Zombie Apocalypse

[BenTolputt]

QUOTE
I thought we had Multiplayer/MMO and possibly singleplayer.
Anyway, I'd like to see a raw shooter with lots of stuff (weapons, vehicles, buildings etc.)
Like to see cartoony but could live with realistic (aslong as it's not too dark)



The above (without actually picking on PlopperZ, his is just the most recent post), is exactly what I am talking about when I mention "going around the block".

The first line (single-player vs multi/massive-player) completely defines what is and is not possible and where coding effort needs to be directed. It was my impression that single-player was decided on due to limited WiFi & lack of "user base" (Pandora's 3000 unit launch). I'm not advocating either side, but thought the decision had been made on practical grounds...

The second line ("raw shooter with lots of stuff") is what I was referring to when I said "be specific". Define "raw shooter". Define "stuff". If you're ripping concepts from other games, use them a a reference to what you are talking about (see my example on using "Syndicate"). How are "buildings" used in the game. Are they simply obstacles or can they be entered &/or destroyed?

The last line (cartoon vs realistic) is incredibly important for the choosing concept artists &/or what they create. Gameplay elements should reflect the style (realistic style implies limited weapons and more strategic based use of them, cartoon style lends itself to more explosive/destructive gameplay, etc).

Given we seem to be not getting much further (admittedly only one day since I posted), I suggest someone write up a design document or "game bible" outlining what they see the game to be (with afore mentioned specifics).

--BenT

 

[plopperz]

Sorry, that was kindof a bad post, considering what you wrote before, I'll go into detail of what I meant:
I thought we were discussing the problems associated with having Multiplayer rather than reasons not to have it, it seems most if not all of the people here would like to have Multiplayer in one form or another. If it were not to be an MMO then it should have some kind of single player game mode, but emphasize on Multiplay.
By raw shooter I meant less stratigic play, but just run at the Zombies and shoot them, blow them up, run them over with a vehicle, or hit them with a melee weapon. Rather than being stealthy and sneaking around them. You could enter most (maybe all) buildings which would contain useful items, nothing helpful, or just a bunch of Zombies. It would be located in a medium-sized town (with a few apartment buildings and ~10-20 stores), on a small tropical island that is infested by Zombies, who teleport in from various locations on the island. Your goal is to find out why the Zombies are coming in and eventually stop them (if it is MMO then you never do), and also complete mini-goals at the same time. There would be lots of vehicles, such as abandoned cars, bicycles, and motorcycles. There would be many weapons to find, including shotguns, pistols, axes, explosives, and of course chainsaws. You could use in-game currency from completing mini-goals to buy new weapons, and other useful items. You would never be forced to do any mission, you could spend your entire time exploring the Island and killing zombies. The large beaches on the island would be filled with large boulders, beached whales and ships, as well as other large obstacles. If it were to be MMO, this area would serve as a PvP area, where people could go to kill other players, in order to obtain new items and extra experience points.

As for the graphics style, I would prefer to have cartoony, because it would probably easier to make the sprites and I would like to have, as you put it, an "explosive/destructive" gameplay. It would have progressive stats, (e. g. if you killed a bunch of Zombies with the pistol, you would get better with the pistol)

I guess this has become my "game bible." I would make some concept art, except my computer really sucks and I'm not the greatest artist to begin with (although, I'll be getting a new computer sometime next week, so I might play around with that and see what I can come up with.) We seemed to have come quite a far ways in the past day, considering where we were last week and we really appreciate your help, BenT, and by the sounds of it you could probably be a pretty big help in the development to this game, as well as to the whole community. I'd really like to know what you guys think of my idea so please comment on it. Thanks!

 

[JakeK]

I just thought of another reason for single player, since it's portable, we're not always going to be in a WiFi Zone.

Then doesn't this cement in your mind that Multiplayer is going to be a big waste of time? As much as I would like to hop on a server with my mates and go and shoot some zombies and build a base this sort of thing is suited to a more mainstream product.

I have said it again and again but I'll say it again.

Small amount of people + on a handheld + availability of WiFi + location of players = Not good for a multiplayer game. It is a horrible idea to make a game that essentially focuses on multiplayer, if anything the game should be made with the emphasis on single player with multiplayer coming second (or even added on later).

Hiroe has pretty much nailed it on the head for how I'd like the game. But maybe with the addition of free roaming.

BenT you've been a good help.

