Why is it not allowed to post copyrighted stuff?

[SomeGuy99]

Legaly? It's still not allowed, if not permitted from author or whoever have the right on the article.

But the words won't even be the same... what if they heavily reworded it?

 

[Orion4874]

Well, would it be considered piracy since it was only one article from a magazine, and not the entire isue? They don't sell magazines by the article. This is more of a question than an opinion.

 

[chaosfx]

ok just a last post :
this board is about gpx , pandora and the wiz .
most of the games played on these MAY be pirated (like craigs game being pirated ...) so this is all a grey area

so try to keep this place as clean as possible from any copyrightviolations.

imho mali did a great job in removing the scans and i can't understand some people complaining about him for doing this.
especially in boards like these any problematic things like scans etc should be deleted asap

 

[Ravnos]

I'd just like to point out that, for the record, there have been numerous scans posted in the past for articles related to the GP32, GP2X, Wiz, and Pandora. Not a flood, but enough that I remember it happening and my memory is shit. But I believe the protocol for that was to wait until the month after the magazine was out and was no longer on most shelves. If it wasn't practical to buy it, there was less of an objection to it being posted here.

That was never the case with roms, music, or movies, though. It's always been pretty strict regarding that here.

 

[chris_c]

In copyright law there is an allowance for what is known as "fair use" while the definition is somewhat loose its usually accepted the 5% or so of a media like a book or mag is fair, that is why there are photocopy machines in Libraries.

It is by all means fair use to post a single page article - this is after all not the whole magazine.

The publisher could *request* that the post be taken down, if the free advertising for their product upset them, but they would be very unlikely to get anywhere in court and after they had paid both parties costs they would be very out of pocket...

In the unlikely case they did request it was taken down that's when a moderator should swing into action - blanket banning of fair use material is rather unfair...

 

[mali]

I'd just like to point out that, for the record, there have been numerous scans posted in the past for articles related to the GP32, GP2X, Wiz, and Pandora. Not a flood, but enough that I remember it happening and my memory is shit. But I believe the protocol for that was to wait until the month after the magazine was out and was no longer on most shelves. If it wasn't practical to buy it, there was less of an objection to it being posted here.

That was never the case with roms, music, or movies, though. It's always been pretty strict regarding that here.

In copyright law there is an allowance for what is known as "fair use" while the definition is somewhat loose its usually accepted the 5% or so of a media like a book or mag is fair, that is why there are photocopy machines in Libraries.

It is by all means fair use to post a single page article - this is after all not the whole magazine.

The publisher could *request* that the post be taken down, if the free advertising for their product upset them, but they would be very unlikely to get anywhere in court and after they had paid both parties costs they would be very out of pocket...

In the unlikely case they did request it was taken down that's when a moderator should swing into action - blanket banning of fair use material is rather unfair...

I'll happily change my mind if ED or hando gives instructions, but as long as I hear no official stance I have to rely on my common sense. I have nothing to lose here, but I don't want to let things pass without consent from the folks in charge. I have seen posts that included scans disappearing so at least one of the other MODs(or Admins) had the same thoughts.

edit:
I did some googling. It seems that "fair use" is part of American copyright and doesn't apply to Europe.

 

[Esn]

But I believe the protocol for that was to wait until the month after the magazine was out and was no longer on most shelves.

Yes, I remember that as well. From years ago.

edit:
I did some googling. It seems that "fair use" is part of American copyright and doesn't apply to Europe.

This is true. But commonwealth countries have something similar called fair dealing.

In other places such as Germany, it's much more strict; I believe you're not allowed to use the tiniest portion of a copyrighted work for any reason. (at least, those are the rules on the German Wikipedia)

On the other hand, fewer things are granted copyright in the first place in Germany.

 

[mali]

^ Interesting info Hando is Polish, ED hosts the server in Germany and the article is from the Netherlands. Too much info and in case of doubt removal was the right decision, imo.

It could be worth to resolve this with definite facts, but on the other hand it's so rare that someone posts scans that it's basically a non-issue.

