2Nd Review Case Should Arrive Soon.

[moxie]

I think the point that Chip and others are trying to get across is: Nagging doesn't help any. Not at all. There are situations where nagging helps - If the project was stalled because Craig was busy hanging upside down in a tree making his new video instead of going inside and complete the paperwork to start mass production, say, to make up a totally realistic example - nagging would be helpful in the way that it might reach Craig and convince him to adjust his priorities a bit. However, this moaning here really does not reach anybody in position to do anything about it. It does not accomplish anything positive. Everyone who sees this already does everything in their power to get the thing out the door as quickly as possible. More nagging does nothing except increase frustration - Frustration in forum members from reading the same crap once more, but more importantly frustration for Craig, ED and the others. If anything, this kind of nagging is what drives overoptimistic estimates, in that the only thing that Craig can do at this point is to give an estimate to get some respite from the constant nag-choir.

I see people doing the "Well, just report the facts" routine. Problem is, if OP do that, we get the "OP just sit silent and never publish any updates - Come on, a small weekly update isn't too much to ask" refrain, and when they do that they get "Come on, your updates contain nothing of interest - What is really happening?". And when they try that, they inevitably go into projections and estimations that will, 2 weeks later, be repeated as absolute truths that they will be bound by whenever the projections fail. And then we come back to "Come on, be professional - just report the secure facts".

It's a no-win game. It has been playing for a while, sure, but it still leads nowhere except to the loony bin for our OP team.

 

[may88]

Now I've got this far I think I deserve a badge or at least a stiff drink.

I think if you're not happy then this is the place to bitch. If your criticism is just then fine it opens debate else you can expect a placed on a skewer and overcooked on every fanboy/girl's barbecue. Personally I'm rather chilled today and out of charcoal.

We're close. Very close. There is not much left to stop us having our Pandora. I suspect MW will go thought 2 or 3 more iterations of case improvements. Plenty of time to sort the silk-screening with or without a camera.

 

[Asmo]

it seems to me that at the very start there were no promises about a delivery date [...] I choose to not complain about the wait, as it was clear to me from the outset that there were no promises about a time frame

But there was. 'End of October' for the lucky ones, up to or right after Christmas for the less fortunate.
You can take your pick from the timeframes that followed.

This is not a criticism, it's what's on record.

 

[MiniSinisterMinister]

@Everyone

Yes, you have found me out. I haven't been a long time follower of the project. I have only discovered the Pandora late 2008 when German mainstream magazines started to print news and photos. I placed my pre-order just shortly before the deadline. So I am around place 3500 in the queue (I bought a used GP2X F200 in the meantime). Yes you are right. People like me usually do not have as much patience as you do. However, as OP want to sell at least 15.000 units next year, the majority of people in their target audience will probably be more like me than like you. Think about it! Maybe you think I am stupid because I want to pay a surcharge for getting an inferior case. But time really matters to me. A famous economist once said "in the long run, we are all dead". You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about proving that your little team can keep up with industry leaders. But that has never been what fascinates ME about the Pandora. If I want a something with tip-top case, I am going to buy Apple. For me the Pandora is an underground handheld that has every right to be "gritty" - it is part of the appeal. The whole design is geared towards functionality rather than form. I never intend to present it to my friends like "look, this is better than yours from a big company", I will rather say "look this is totally different, niche and maybe you will also find that it is interesting". I do not believe that many people will look at the Pandora and say this is better than "major company". They will just say, this is different and I like niche things. In my opinion, any dent or discoloration won't hurt sales as much as these indefinete delays which put so many people off. They probably think this project sucks because they will never release it anyway. A small run could go along way.


@Chip

I accpet that it is not feasable to do 200 using the same method as they used for the test cases. So am I right that there will also be only a very small number of devolopers getting an MK0 Pandora?

 

[rmm2131]

Troll much?

that really made me laugh out loud, but this thread has been a trollfest already.I just accidentaly contributed :lol:

Thanks, I meant it in humor so i'm glad it was received as such.

This too for all those demanding action or revolt in this thread.

 

[Phawx]

@spikeyxx

You'll get no respect and like it!

@Moxie

I don't know if you've read what spikeyxx wrote, but I think you missed his point. Read all of the nagging and it has a root cause. Luckily for us, Gruso & Co. have done far more than OP or Chip has done to help with communications. Mostly the info we get is from OP, but Pandora Press has done an excellent job in organizing it.

