You Guys Are Not Going To Believe It

[Rayek]

Who gives a shit about the graphics? If you ask me, too much obsession with graphics quality is what is leading to all the shitty games that are coming out nowadays.

Most of the games nowadays focus on good graphics, and normally don't put enough thought into game mechanics and play. Not to mention, the difficulty of most games nowadays pale in comparison to all the old games.

Because people obsess over graphics, we aren't seeing the quality of games nowadays that we deserve, and I think it's bullshit to insult a game system because it doesn't have good graphics. Because it's not the graphics that matter, it's the quality of the games.

EDIT: Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I had to get it off my chest.

-God Ginrai

A blog post of mine dealing with this subject at length... Sorry about the self-promo, but I think its a good piece of work

 

[God Ginrai]

Who gives a shit about the graphics? If you ask me, too much obsession with graphics quality is what is leading to all the shitty games that are coming out nowadays.

Most of the games nowadays focus on good graphics, and normally don't put enough thought into game mechanics and play. Not to mention, the difficulty of most games nowadays pale in comparison to all the old games.

Because people obsess over graphics, we aren't seeing the quality of games nowadays that we deserve, and I think it's bullshit to insult a game system because it doesn't have good graphics. Because it's not the graphics that matter, it's the quality of the games.

EDIT: Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I had to get it off my chest.

-God Ginrai

A blog post of mine dealing with this subject at length... Sorry about the self-promo, but I think its a good piece of work


It's quite nice, although I like my good gameplay to be backed by good storylines, when it comes to RPGs.

-God Ginrai

 

[chad78]

A blog post of mine dealing with this subject at length... Sorry about the self-promo, but I think its a good piece of work
It's quite nice, although I like my good gameplay to be backed by good storylines, when it comes to RPGs. I agree with Optimus. RPGs without a good story is just repetitive battles, leveling up, and collecting objects. You can't say that story has nothing to do with gameplay.

There are some genres - like platformers, where the storyline is pretty much meaningless. Mario, Sonic, Megaman, or God of War (and, yes, God of War is a platformer - a side-scrolling one at that, with a fixed camera angle. There are some puzzle elements to it, and, of course, 3D graphics - but strip it down, it's a side-scrolling platformer.) - they are all interchangeable storylines. Save the princess, defeat Robotnik, destroy Dr. Wily, kill Ares... None of that truly "matters" it's just an excuse to make another game.

Let's face it - do you really care that much about Dr. Wily? Do you truly fear for Princess Toadstool's safety? Does Ares piss you off that much? I'm willing to say probably not.

But in an RPG - the story is pretty much everything. The mechanics aren't all that different from the first video game RPGs. You wonder around, you kill thousands of ever-more-powerful identical looking creatures. You buy ever-more-expensive weapons and defenses. You learn ever-more-cool-sounding skills or spells. You go to one dungeon/castle/cave after another to collect some relic that will open another door to another dungeon/castle/cave so you can get another relic, repeat, until you get the relic that let's you destroy - or at least attempt to destroy the ultimate evil that is controlling/about-to-control/about-to-destroy your land/kingdom/planet... Random battles, hundreds of identical looking townspeople, tons of randomly placed treasure chests that people don't really care about or even seem to notice you looting when you first enter their house uninvited. From the original Dragon Warrior to the latest Final Fantasy - the mechanics don't really change. The random battles might be turn based or time based - the leveling up might be a little different - but the Rayek-defined "game play" is virtually identical. If you take out the story - there's no reason to play an RPG.

I've always looked at RPGs - whether they are on paper, on a board, or on a computer - as interactive fiction. You take the story out of that - you've got nothing.

I'm guessing Rayek doesn't think games like Oregon Trail, Kings Quest, or Myst have much in the way of Game Play. Because they are 90% story, if not more.

*EDIT* I can't speel.

 

[God Ginrai]

A blog post of mine dealing with this subject at length... Sorry about the self-promo, but I think its a good piece of work
It's quite nice, although I like my good gameplay to be backed by good storylines, when it comes to RPGs. I agree with Optimus. RPGs without a good story is just repetitive battles, leveling up, and collecting objects. You can't say that story has nothing to do with gameplay.

There are some genres - like platformers, where the storyline is pretty much meaningless. Mario, Sonic, Megaman, or God of War (and, yes, God of War is a platformer - a side-scrolling one at that, with a fixed camera angle. There are some puzzle elements to it, and, of course, 3D graphics - but strip it down, it's a side-scrolling platformer.) - they are all interchangeable storylines. Save the princess, defeat Robotnik, destroy Dr. Wily, kill Ares... None of that truly "matters" it's just an excuse to make another game.

Let's face it - do you really care that much about Dr. Wily? Do you truly fear for Princess Toadstool's safety? Does Ares piss you off that much? I'm willing to say probably not.