 

[fusion_power]

Are we talking just Q3 style map "game rooms" which come & go or a more persistent world involving either sharded "rooms" or a more continuous world?

--BenT

Please no poor Outdoor Areas a la "room with a Sky-Texture at the Ceiling". If the game will be 3D, I want a more "real" Outdoor like in UT 2003-UT3 or WoW etc...)

how about we do a top down isometric shooter? with controls like you mentioned but from an isometric point of view. I'm thinking isometric grand theft auto with zombies. if were going to do 2d I don't think it would be imposable to make it mmo. we could use fife for the engine, even I can edit python so that's a plus.

I think using a 2d engine would make it infinitely easier for more members of the community to help with it. it would really be community powered then.

we need to decide exactly what kind of game we want before we decide though.

A cool thing would be a 2D prespective with a 3D Engine, something like the old GTA games (top Down). With the classical 2-D perspective you have much more overview...of course with 3D first Person you are more "IN" the Action.
...would it be to much to have a option to switch between first person 3D View and isometric/ Pseudeo 2D top Down view? This would allow interesting game modes/tactics/strategies.

 

[BenTolputt]

A quick thing to consider - the "limitations" of the device. While Pandora is technically head & tails above other hand-helds, it is still WAY under the specs of a modern PC. So when thinking about the features to include (& their performance), look at similar specs.

For example, while room with 'sky ceiling' is not the best we have today, the two games you are comparing it to have MUCH larger specifications for the underlying device (in memory, CPU, & graphics capability).

While not totally "old school", their needs to be careful planning of features to system specs given most of us are used to what a modern machine can do.

Not to say that I don't like terrains with skybox, but they are harder to optimise for rendering.

--BenT

 

[JakeK]

Are we talking just Q3 style map "game rooms" which come & go or a more persistent world involving either sharded "rooms" or a more continuous world?

--BenT

Please no poor Outdoor Areas a la "room with a Sky-Texture at the Ceiling". If the game will be 3D, I want a more "real" Outdoor like in UT 2003-UT3 or WoW etc...)

how about we do a top down isometric shooter? with controls like you mentioned but from an isometric point of view. I'm thinking isometric grand theft auto with zombies. if were going to do 2d I don't think it would be imposable to make it mmo. we could use fife for the engine, even I can edit python so that's a plus.

I think using a 2d engine would make it infinitely easier for more members of the community to help with it. it would really be community powered then.

we need to decide exactly what kind of game we want before we decide though.

A cool thing would be a 2D prespective with a 3D Engine, something like the old GTA games (top Down). With the classical 2-D perspective you have much more overview...of course with 3D first Person you are more "IN" the Action.
...would it be to much to have a option to switch between first person 3D View and isometric/ Pseudeo 2D top Down view? This would allow interesting game modes/tactics/strategies.


2D and 3D first person view? That would be extremely hard to do. If Quake 3 is going be the game that shows the power of the Pandora I wouldn't expect anything else in first person view too look any better. Which is why this game should stick with top down view with a semi-cartoony/artistic look. In this way we can avoid blocky textures etc etc.

A quick thing to consider - the "limitations" of the device. While Pandora is technically head & tails above other hand-helds, it is still WAY under the specs of a modern PC. So when thinking about the features to include (& their performance), look at similar specs.
--BenT

Exactly, that is why the viewing perspective needs to be done in such a way that it will look good while the graphics being crisp.

I don't know about anyone else, but jumping into a FPS game and shooting semi-decent blocky zombies doesn't seem fun.

You guys should decide on how you want it, make a poll for what perspective, gametypes and multiplayer/singleplayer or just one of them.

 

[plopperz]

We have to decide this ourselves, if we do a poll, everyone will want a high-end game like a MMOFPS without knowing the difficulty behind making it.

Oh and by the way, has anyone seen this? Or have any idea what he's talking about?

 

[MattRDavis]

Oh and by the way, has anyone seen this? Or have any idea what he's talking about?



My apologies if I wasn't clear, it was a long day at work. :blink:

Essentially, I would like to do a game that is not so much a game as an experience. I'm not a hippie, even by the most liberal interpretation of the word, but to steal one of their mantras: the game we've been talking about doing would be more about the journey than the destination.

I didn't include much technical information on the game as, like I said, we're not programmers so we don't want to start developing systems & mechanics for the game until we've gotten together with someone who is intimately familiar with the capabilities of the system.