The hilarious part is we all look to the unofficial site for the current best news instead of the official site. So when people come in asking questions they always devolve into people such as Chip or yourself telling people to cumulatively "stop whining". It's condescending. Admittedly, you don't do it as bad as Chip does. And ultimately we are so close now that it really doesn't matter. But, from the get-go, the one major problem with this entire project was communication.

Please don't take this as an attack on you, because I do understand your point of view. Technically I am in the same boat as you. I've already SEEN a working Pandora, so any anxiety I had is completely gone. The OP team should take the "nagging" as a critique on what they need to work on.

Please remember, my views on this are strongly backed by capital being funded by the community. If you take money from someone, they deserve to know what you are doing with it. However, if OP was completely privately funded they could have said absolutely nothing and been in the right.

Again, remember, the nagging *usually* has a root cause. And that has to do with communication.

This is obviously only my opinion and *today* with how far we are with the Pandora, it matters much less so then a year ago.

 

[TheRain]

Maybe you think I am stupid because I want to pay a surcharge for getting an inferior case.

I fully agree with that- the current state of the machine would be fine with me. In fact, I'd have been fine with getting the device with parts of the case missing and glued on buttons or something It's the functionality and the hacking fun that matters most to me.

However, I understand that I may be in the minority and OP maybe doesn't have the time to deal with handling my/our special case.

 

[Jaguar]

TheRain , you are most defintely not in the minroity. there is more than yopu here that would be fine with a case that has a scratch or two, plus wouldnt even mind only one hinge working. we are just frustrated, but for me, i dont see the 4000 units ever coming out, but at this point it doesnt matter anymore.

 

[droneb]

and also people just should stop saying "you dont like it ask for a refund", really!, pretty much of the people would have if they werent aware
that this could lead onto a bank run, just take into account that even large Co. would be struck by a bank run, everyone has patience just not in the same amount.

if a certain ammount of people went for this option i bet nearly only 10% of the people would get the refund and now that were so close.
just look at all the poor people stuck by the bankrupcy of air comet customers and workers.

by the other way some keep saying naggin is a waste of time and bla bla bla. hey if they dont complain here where can they relieve the pressure?.

i know some of the pre-orderers are nearly on the verge since they get every day mocks, deadlines, and other nasty stuff.
but hey they just keep fending their position about the panda and it will arrive SOON. i bet teens and kids are really getting some
big pressure by parents and husbands by wifes (luckily im neither).

its childish but if they got the energy and the time, just let it be.

trolls need some caves in order to not to destroy the city. and all the citys have ugly crime so we just make a border line and put em all together.

 

[spikeyxx]

@Phawx Where's my money man!

 

[Sphinxter]

Mr. Chip, why dont you just back of. nothing anyonesays here, except for you looks stupid or as you put it childish. poeple are complaining because they are tiredof waiting,. this thread was going just find, no name calling or anything till you get on here and have to feed your ego. you are the so called childish and immature one.Its to bad that you ruined the thread for me, as it was going along great, but now Im through with it, as you seem to think we are all kids and dont know better. The thread is all yours now.

Well just don't hate him cause he's right, and in this case he's very right.

 

[craigix]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

 

[transmition]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

Have a poll and find out which one will make people the happiest. That way you minimize your losses.

 

[Poem58]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

Let's hope they are fixed!

I think the problem lies in the communication of the people on the boards as well. I have asked and seen asked the question about the Pandora carry case (that I have not ordered, and this is just an example) but has never been mentioned aside from "it shouldn't be a problem" or whatever. This leaves people with a sense of doubt. It would be better to just say "we are going to worry about those last" or "we'll ship them later if need be" or whatever. Otherwise it gives the impression that they haven't been handled in any way and may lead to some delay.

I had asked some questions and instead of any official answer, the forum members posted suppositions and complaints about my wording etc.
I would never be angry if I got my Pandora with some flaw because I wanted it that way, nor would I be angry waiting for it to be done right.

However, on this forum you see guesses, opinions and statements sometimes as if they were facts. It leads to confusion, and when your patience is being worn thin but your heart wants to wait it out, your mind begins to doubt based on every little thing you cannot get an answer to. There has been times I have seen told as fact, info that in no way was ever officially stated. I was personally told that the TV-OUT cable was S-Video only and if I just searched I could have found that out myself, that was wrong. I have seen it said that the units would ship from the Texas factory to US residents was fact, even Jacqueline said she didn't know. The people in this forum can be wonderful and I'm glad to have talked to many of them, but some will at times quote possibilities and maybes as absolutes.

