plopperz
Huh?
Not that I think that Q3 looks that bad, but I'm afriad this would end up looking like/being just another Quake mod. We should see if we can find another Open Source 3D engine. Or we could decide right now to stick with 2D.
Zombie Apocalypse
- Thread starter Dutch_Cap
- Start date
BenTolputt
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OK, there is STILL argument on what the game should look like & play like. I have whipped up a quick document on the style & gameplay elements that could (& in my mind, should) be used for this game.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df4bgxg4_8d8n3qgg7
Given the engines that can be used, the first steps would be to get some MD3 models of zombies and/or the characters desired for the game.
Anyone that wants to work on the game described, let me know. I am not going to debate 2D vs 3D or "collect the survivor" game styles. If other people want to create a different game - go for it. While I would prefer to work on something that has generated the interest "Zombie Apocalypse" has, I am not interested in constantly arguing in order to get something done.
For the record, there is a more detailed document in development, but as it contains story spoilers - it is not being put up for everyone to see (just developers)
--BenT
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df4bgxg4_8d8n3qgg7
Given the engines that can be used, the first steps would be to get some MD3 models of zombies and/or the characters desired for the game.
Anyone that wants to work on the game described, let me know. I am not going to debate 2D vs 3D or "collect the survivor" game styles. If other people want to create a different game - go for it. While I would prefer to work on something that has generated the interest "Zombie Apocalypse" has, I am not interested in constantly arguing in order to get something done.
For the record, there is a more detailed document in development, but as it contains story spoilers - it is not being put up for everyone to see (just developers)
--BenT
JakeK
Active Member
I have two questions, do you actually aim the weapons that the character uses? Because it sounds like you don't with the whole DPAD function, which I think is a horrible idea. A crosshair could easily be implemented with that perspective. Pressing a button for a specific attack IMO ruins the genre. A certain element of surprise and being scared is lost. With your system it would just be "Oh a zombie *presses up on DPAD*" problem solved. With a crosshair the zombie genre comes more alive. You have tried to mix a bit of FPS with RPG and well....
Second, how do you switch between adventure and action mode? I don't see a need to swap, it sounds uneccessary when there would be absolutely no difference if you merged both of the modes together.
Second, how do you switch between adventure and action mode? I don't see a need to swap, it sounds uneccessary when there would be absolutely no difference if you merged both of the modes together.
BenTolputt
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Aiming & Combat Style
The player character is not a commando, ex-mercenary, or policeman. He is somewhat familiar with weapons (as in knows how to check the safety & reload) but hasn't spent inordinate amounts of time at the shooting range or "in the killing fields". As such, the accuracy of their shot (and hence the damage it can do) is controlled by the type of attack selected (fast vs accurate/strong), the distance to the target, and size of the target.
The player "aims" by pointing their character in the direction of the target and pressing the shoot/attack button. This has been successfully done in many horror games (Silent Hill series, Resident Evil series, Clocktower series, and so on), so I do not see why it shouldn't work on this one.
An alternative to the expressly selected mode of fast vs strong attacks is the ability to hold the attack button down for a length of time to indicate the "strength/accuracy" of the attack (longer meaning more time aiming or putting strength behind a swing). This is something I have also seen done well in horror games.
As you probably guess, I disagree with your assessment that it ruins the genre given I have seen a variety of games use this method to good effect.
Action vs Adventure Mode
This is to simulate adrenaline and/or "panic" in the player character. When a "normal" or average person is attacked or about to attack someone, they are not calm enough to search through drawers, browse through the contents of a computer, or call people on the mobile phone - they are packing it! With the exception of scrabbling for keys and the like - this is a pretty standard staple of modern horror (of which the zombie genre is a part).
The switch between the two will occur automatically in the case zombies are encountered (i.e. the character gets a shot of adrenaline/panic from the encounter) and can be switched to if the player thinks they might encounter zombies in the next room (i.e. the character pulls out a weapon and starts walking/running with the expectation they will be shooting something soon).
The reason for this dual mode is that it allows for the interface to be unhindered by "adventure mode" elements whilst the character (& player) is in a life or death situation. The "Witcher" RPG implemented this feature to great effect if you need an example (both of implementation & for effect on gameplay).
--BenT
The player character is not a commando, ex-mercenary, or policeman. He is somewhat familiar with weapons (as in knows how to check the safety & reload) but hasn't spent inordinate amounts of time at the shooting range or "in the killing fields". As such, the accuracy of their shot (and hence the damage it can do) is controlled by the type of attack selected (fast vs accurate/strong), the distance to the target, and size of the target.
The player "aims" by pointing their character in the direction of the target and pressing the shoot/attack button. This has been successfully done in many horror games (Silent Hill series, Resident Evil series, Clocktower series, and so on), so I do not see why it shouldn't work on this one.
An alternative to the expressly selected mode of fast vs strong attacks is the ability to hold the attack button down for a length of time to indicate the "strength/accuracy" of the attack (longer meaning more time aiming or putting strength behind a swing). This is something I have also seen done well in horror games.