Anyways, I dig the idea of a zombie game, always been one of my favorite genres; from the old Lucio Fulci gore-fests to the modernized 28 Days Later running zombies...

I'm not 100% up to date on everything in this thread but I have been lurking around for a bit, following the various projects & one thing I'd like to see in a zombie game that is almost always prevalent in film but absent in video games is actual survival. You see the "Survival Horror" label thrown around a lot these days but when you boil most of the games in that genre down, they're basic Action/Adventure games with little emphasis on survival other than shooting the zombie in front of you so he doesn't kill you.

It'd be cool to see something that focused less on actual combat & gun play and more on the stresses of actually surviving in a world filled with zombies... the constant search for new food sources, ammunition, the loneliness of being stranded in a world populated by people you know that are no longer recognizable & the distant calling of stray radio signals that tempt you to seek them out... those are the things that I think would be cool. I mean, I like shooting undead targets in the face as much as the next guy but give me emotion & substance over repetitive motion syndrome any day.

 

[BenTolputt]

Two good points raised - which I respond to below

1) Who Makes the Decisions?

As PlopperZ correctly pointed out - polls are useless in this equation. This project will rely on the enthusiasm of the "developers" to keep going. Regardless of how rabid a fanbase the game may or may not generate - without commercial recompense, they mean precisely "squat" in terms of completing the project.

In other words, the game has to be something that gets the developers excited and motivated. If others get excited too - fantastic, but it's not going to do much for moving the project forward if the key developers are bored with the concept/direction.

Which leads me to...

2) Game Concept

I'm with MattRDavis on this. Shooting zombies is kind of cool, but it WILL get old pretty fast. We're not going to compete on the "cool graphics" front, which is the only thing that tends to prop up mediocre FPS games. As such, I'm leaning toward the view that a "blowing shit/zombies up" game is not something I'd be interested in taking time away from the family for.

That's not to say I'm taking off now (as I believe the game concept is STILL not properly nailed down), but my contribution will be significantly less if the game is "Quake maps with zombies" or something on that level.

Things that would get me (and perhaps others) excited include:

• Survival Horror with storyline. Limited weapons, story/mystery driven game progression, and at least some character progression (as in personality, back story, etc not "RPG stats").
• Clever uses of the Pandora features. This is being developed for a DAMN cool device people - let's look at what we can do with it. The Nintendo DS has games with next to no "great graphics", but they utilise the device to the utmost and (as such) become unique and desirable.
• Iconic Characters/Game. Wouldn't it be great if this game were to become associated with Pandora in the same way Mario is with Nintendo, Sonic with Sega, Master Chief with XBox? The reason *I* am excited about developing for Pandora is that I have a chance to be a part of the success story (thinking positive). Another "shooter" is not going to cut it for that kind of thing

--BenT

 

[plopperz]

^ agreed, anyone can go and emulate some of the best games on other systems (Mario, Sonic, GTA etc.) So why should they play ours? We have to make this game unique and like nothing you'd find anywhere else.

 

[JakeK]

From the sounds of it most of you devs have a different opinion on what you want the game to be, though it seems survival horror (in its true sense) is popular but the perspective in which to play the game is also all over the place. Singleplayer/Multiplayer etc is also another thing in the air.

The unique approach is great, and buildable bases and roaming a city etc is unique.

 

[BenTolputt]

OK guys, we seem to be going in circles. In order to kick-start this project I'm going to do two things here. One, I'm going to put forward the zombie project I would be interested in working on (&/or leading if necessary).Second, I'm going to ask what skills we have available.

The Game:

The game I would be interested in working on would be something more than a shooter. In fact, while shooting (and explosions of some form) would be necessary, the game would be about something OTHER than mowing down hordes of zombies with reams of ammunition & weapons. I'm a big fan of the "28 Days Later" movie & the "Walking Dead" comic, where the zombies create a situation that frames the story.

In terms of game style - I would be interested in a third-person style game (similar in interface to GTA3), where the user wanders around an almost empty city for a while before encountering their first zombie. Then as the game progresses (and more tools come to hand) more zombies at a time start appearing until (say 1/3 through the game) it becomes impossible to take them all on and the player has to start thinking strategically about how to handle the hordes.

The back story would be trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Depending on the dialog/script writer, this could be presented in a seriously spooky manner (ala "28 Days Later") or more humorously (ala Bruce Campbell in "Army of Darkness"). Either one works for the style of game (and the latter style could help towards "cult classic" status).

