Why the Pandora is the way it is.


I was wondering... Would it be a terrible thing to post the email for, I believe it is CC, the board manufacturer that will not get the work done, so that people in the community can write them some lovely letters. Perhaps get them moving so they are not bombarded with angry emails.
Yes, that would be a very bad thing and could be the beginnings of a harassment suit against OpenPandora. At the very least, assuming OPT can get a reasonable case together to seek damages against CC, such a letter bomb could be used in the court to delay judgment. Let OPT fight their own battle in this, and cheer from the sidelines: buy their merch but stay off the field.
 
Sort of what I was thinking stan, though I wasn't implying that OPT approved of such an activity. CC would have to go after each individual who decided, without OPT's blessing, or approval, to say something. it is their freedom of speech and if they didn't associate themselves with OPT and identified themselves as an individual perspective customer I don't believe CC could do a thing about it. I am waiting to see what/if EvilDragon, Craigx, and a few of the others on the board to weigh in before I would consider doing anything myself. But I would think with a little help MasterP's story could jerk tears. Just a bit of emotional warfare...


I would figure for all intents and purposes, OPT should fervidly denounce any such plan. And I don't mean any disrespect, but regardless of OPT's position each person has the right to do this. I just see it as personal choice, nothing to do with OPT.


I would also urge any people who would contact CC make sure to think seriously about what they are doing and what the effect of their actions could be. Over all one of those things a person should think about for some time before deciding to take action. And of course keep in mind the "do no harm" mentality.
 
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Did you see this pic from their site?


beagle1.jpg



beaglecason2.jpg



beaglecason.jpg



What do you think?


Are they equal opportunity employers and this is a picture of a fuzzy with dwarfism?


Or are they trying to hide a dark culture of kidnapped foreign child labor?


We will let the picture do the talking...


See what people think about this little tidbit... <_<
 
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Sorry I am having a little to much fun running around on their site...


I love this one!


use9.png



It's one of the upper managment... Ah, I would call it "Defiant Patriotism"...


Also if you look closely at the following pictures...


home2.jpg



test1.jpg



test2.jpg



I have a hard time believing they are an "equal opportunity employer" it seems all the "whities" are good for is middle management. That is all you see in America now days... We crackers can't even get a job in production anymore. Hispanics get all the work.! :angry:


To be fair I did see one picture of what appears to be a white production worker.


test3.jpg



But without seeing the face, or knowing if she is a plant, we will never know...


I hope everyone can see this in jest... and that I didn't say anything in a way someone would find offensive...
 
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Bear in mind that some folks might not be saying something because they just outright think it's daft and VERY detrimental, to the point that they can't understand why this hasn't blown over yet... ;)
 
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Bear in mind that some folks might not be saying something because they just outright think it's daft and VERY detrimental, to the point that they can't understand why this hasn't blown over yet... ;)

Yet again, Prometheus gets to the point.


Don't start fucking things up at this juncture. Think about what OPT are trying to do here.


They're trying to raise capital via investors at present - and although a few are on these forums, many will not be. Although it's ED's initiative to do this, he and craig are lumped under one banner, that of "Pandora". If you start shouting the odds at CC then word will get around that supporters of the Pandora, and by inference the creators themselves, are nasty vindictive pieces of work. And that would make investors very worried indeed.


Without that invested money, production cannot continue. Craig is cutting costs down to the bone to keep things moving here and the last thing he needs is either a lawsuit (don't forget that this board belongs to OPT) or a loss of future funds - both of which will put a stop to future production.


Craig has mentioned in passing that legal action may be taken against CC, and this kind of thing would not look good in front of a judge. OPT needs to source more funds and move production so that the Pandora's future is secure before they try to hammer things out between themselves and CC. If that devolves into legal wrangling then so be it; but if it can be done amicably and monies refunded nicely then that would be best. If CC are pissed off with OPT because they can't control posters on their own boards, then that option might be unavailable.


So just think. You have the right to free speech, but like so many people these days forget - you cannot have any rights without responsibilities - and the responsibility to use your free speech without bringing harm to others rests with you.


So again, just think about what you're about to do, and what you hope to achieve - because if you go ahead you'll make things worse and look like the bunch of pathetic whining losers with a misplaced sense of entitlement you are. Leave this to OPT to sort out.


D.
 
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^ Dunny put it much better than I could. :p


I'm just utterly astonished that anyone sensible could consider it to be a remotely good concept, and that they could take a lack of others paying attention to it to mean that there are no objections.
 
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"So again, just think about what you're about to do, and what you hope to achieve - because if you go ahead you'll make things worse and look like the bunch of pathetic whining losers with a misplaced sense of entitlement you are. Leave this to OPT to sort out."


I think this line may be a bit offensive, I don't have a feeling of entitlement. I have yet to even pre order a Pandora. So no one owes me anything. I am planning my own pandoralike right now. Not for commercial distribution, just a one off. I will end up with a Pandora when most of the other users have been served. No rush. Looking to invest though.


I just have issues with bad business ethics. It isn't like I am calling people to arms, just looking for them to harass CC. There is no reason to seriously disrupt their business, just to keep them thinking about the subject. I have been in business for some time on my own, and on two occasions letter writing campaigns have been very successful for me.


As far as retaliatory legal action upon OPT from CC. There is nothing illegal about members writing letters. And OPT has no responsibility to keep their users in line. How could they? They just can't start trouble outside of the court system.