As you probably guess, I disagree with your assessment that it ruins the genre given I have seen a variety of games use this method to good effect.
Action vs Adventure Mode
This is to simulate adrenaline and/or "panic" in the player character. When a "normal" or average person is attacked or about to attack someone, they are not calm enough to search through drawers, browse through the contents of a computer, or call people on the mobile phone - they are packing it! With the exception of scrabbling for keys and the like - this is a pretty standard staple of modern horror (of which the zombie genre is a part).
The switch between the two will occur automatically in the case zombies are encountered (i.e. the character gets a shot of adrenaline/panic from the encounter) and can be switched to if the player thinks they might encounter zombies in the next room (i.e. the character pulls out a weapon and starts walking/running with the expectation they will be shooting something soon).
The reason for this dual mode is that it allows for the interface to be unhindered by "adventure mode" elements whilst the character (& player) is in a life or death situation. The "Witcher" RPG implemented this feature to great effect if you need an example (both of implementation & for effect on gameplay).
--BenT
plopperz
Huh?
BenT said:
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BenTolputt
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The screenshot is from a modified Tremulous installation I have on my laptop. I then GIMP'ed the extras on top of that with a few minor touch-ups to get across the basics of changes I am putting into the game.
As mentioned in my previous post, we need to see what kind of art assets we have at our disposal before getting into code. Taking ioquake3 or sauerbraten (cube 2) as the basis for now means getting some MD3 models of zombies and/or characters whipped up. If we don't have decent art - code isn't going to be needed (i.e. there is no game without decent art).
The zombie genre doesn't require all characters to die, but the idea of saving a majority of them goes against the basics. The idea that most the people you meet will survive kind of removes the "horror" of the genre.
That said, if people want to go humorous - there is nothing stopping them (I'm not terribly interested in it, but I'm not crucial to the project). If that were the path people wanted to follow - I would suggest modding the Cell-Shaded Q3 engine (http://q3cellshading.sourceforge.net). It's visual style mixed with decent maps, models, and gameplay elements would be a hit (just not one I'm really into developing). It would however need a really good story and/or gags to pull off.
--BenT
As mentioned in my previous post, we need to see what kind of art assets we have at our disposal before getting into code. Taking ioquake3 or sauerbraten (cube 2) as the basis for now means getting some MD3 models of zombies and/or characters whipped up. If we don't have decent art - code isn't going to be needed (i.e. there is no game without decent art).
The zombie genre doesn't require all characters to die, but the idea of saving a majority of them goes against the basics. The idea that most the people you meet will survive kind of removes the "horror" of the genre.
That said, if people want to go humorous - there is nothing stopping them (I'm not terribly interested in it, but I'm not crucial to the project). If that were the path people wanted to follow - I would suggest modding the Cell-Shaded Q3 engine (http://q3cellshading.sourceforge.net). It's visual style mixed with decent maps, models, and gameplay elements would be a hit (just not one I'm really into developing). It would however need a really good story and/or gags to pull off.
--BenT
plopperz
Huh?
I always liked cel-shaded games. But if you're not too interested, then we probably shouldn't do it, considering that you're leading this project (at least I think you are) and by the sounds of it, you're a pretty skilled developer.
What we really need now are more developers and people that can come up with a really good story.
What we really need now are more developers and people that can come up with a really good story.
BenTolputt
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Well, to be honest, I was hoping to "join" a project, the fact that a project with 20+ pages of conversation requires me to kick things into gear is somewhat worrisome 
As far as active participants go, we have one skilled C/C++ developer (myself), a possible C/C++ or script developer (yourself), and... that's as far as I get. For even a simple mod, you need an artist and a level designer. For a full game we need even more developers & level designers (and likely more artists as well!!!).
From what I can tell we have perhaps four people with their own idea what the game should be (and the only common elements seems to be that zombies make an appearance somewhere).
JakeK seems to have his heart set on a 2D/isometric shooter with "save the survivor" mechanics.
PlopperZ seems to like the idea of a more light-hearted game (but seems uncommitted in the 2D vs 3D debate).
A_SN seems to want a Diablo-meets-Quake3 with zombies style game without a story (as it would be "lousy" no matter what).
And then there is me (BenT) who likes the idea of a survival-horror style game with story and 3D third-person style visuals.
Much as I hate to sya it, I don't think this is going anywhere (with or without me). I'm not syaing this to "get my way" or anything like that. Simply facing the realistic factors of open source / volunteer development; and that is teams that do not agree on the basics dissolve or explode.
--BenT
As far as active participants go, we have one skilled C/C++ developer (myself), a possible C/C++ or script developer (yourself), and... that's as far as I get. For even a simple mod, you need an artist and a level designer. For a full game we need even more developers & level designers (and likely more artists as well!!!).
From what I can tell we have perhaps four people with their own idea what the game should be (and the only common elements seems to be that zombies make an appearance somewhere).
