World News Thread (Politics,whatever)

levi

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True, these days I'm not at all remembering what I was told in the early 90s at all well. I used 'sleaseball' as a slightly old-fashioned slur deliberately, because I wasn't sure what he'd been accused of and that could cover picking your nose obstructively all the way up to sexting coworkers or whatever.

As I say, it's largely irrelevant to me what his sexual picadillos are. I'm not going to strip my systems of old gnu tools and to do so would represent a dismissal of the hundreds of other people only a fraction of which are likely to turn out of be sexual monsters any time soon.
 

Klumpen

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Here's a pretty good thread about the whole problem, it's not very long, so read it to the end, the bottom posts are also good for explaining the whole mechanic:
twitter.com/JonasKyratzes/status/1173657905054330880
 

Klumpen

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http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128122

tldr; inappropriate comments around women and consent.
Ok, I got the post in question now and will ignore all the usual social media witch hunt around it:
---

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So he was just being a pedant as always, I don't see the problem.
He could have worded it better, as in defining the difference between "assault" and "abuse".
Since he's a machine he probably doesn't judge a lot that isn't connected to logic flaws anyway.
I don't like to see every weirdo removed from tech, they usually have most to offer and afaik never harmed anyone.

I really dislike that online persecution.
See the Twitter post above.
 

ClockworkCoder

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@Klumpen I agree. However, as these things go, other statements he's made have been gone through. This is the reason I didn't link to a specific news article in my first comment about him and Epstein as they are usually just clickbait or exaggerated for effect.

Taken in isolation Stallman has made some quite shocking comments (age of consent and the definition of sexual assault), but such is his personality, and he makes a point of using his own words for things which also seems to confuse some.

It's sad this is the world we live in. Many people's careers and lives have been ruined by glib comments. trolls, or off-hand tweets or posts.
 

ElPoco

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And many people's careers and lives have been ruined by people who were long considered as "harmless weirdoes".
I know a few people who've walked away from some FOSS communities because there was an insufferable community member that everybody looked up to.
 
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ClockworkCoder

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I know a few people who've walked away from some FOSS communities because there was an insufferable community member that everybody looked up to
That happens everywhere, such is life.

The problem is when social media amplify singular viral memes that are at best only a fraction of a larger truth, at worst they are destructive fabrications.
 

___

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it has long been known that stallman has some pretty radical theories about pedophilia, child pornography and consent. he has not been witch hunted by social media, he has brought this upon himself, you can read about it in his blog and several publications. the social climate has changed towards sex offenders and defenders of those, with the words of @ClockworkCoder: such is life. it used to be okay to call someone a nigger and segregate races in busses, now it's not acceptable anymore (thankfully), such is life. it used to be okay that women could not vote, now it is ok, such is life. it used to be ok to be a sexist asshole, now it's not, such is life. stop whining about it and deal with it.

And many people's careers and lives have been ruined by people who were long considered as "harmless weirdoes".
I know a few people who've walked away from some FOSS communities because there was an insufferable community member that everybody looked up to.
exactly this! where have the few active women gone, that were members of this board? why did they leave? i can only imagine why and i am about to leave too. the debates in the offtopic section have always been difficult for me, but the recent gamergate like fuckery makes me want to puke my guts out. the whole zoe quinn debacle for example, and i don't care if they lied or what ever, what i care about is what conclusions people derive from that and how disgustingly misogynist comments are. it clearly shows that i am not in the community where i want to be anymore. there are only a couple of people left that i respect for their contributions, but a bunch of arrogant assholes with a shitty attitude have become the loudest voices here and i am not only talking about blatant bigotry. fuck this shitty scene... time to move on and become a lurker, nothing i would want to discuss here besides the pyra anway. i guess i'll keep my account for now, lets see if the pyra comes out, then i might need it again, but i sure as hell don't want to frequent the boards as a user anymore.
 

ClockworkCoder

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I never had the intention of defending Stallman, if that is what has been perceived. I don't know the guy, but I certainly do not agree with everything he says.
 

Klumpen

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I never had the intention of defending Stallman, if that is what has been perceived. I don't know the guy, but I certainly do not agree with everything he says.
Neither do I, but as the ex wife of one of the recently accused implied so nicely (to his support), there's a difference between someone being "kind of a dick" and an abuser.

What the post above clearly shows is this classic "us vs. them" mentality which bonds with hatred against something instead of love for something.
No discussion, no arguments, no trying to shed some light here and there and help other people see one's own point of view, just sticking to "one's own" and hating everyone else.
Maybe ___ (whoever that was, I can't access the profile) has some direct insight and proof, maybe s/he's just riled up in some clan war where it's only about who said what and why instead of actual deeds or dialogue, we'll never know since that's yet another one isolating him/herself rather than being willing to discuss.

Maybe I'm the last one, but to me "In dubio pro reo" is still pretty important.
 
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ElPoco

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I don't know @Klumpen, I feel that you too have your axe to grind against some opinions/communities and are sometimes more likely to spread hate and/or contempt rather than respectful dialog.
Besides, I don't think you can blame people for refusing to engage or getting into a "us vs them" mentality in some cases. I'd fully understand a black person who wouldn't want to spend a night of "constructive dialogue" with a room full of KKK activists.

The issues of the Holowka cases are complex. It's quite impactful for me because it mirrors somethings that happened to a close friend of mine. And even in that case, about which I know more, I wouldn't be able to have an opinion as clear cut as the one you're displaying here about the Holowka case.
 

Klumpen

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I don't know @Klumpen, I feel that you too have your axe to grind against some opinions/communities and are sometimes more likely to spread hate and/or contempt rather than respectful dialog.
Besides, I don't think you can blame people for refusing to engage or getting into a "us vs them" mentality in some cases. I'd fully understand a black person who wouldn't want to spend a night of "constructive dialogue" with a room full of KKK activists.
Of course I understand that, as a vegan I was in a similar position myself way too often but that doesn't mean that it's the right way.
As for your example, I admire people like Daryl Davis:
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes?t=1568731909205

The issues of the Holowka cases are complex. It's quite impactful for me because it mirrors somethings that happened to a close friend of mine. And even in that case, about which I know more, I wouldn't be able to have an opinion as clear cut as the one you're displaying here about the Holowka case.
I haven't even posted my opinion on the Holowka case, I don't know him but guess that he was at some point a douche with too many problems with himself who was entangled in a circle full of people with varying degrees of mental illness of various kinds and that never ends well. Due to the fact, that this has been suddenly been brought to everyone's attention due to (quickly deleted) allegations coming from the notorious Zoe Quinn, a person who has proven time and again that she will sleep with men as well as lie to her advantage whenever possible, sheds a lot of doubt on that side too though, especially since she just scammed a whole lot of Kickstarter users again and needs money she blew on a vacation in Japan instead.
Maybe you refer to the Jonas Kyratzes case and yeah, to me it looks as though practically everything was fabricated, but alas I don't know any of these people either and today there's no investigation anyway, just mobs like in medieval times. His case just showed how many people there are to support some allegation with fabricated stories just to bring someone down, so I have reason to believe that this is a thing.
 
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ClockworkCoder

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levi

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Would Wally or any other mod mind moving all of this crud out of the world news thread? Including my own contributions, which relate only to this twitter spat and not anything that could be constituted as 'world news'.
 
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WizardStan

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Were does the crud start or end in this thread...
I'm pretty sure it starts back on page 30 when you basically gave comradekingu a blanket pass to shitpost here as long as he didn't do it anywhere else. The quality of "world news and politics" dropped right off the cliff after that.
 
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