But in an RPG - the story is pretty much everything. The mechanics aren't all that different from the first video game RPGs. You wonder around, you kill thousands of ever-more-powerful identical looking creatures. You buy ever-more-expensive weapons and defenses. You learn ever-more-cool-sounding skills or spells. You go to one dungeon/castle/cave after another to collect some relic that will open another door to another dungeon/castle/cave so you can get another relic, repeat, until you get the relic that let's you destroy - or at least attempt to destroy the ultimate evil that is controlling/about-to-control/about-to-destroy your land/kingdom/planet... Random battles, hundreds of identical looking townspeople, tons of randomly placed treasure chests that people don't really care about or even seem to notice you looting when you first enter their house uninvited. From the original Dragon Warrior to the latest Final Fantasy - the mechanics don't really change. The random battles might be turn based or time based - the leveling up might be a little different - but the Rayek-defined "game play" is virtually identical. If you take out the story - there's no reason to play an RPG.

I've always looked at RPGs - whether they are on paper, on a board, or on a computer - as interactive fiction. You take the story out of that - you've got nothing.

I'm guessing Rayek doesn't think games like Oregon Trail, Kings Quest, or Myst have much in the way of Game Play. Because they are 90% story, if not more.

*EDIT* I can't speel.


Well put. I like that idea about RPGs being interactive fiction.

-God Ginrai

 

[gibberish]

well said that man

 

[Rayek]

Well, see how I define gameplay, and that would explain why I don't think that RPGs have any gameplay. Cloud walking through the world map is pretty much it. In those games, story IS the point, not gameplay. I wasn't really focusing on RPGs, though.

In fact, one of my favorite retro games of all time has ABSOLUTELY no gameplay (as I define it), which is Snatcher for the SCD.

My point with the blog post is that we're seeing gameplay heavily compromised as the years progress, and to be completely fair, all FPSs and all third-person action/adventure games (i.e. all games, ever since 1997) have the same simple mechanic if you take away story, level incentives, or 'graphic detail'. Broken down, Half-Life 2 is just a prettier Wolfenstein 3D /joke, kinda.

RPGs are kind of apart from this debate, to tell you the truth. Its hard to connect Sonic moving around Green Hill Zone with a menu selection in Final Fantasy. The ever-increasing popularity of the genre is another question, as people start wanting interactive movies more and challenging feats of dexterity less.

All in the trend of the 'movie-ization' of the games industry.

Other blog posts of mine that delve into the subject:

Review: Trigger Heart Exelica
Review: Metal Slug Anthology (Wii)

 

[chad78]

All in the trend of the 'movie-ization' of the games industry.

First, I don't see a problem with the movie-ization of games. I see video games as, (and don't take this badly) just another media for storytelling. That's not a slam, by any means. Music, painting, television, books, cave drawings, oral tradition, radio, blogs... All different media for sharing the meaning behind the human experience.

That includes blowing shit up. That includes overweight Italian plumbers sliding down sewage drains to rescue Fungi princesses from turtle dragons that throw hammers. That includes epic quests in mythical lands. That includes really fast blue rodents....

So, to me, a movie-type game that nearly completely leans on storytelling is a mark of the maturation of the medium, and proof of the main-stream acceptance of that medium as valid.

That being said - I don't think there is a trend to movie-ize at the expense of play-heavy type games.

Which console is more popular? The BlueRay-sporting console made by a movie company, or the one where you shake a stick at the screen to go fishing? What is - or at least was for a long time - the most talked about / popular game on the 360? A $5 Asteroids knock-off. What's the most popular handheld game? It's a dog simulator. There's no story there - just a lot of petting and whistling. What two games are tearing up all the consoles that exists? the ones where you pretend to be a musician by air-guitaring with a plastic box in your hand...

Need I go on?

Casual gaming is - by far - taking over the gaming market. Nothing but game play, there. It's not about storylines (Really, what is the story behind Geometry Wars? The Triangles are invading?) at all. Nintendogs, Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Geometry Wars, Patapon, Brain Age, Meteos, Cooking Mama, Lumines, Loco Roco, Katamari Damacy, Remakes - sequels - virtual consoles - antholgy collections of old systems, WiiWare... All this stuff is gameplay centered - not graphics centered - not story centered... And it's all popular. Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Sonic & Mario at the Olympics - all about Game Play.

It sounds to me like you don't play a lot of Nintendo games if you're worried about the loss of gameplay.

 

[Falcon Delta]

I know you guys hate chan humor, but "HEY GUYS WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS THREAD?" has never been more fitting. Seriously, shouldn't this be locked about now?

 

[rmm2131]

I see video games as, (and don't take this badly) just another media for storytelling.

That is so very true, but I believe video games are even better than traditional storytelling in that they are interactive with the player. In a way, you are "living" as the characters in their world which makes it so much more exciting, as well as you can learn and absorb the given message better from the story.

 

[Kyo]

"oh hey mario so the princess got kidnapped again, why don't you go ahead and rescue her"

BEST

STORY

EVUR