I think GTA3-level graphics (with slightly simpler ) would work brilliantly in both the ability of the device (GTA3 had similar min. spec requirements) and in terms of making a game that can support a multitude of activities (rather than just zombie shooting).

This is not the only type of game I am willing to put effort into, but it is the kind of thing that could make Pandora handsets stand out from the crowd (i.e. it's something that, if done well, could convince media to put attention into Pandora).

That being said, such a game would require commitment and skill to pull off. I am confident in my abilities as a developer (having worked on low-end devices & game engines before), so...

The People:

What talent do we have available? I've given my blurb, but want to know what else we have on board. I've looked over the wiki, but haven't seen everyone supposedly signed up making comments for a little while at least in this thread. As such, I think if would be good if we could have a roundup of committed contributors with a realistic overview of their skills and time they can give to the project.

I've given my skill-set previously. I'm also committed to putting in on average an hour or two a day to start with then ramping up as required.

--BenT

 

[plopperz]

I like the idea, but are we going to be able to code this? Sounds like alot of work.
Would it work if it was isometric?

 

[J201605]

...
I think GTA3-level graphics (with slightly simpler ) would work brilliantly in both the ability of the device (GTA3 had similar min. spec requirements) and in terms of making a game that can support a multitude of activities (rather than just zombie shooting).

Even if gta3 could run on a pandora the game was made by a huge team of professional developers over a long period of time, a community made zombie game will never happen if you try something like this.

If you guys actually want anything to ever come of this you will either have to take Craigix's suggestion and mod a pre existing game (probably quake 3) or you will have to make an abstract 2d game... you all need to get out of two year old dream land and realize that you have no way of accomplishing alot of these ideas.

Get real and have one person get in charge and build a team or nothing will ever come of this because through your designing by committee you haven't even made one concrete decision yet.

 

[BenTolputt]

QUOTE
Even if gta3 could run on a pandora the game was made by a huge team of professional developers over a long period of time, a community made zombie game will never happen if you try something like this.


You are quite right, GTA3 (including all missions, graphics, audio, radio, scripting, scope of setting, automated populace, etc) did take a large team and alot of time. However, I explicitly said "GTA3-level graphics", not a GTA3 clone.

As to the "two year old dream land" comment, I offered my skills on this project less than 48hrs ago. In that time, I have tried to pull together a unified idea of what is desired from the game, have tried to get an overall view of the skillset available, and have made an effort to bring expectations in-line with the device. Without knowing the talent-set I can draw from, the feasibility of ANY game is in question right now.

With all due respect Jackd - what are you bringing to the equation? I could aim low (i.e. an isometric game blasting zombies with guns & grenades and that's about it) or I could aim just a tad higher (actual 3D to show off the Pandora's GPU, something with storyline to make the game interesting for more than five minutes, etc). I KNOW what I am capable of as a developer.

--BenT

 

[plopperz]

Do you know of an engine we could do it with?

 

[J201605]

With all due respect Jackd - what are you bringing to the equation?

No respect is due and the answer to your question is nothing. I just thought that this was a cool project at its inception and was reminding those involved to be realistic and find creative ways to keep it simple because if they shoot too high and they bicker too much about which ideas to use without anyone taking control then what could have been an awesome game will just be a dead thread.

 

[closetwam]

Hi, this post is me volunteering to do sfx. You know, creaky steps, rustling, doors closing, breathing, gun shots, etc. No one can be immersed into a game if it doesn't sound real AND consistent. Then again, the game Prey was creeped me out because it was so crappy...

 

[MattRDavis]

In the event that there's not further interest in the WE WANT YOU project, I'd be willing to lend a hand with storyline, dialogue, mission design & game mechanics. I have experience in this area through my early involvement in boardgame design & later involvement in designing rulesets, game mechanics, plots, etc. for web-based games. Not to mention I am comfortable with my level of ability in storytelling that I am certain that I could write an engaging & unique story for this game.

Also, in addition to the above, I think I have probably seen just about every zombie movie that has existed, ever, regardless of release date, country of origin & quality.

 

[rasczak]

I did some 3D models some years ago and texturing, even now I still make "3D models" for cutout. I used Lightwave and sometimes Blender to work with 3D and now I use Sketchup; If a project about an isometric 3D game, I could give a hand with some models.

I'm also RPGamer since 15 years ago and have experience in creating storylines and characters.

Want my hand? Just tell me.