JakeK seems to have his heart set on a 2D/isometric shooter with "save the survivor" mechanics.
PlopperZ seems to like the idea of a more light-hearted game (but seems uncommitted in the 2D vs 3D debate).
A_SN seems to want a Diablo-meets-Quake3 with zombies style game without a story (as it would be "lousy" no matter what).
And then there is me (BenT) who likes the idea of a survival-horror style game with story and 3D third-person style visuals.
Much as I hate to sya it, I don't think this is going anywhere (with or without me). I'm not syaing this to "get my way" or anything like that. Simply facing the realistic factors of open source / volunteer development; and that is teams that do not agree on the basics dissolve or explode.
--BenT
plopperz
Huh?
Assuming that everyone who has signed up for something on the wiki, is in fact going to do what they signed up for; we're going to have a fair bit of people d helping out, including developers NaN and 'God' (not sure if that's an actual person though) and level designers SharQueDo, Hiroe and myself. I haven't heard from Hiroe, nor Dutch_Cap for awhile, both people heavily involved in this disscussion a while ago. If you signed up for something, it'd be nice if you confirmed it here. Just so we have an idea who's going to help. I'm going to commit myself to 3D if it can be done, to try to help us stop going in circles (I know, bad grammar).
We should really start by adding on to BenT's idea, rather than suggesting something completely different.
Sorry this post kinda warped into something other than I had planned
We should really start by adding on to BenT's idea, rather than suggesting something completely different.
Sorry this post kinda warped into something other than I had planned
JakeK
Active Member
I've just been chucking my opinion in. I understand what you mean now about the DPAD and action thing BenT, it seemed strange to begin with. I'd love to help but I'm joining the Army very soon and all up training is going to last me 2 years so I won't have the time.
I only wasn't to fussed on 3D because I was concerned about quality it would turn out in, but it seems that isn't the case.
You are the most dedicated to this project BenT and I'd suggest your idea be implemented. With your direction I'm sure the game would turn out fantastic.
I only wasn't to fussed on 3D because I was concerned about quality it would turn out in, but it seems that isn't the case.
You are the most dedicated to this project BenT and I'd suggest your idea be implemented. With your direction I'm sure the game would turn out fantastic.
yeah somehow it does die... I am not sure why that is but I think it is because noone really seems to draw a line and start. Also we really went far away from the initial idea to make a multiplayer game. So I guess this is not really going anywhere as noone really produces any results but just chucks in ideas without having read what the others had to say.
We need to start making decisions and stop discussing pointlessly. We need to decide if this is going to be 2d or 3d, what engine we are going to use and then we need to work out the game mechanics and gameplay, aswell as art.
We need to start making decisions and stop discussing pointlessly. We need to decide if this is going to be 2d or 3d, what engine we are going to use and then we need to work out the game mechanics and gameplay, aswell as art.
JakeK
Active Member
BenT is writing up the document that outlines the game. All that is needed now is that people interested in his idea step forward.
MattRDavis
Still Fresh
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I wrote a short storyline synopsis that BenT thought was interesting. Still waiting for him to contact me again via PM on the details, though.JakeK said:
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PoisonedV
Yeah, I'm a GIRL gamer, what of it?
I was really surprised by BenT's design document. Reading some of the other posts in this thread, I instantly though of a Gta1/2 type game, with some RPG characteristics- zombie themed, of course. I like BenT's design, the play mechanics DO work- alot like several different horror themed games, and Tomb Raider, but they don't seem to come to mind on what this game would be- especially multiplayer. If it was made this way, I think there would be two solutions for zombies: Totally NPC, or players control, like, 20 zombies as sort of a dungeon master, controlling them like an RTS or squad based combat game. If each single zombie is a player, there are 2 ways to do it, and either way will suck: Make them overpowered, unlike the classic Romero zombies or Make them underpowered, more like the classic zombies, but the zombie players experience will suck. Also, in both ways, the 'horde' feeling is lost.
plopperz
Huh?
I'm definately interested in his ideas. With some small improvements it would be perfect.
PoisonedV
Yeah, I'm a GIRL gamer, what of it?
Im skeptical of it- for example, how does multiplayer fit in, how does he expect to have tons of zombies on-screen if its 3D, and is the online persistent or room based?
plopperz
Huh?
I don't think his idea calls for multiplayer. He seemed to be against it in his earlier posts. You'd be amazed at how many zombies could go on-screen, and still have a bunch offscreen, but as BenT said earlier, he wants to have some strategy, not just shooting zombies just for the hell of it. I think we might add multiplayer later on, after singleplayer's been done.PoisonedV said:
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PoisonedV
Yeah, I'm a GIRL gamer, what of it?
Oh, see, I thought the point all along was to make it an MMO, or at least have online capabilities.
plopperz
Huh?
Well it started that way. Then it warped into something completely different. I still would like to see an MMO. Maybe this just isn't the project for that though. After the Pandora is released I'll look into creating one again, or at the very least porting an existing MMO.PoisonedV said:
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