you thought that Greek's place in mathematics gives it a connection to Pyra. The connection to Pyra's name was a more convincing argument. By that logic, any electronic device should have greek lettering on it, since electronics are made by people who are well-versed in mathematics.

You can see greeks letters in various thing even if people don't know their name (example:Greek letter organization) or math, and they looks like triangle/square.. and letters, so they aren't unatural at all.

If people don't know their name, they can't communicate about them, which is an important thing when talking about gaming controls. Second of all, the only reason GLO's use Greek letters is due to classical education that emphasized the Greek language during the time the first fraternity was started and because the founder, John Heath, was the best Greek scholar in college. Not to mention, the use of Greek Letters for these organizations is almost entirely a North American practice.

Whereas cards signs is just known for...Cards. Or maybe joker and clown. It have a strong meaning, everyone who will see it will say "why? is it about clown or what?"

 If a joker had a strong meaning, then people wouldn't be asking "is it about a clown", but "does this play card games?". You have disproven your own point right there.

Plus, the suits are tied to gaming in a number of ways. Aside from the obvious connection to card games, the 4 suits are used to classify players of Online games in the Bartle Test

[Achievers,] Also known as "Diamonds," these are players who prefer to gain "points," levels, equipment and other concrete measurements of succeeding in a game. They will go to great lengths to achieve rewards that confer them little or no gameplay benefit simply for the prestige of having it.

Explorers, dubbed "Spades" for their tendency to dig around, are players who prefer discovering areas, creating maps and learning about hidden places. They often feel restricted when a game expects them to move on within a certain time, as that does not allow them to look around at their own pace. They find great joy in discovering an unknown glitch or a hidden easter egg.

There are a multitude of gamers who choose to play games for the social aspect, rather than the actual game itself. These players are known as Socializers or "Hearts." They gain the most enjoyment from a game by interacting with other players, and on some occasions, computer-controlled characters with personality. The game is merely a tool they use to meet others in-game or outside of it.

"Clubs" is a very accurate moniker for what the Killer likes to do. They thrive on competition with other players, and prefer fighting them to scripted computer-controlled opponents.

 

Who care? it's just for telling your friend where to press... and nothing looks more like a square than  Π or Π.

 Of course it matters: Your point falls apart because of it. Most people would not call a shape that did not have 4 sides and 4 corners a square.

That's the best choice, No Doubt.

Not in the least.

I am convinced that no choice can be better than Π Ω Δ X if we want to innovate.

I am convinced you don't know what innovation is. No labelling we choose for this device will be considered an innovation. All we're doing is changing button labels. If you insist to call something like that new, then suits and dice designs would also be considered innovating.

-God Ginrai

 

[hipnotoad]

I wish this whole process was being recorded as a documentary because there seems to be enough drama and clashing of ideals that would surely provide entertainment to some

 

[God Ginrai]

I wish this whole process was being recorded as a documentary because there seems to be enough drama and clashing of ideals that would surely provide entertainment to some

Well, the "Our New Machine" topic is still around on GP32X for everyone to see the same happen throughout the Pandora development, so you can bet that people will likely be able to see all of this years later as well.

-God Ginrai

 

[levi]

I don't think I've pressed Insert on any computer keyboard for over 15 years now. What does it do?

Really!? most programs it toggles from inserting characters into a line when typing(displacing the characters) to just writing over it. It's handy if doing edits where you don't have to hit the delete or backspace button a lot of times to edit a line.

Heh, bizarre. I always hack up a quick perl or python script if I need to do a lot of that. I've honestly never used it since switching to PCs, but perhaps I'm unusual in that.

 

[Kiga]

I am convinced that no choice can be better than Π Ω Δ X if we want to innovate.

I am convinced you don't know what innovation is. No labelling we choose for this device will be considered an innovation. All we're doing is changing button labels. If you insist to call something like that new, then suits and dice designs would also be considered innovating.

Maybe, my english is bad, by innovation I wanted to say anything out of (letters+ square triangle...)

The name wasn't derived from Pyrrha, the actual Greek transcription for Πύρρα is Pyra. Greek are legitimate to chose the best transcription, so Pyra is actually named after a a greek goddess which is Pyra. Even if it don't mean it's a greek console or anything it is an argument to say that the name is greek.

Yes it was. EvilDragon said so himself that he shortened "Pyrrha" to "Pyra" because it would be easier to spell. Second of all, I'd like to see a citation for your claim that the actual Greek transcription is "Pyra", because everything on the wikipedia page for Pyrrha seems to suggest otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrha In fact, if you look up Pyra on wikipedia, there isn't even a way to get to Pyrrha.

In fact Pyra started to have a lot of vote because I pointed out that "Pyrrha" don't mean nothing and we can chose anything and Pyra is the best because greeks themselves chose it, before it Pyrrha/Pyra not even a quarter of Miriad and the others' vote.