 

[Orion4874]

Here's an article I found that may shed some light on this question. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

 

[mali]

^ A very good read, thanks for that

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I don't see the big issue here. Mali made a decision as a mod in what he saw as protecting the boards/community, which is his job. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with his choice, I just don't think an Inquisition needs to be held.

 

[Wootson]

The big players from the media will figure this one out for us within the next few years.

In my opinion, the article is only interesting for newcomers. Everything that's in it is already discussed to death on these forums. And it's not like this is a warez hive or something... Besides, the real problem resides with the people who host the scans, not GP32X. Or not?

Argh, copyright is so paradoxical!! :lol:

 

[Orion4874]

No problem Mali, this stuff has interested me ever since the whole Napster thing. There are certainly gray areas when it comes to this subject but more times than not it comes down to someone making an assumption. Take for example the myth that people are allowed to download a rom and keep it for 24 hours. I've read that multiple times on the internet and on various sites. I totally believed it until I actually bothered to look it up (it's completely false btw).
Companies do have to send out a C & D order before any legal action can be taken so it comes down to the mods and admins to make the call, which he did! Better safe than sorry!

 

[Esn]

To provide a counterpoint to Orion4874's link, I'd like to recommend this, from the point of view of someone "in the business". There are nice pictures, too.

 

[Tom`]

There are (IMO) a few issues being confused here: whether posting the article constituted copyright infringement ("piracy"), whether it was "wrong" or unethical, and whether or not it should have been removed as it was.

First, it's certainly copyright infringement. Fair use can be used as a defense, but it has to be judged on a case-by-case basis - it's not clearly legally defined, and in this case, the work was not being used for the purposes of parody, commentary, or criticism, so it would be unlikely to stand up in court.

Whether it was in fact an ethical violation seems highly doubtful to me. If some of us were planning to buy the magazine, but then saw the article here and then decided not to, then it would at least be arguable, but I don't think that is the case.

However, at least in the US, something like this could (in theory - it would be highly unlikely) be grounds for a lawsuit if the magazine did decide that we were responsible for damaging its profitability. While it wouldn't happen for something like this, allowing this to stand could be a bad precedent insofar as it's more or less contrary to the spirit of the rules here against linking to copyrighted ROMs. So I don't have anything against mali for the decision.

 

[Exophase]

Besides that, the rules say no copyrighted material.. if a discussion on policy should be held it should be on whether or not that rule should be there, not whether or not mali was correct to uphold it. That's his job as a mod. There wasn't really much room for interpretation on this one.

 

[Tom`]

Besides that, the rules say no copyrighted material.. if a discussion on policy should be held it should be on whether or not that rule should be there, not whether or not mali was correct to uphold it. That's his job as a mod. There wasn't really much room for interpretation on this one.

Well, to engage in some pointless rules-lawyering, it is "warez/rom links" that are not allowed - a proper subset of copyrighted materials that does not include magazine articles. Nevertheless, mali was upholding the spirit of that particular rule, so I don't think there's much room for criticism.

EDIT: this is significant insofar as it allows us to understand the context of the rule - in fact, (in some (how many?) jurisdictions, simply linking to copyrighted material is not illegal, so why is it forbidden here? I see two possibilities: it could nevertheless lead to civil action (unlikely), and/or it promotes illegal activity, something the community should keep its distance from.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Fixed in GIT, will be included in next image and in HF4.

At the (awesome!) rate these hotfixes are being developed, by the time I get my Pandora we will probably be up to Hotfix 8. Is there a quick way to tell what OS version is installed when mine arrives so I know if I will need to update it right away?

Hmm I bought one of those magazine just because of the cover being shown here on the boards I think the magazine doesnt mind a couple of extra sales?

 

[rv6502]

It's not allowed because someone could sue the owner of the forum and shut the community down, that's why.

there is this thing called fair use and fair dealing.

"Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship"

so posting scans of magazine articles talking about the Pandora in a Pandora forum are clearly fair use.

research -- nope
teaching -- not really
scholarship -- no
commentary -- yup
criticism -- yup
news reporting -- hell yeah

otherwise any screenshots of any games (even free ones, if they don't explicitly say its ok) running on anything would be copyright infringement.

 

[Orkie]

"Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship"

There is this thing called the rest of the World.