Another example. You stated in a different thread that you would rather have cases without silk screening if it meant they may cause more delay. Well you have that power, you could ask for a vote and decide not to wait if it's going to be a problem, or just say you will silkscreen it no matter how long it takes. But when you make a comment like that and people agree they would do without as well or disagree and want them silkscreened and nothing is officially said about what would be done or whether it's really an option we could actually have, it can be frustrating as then people start to think about more delays. This drives people nuts I think.

For instance, you have said if the next run of cases gets green lighted we could all have our Pandora's by the end of January. However, I have seen tons of posts since saying that there is no way that will happen. It would easily be March. This is the kind of stuff that makes what you do communicate seem confusing to people or at the very least, frustrating. Not that that is your fault. But maybe the suggestions of posting new info in the official blog posts instead of the board might help?
You guys have given us loads of information, but sometimes it comes out cryptic, or as it was said vague. I guess people just would rather have things said straight out, good or bad.
If I were you I guess I would feel that the plain truth might make some people back out, then again it may be what keeps people in as well. So I fully understand why things are said they way they are at times as it helps to keep people from quoting your guesstimate as fact, the problem is that when you give a vague comment, people tend to try to solve the riddle if you will and that somehow becomes fact, then when it's not or another comment would conflict with the made up fact, it would appear you weren't being truthful when in fact you never really said it either way.

I hope that makes sense and please realize this isn't criticism, just the way it appears to be from this side of the keyboard.

Once the Pandora ships, and this is all behind us, people will be singing the team's praises and this will no longer matter to anyone. Oh what days those will be!!

 

[jonlad1]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

I'm sure you've learnt not to listen to the minority of moaning buggers on the boards by now.

Just do what you've gotta do.

So we'll find out about the latest cases by Friday?

 

[Phawx]

@Craig

Don't worry about it man. We've all seen how awesome the Final Prototypes are, they've passed CE certification. You guys are in the final (final) stretch. As far as I am aware the last hurdle are the small cases issues. So it's not a big deal at all, this topic was just about the confusion on the official page.

 

[Awakening]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

Have a poll and find out which one will make people the happiest. That way you minimize your losses.

If the Pandora is not perfect when reviewed then they will lose on future sales instead. If the first batch is reviewed as perfect then more are likely to preorder from the second.

The longer development takes the better the software will be when we get our own Pandoras anyway.

 

[WolfSpider]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

When do you think Mweston will receive the new cases?

 

[transmition]

The last cases we got (last week) were almost perfect, the list of issues is small - and might be fixed already.

It's a catch22 for us, we know if we go with cases with any faults we will get it in the neck come delivery, and if we delay to make them perfect we get it for delaying.

Have a poll and find out which one will make people the happiest. That way you minimize your losses.

If the Pandora is not perfect when reviewed then they will lose on future sales instead. If the first batch is reviewed as perfect then more are likely to preorder from the second.

The longer development takes the better the software will be when we get our own Pandoras anyway.

People are going to order the device based on how well it works, and if they can get it, not how pretty it is. Remember, this is not the average consumer, this is the linux consumer. Functionality > Aesthetic Quality. If it is a bit bumpy, I don't think people are going to care too much if it means that things don't get delayed for another 3 months.

 

[Tom`]

People are going to order the device based on how well it works, and if they can get it, not how pretty it is. Remember, this is not the average consumer, this is the linux consumer. Functionality > Aesthetic Quality. If it is a bit bumpy, I don't think people are going to care too much if it means that things don't get delayed for another 3 months.

This may be true of many of us, but it's entirely possible that there's a good bit of selection bias operating here - people with this point of view being more willing to be vocal (or, in fact, present) on the boards.

Another aspect that hasn't really been mentioned, but it's equally important: Every Pandora that gets shipped is a potential advertisement. If someone who hasn't heard of the Pandora (or has heard, but only remembers the initial renders that were picked up by the press) sees a finished Pandora, they're going to have an opinion on it. If Craig wants to maximize sales he would want any cases that customers are going to see to be as close to perfect as possible. Of course, this is even more true for reviewers.