I don't care about english or whatever official version, what's is important is logic. Pandora/Pyra is a project led by logic, that's why I believe not only me but we should follow the logic version.

[Achievers,] Also known as "Diamonds," these are players who prefer to gain "points," levels, equipment and other concrete measurements of succeeding in a game. They will go to great lengths to achieve rewards that confer them little or no gameplay benefit simply for the prestige of having it.

Explorers, dubbed "Spades" for their tendency to dig around, are players who prefer discovering areas, creating maps and learning about hidden places. They often feel restricted when a game expects them to move on within a certain time, as that does not allow them to look around at their own pace. They find great joy in discovering an unknown glitch or a hidden easter egg.

There are a multitude of gamers who choose to play games for the social aspect, rather than the actual game itself. These players are known as Socializers or "Hearts." They gain the most enjoyment from a game by interacting with other players, and on some occasions, computer-controlled characters with personality. The game is merely a tool they use to meet others in-game or outside of it.

"Clubs" is a very accurate moniker for what the Killer likes to do. They thrive on competition with other players, and prefer fighting them to scripted computer-controlled opponents.

 Heart,spades etc isolated.... of course they have different meaning... they even be invented before cards. But when they are all together, all I can see is Cards/joker/clown.

 

Who care? it's just for telling your friend where to press... and nothing looks more like a square than  Π or Π.

 
Of course it matters: Your point falls apart because of it. Most people would not call a shape that did not have 4 sides and 4 corners a square.

Most people, but not people who plays console like...playstation and want to find words to communicate with theirs Pyra.

And you avoided the main argument which is greek symbols are used in mathematics and Pyra is made by a lot of mathematics fan/geek for geek. So it makes sense to use greek symbols.

 
I didn't avoid it. I thought it was ridiculous that you thought that Greek's place in mathematics gives it a connection to Pyra. The connection to Pyra's name was a more convincing argument. By that logic, any electronic device should have greek lettering on it, since electronics are made by people who are well-versed in mathematics.

Once again you're out of context.

It's not about usfulness, it's about appearance. Pyra's identity. Consistency will give it a strong identity and a strong identy will make it easily touch people and last.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

As it derives from the Pandora, I think all the buttons should be pictures of different pans. It makes complete sense. The classic Sonic cheat would be UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, SAUCEPAN + WOK, or the other Sonic cheat would be UP, SKILLET, DOWN, SKILLET, LEFT, SKILLET, RIGHT, SKILLET, SAUCEPAN + WOK. I just wish I had the time to make some pictures so I could fully illustrate this.

 

[Natsu]

Pyra already has its identity. Unnecessary, less recognizable symbols doesn't add to that.

 

[moz]

What about Roman Numerals? 

   IV
III   I
   II

 

[Kiga]

If you choose any other symbols than Latin alphabet and square/triangle and number. Pyra will be "that console with joker symbols" or anything.

Greek alphabet have to do with Pyra identity because of greek alphabet=math=geek .

So by adding another features which is in resonance with his identity (geek) it will make his identity stronger. On the contrary  if you chose joker symbols, it will make it weaker because it will be also be "that console with joker symbols".

That's why I said:

Greek letters are the Future,

romanian letters and square/triangle/circle/X are the Past,

others options are Off-topic.

 

[fusion_power]

I'm sure ED will choose or already has choosen for standard alphabet letters so this here seems again an endless discussion that just spins around itself.  :rolleyes:   I have more and more the slightly feeling that democracy just does not work in Internet forums... h34r:

 

[kasp]

I reckon it should be 9 buttons in this layout.

Then when you get the shits you can shout out "But I fucking hit Marcia"

 

[slaeshjag]

I don't think I've pressed Insert on any computer keyboard for over 15 years now. What does it do?

Well, you can enter insert mode in vim with it :B

 

[TeDaDeS]

I'm sure ED will choose or already has choosen for standard alphabet letters so this here seems again an endless discussion that just spins around itself.  :rolleyes:   I have more and more the slightly feeling that democracy just does not work in Internet forums... h34r:

I think ED should do what he wants. But he still reads most of the crap we write and that might just help him make a final decision about some concepts.

So we shouldn't stop, we might just conclude something that is really nice and is useful. ED can decide what he wants to do with it, if a large enough group nags about the buttons the pyra2 might just get face-buttons or something like that (if that would be a great idea, it's funny but not sure if anyone really want those on the pyra).

I reckon it should be 9 buttons in this layout.

Then when you get the shits you can shout out "But I fucking hit Marcia"

Press any face to continue.

 

[bzar]

I don't think I've pressed Insert on any computer keyboard for over 15 years now. What does it do?

Well, you can enter insert mode in vim with it :B

Or ignore mode in vimperator!