BTW. Thank you for your post ZXDunny, though a little agressive and a touch offensive it is much more functional then what Prometheus had to say. I worry the investors are to see the general tact of the community myself. Hearing so many angry people scare me a bit, but I have faith in OPT which is why I am planning on handing over a tidy sum when the time comes. Myself as an investor would be rather impressed with the community pulling together and setting up a peaceful and effective campaign to keep companies honest with the OPT group. Open source social action, no legal action required. Besides, the whole idea of a peaceful refund I am fairly sure has passed. Companies seldom wait this long before giving in. It would be more about convincing them to finish the OPT order before beating hard on the Beagle board.


In the past I have compiled a very polite but firm letter, expressing my feelings about the situation. Copies were available at my place of business, I had many passionate involved customers that would ask me about my production problems, I would tell them about my issue, as they had asked, and I like business transparency. I would tell them that I had written the letter and that other customers had asked for a copy they could send and that sent out copies themselves. Then that customer would want one. I would even hand them a stamped envelope. It was amazing how fast my sellers moved. One got sick of it after one week, stopped by and handed me my cash. The other was far harder to crack, it took 3 weeks, and over 25 letters, and one grouchy personal interaction. I am just a small company so to get 25 people that were interested of their own accord was rather flattering.


Anyways, I bring this up from personal experience, not from anger, or entitlement, or any other spiteful reason. My beef is about business ethics.
 
It isn't like I am calling people to arms, just looking for them to harass CC.

Which is a call to arms, in itself.


Look, just leave it. It's not your business, and it's none of your business. OPT are the only people that should sort this out, and let them do it in their own time.


D.
 
It isn't like I am calling people to arms, just looking for them to harass CC.

Which is a call to arms, in itself.


Look, just leave it. It's not your business, and it's none of your business. OPT are the only people that should sort this out, and let them do it in their own time.


D.
Though I don't think anyone should contact CC (it would be pointless anyhow as they clearly don't give a crap about this project) I would say that the original pre-order people were and are both a customer and investor and as such do have a bit of a right to know why CC doesn't care. Especially since this project would not have happened without the bevy of pre-order money that came in a few years ago. Again, I don't think emailing CC is a good idea. There is my two cents. :p
 
Email is sometimes less then effective anyways. I like snail mail myself.

It isn't like I am calling people to arms, just looking for them to harass CC.

Which is a call to arms, in itself.


Look, just leave it. It's not your business, and it's none of your business. OPT are the only people that should sort this out, and let them do it in their own time.


D.

I am not pushing anyone to do anything. There is no call to arms. My aim was simply to discuss the option. If they decide to act upon the idea, I figure that is their choice. I never pushed that action be taken by the members. In any post. Don't get me wrong IF a time comes, it would make me happy to see them so involved.


I would hate to be telling the members of this board to do anything. They are all very smart, well informed, and opinionated. Just like free thinkers should be.


I see DarkCheetah seems to get my angle. I would like to know what I am looking to get my finances into. And if my finances go in, I would like to see the companies investments are returned. So if that is the case this issue would be my business.


Legal actions are fine and great and all... but to resolve it without the legal system would save the company a great deal of money and time.
 
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Legal actions are fine and great and all... but to resolve it without the legal system would save the company a great deal of money and time.
But, unfortunately, it's not our place to do that.


Hope this post is functional enough for you. ;)
 
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Email is sometimes less then effective anyways. I like snail mail myself.

It isn't like I am calling people to arms, just looking for them to harass CC.

Which is a call to arms, in itself.


Look, just leave it. It's not your business, and it's none of your business. OPT are the only people that should sort this out, and let them do it in their own time.


D.

I am not pushing anyone to do anything. There is no call to arms. My aim was simply to discuss the option. If they decide to act upon the idea, I figure that is their choice. I never pushed that action be taken by the members. In any post. Don't get me wrong IF a time comes, it would make me happy to see them so involved.


I would hate to be telling the members of this board to do anything. They are all very smart, well informed, and opinionated. Just like free thinkers should be.


I see DarkCheetah seems to get my angle. I would like to know what I am looking to get my finances into. And if my finances go in, I would like to see the companies investments are returned. So if that is the case this issue would be my business.


Legal actions are fine and great and all... but to resolve it without the legal system would save the company a great deal of money and time.
I think what prometheus is getting at is that CC (being a shady lying american company) may not be right in screwing us all, however given their past performance they could just as easily default on their agreement with OP if they felt harassed. You know, because we americans have trouble taking criticism...especially businesses.
 
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Something was bugging me, so I just had to go and look it up...


I was remembering correctly: People bashing CircuitCo. here on the forum has caused problems before. If that's caused problems before, when people were saying things *here*, I can only imagine what a call to directly harass them as spoken about above would do, since the team apparently need to retrieve their parts from there, now.
 
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Something was bugging me, so I just had to go and look it up...


I was remembering correctly: People bashing CircuitCo. here on the forum has caused problems before. If that's caused problems before, when people were saying things *here*, I can only imagine what a call to directly harass them as spoken about above would do, since the team apparently need to retrieve their parts from there, now.
Though it seems odd they had time to peruse our forums back then but didn't have the time to produce boards. LMAO I agree though that people should just let OP handle CC. Even if they did decide to get serious about things it's not going to happen from someone who really doesn't have much knowledge on the business side of OP. In fact I'd wager they'd just hang up on the person and be really pissed off by the call in general.
 
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I think what prometheus is getting at is that CC (being a shady lying american company) may not be right in screwing us all, however given their past performance they could just as easily default on their agreement with OP if they felt harassed. You know, because we americans have trouble taking criticism...especially businesses.
So very, very true.

Something was bugging me, so I just had to go and look it up...


I was remembering correctly: People bashing CircuitCo. here on the forum has caused problems before. If that's caused problems before, when people were saying things *here*, I can only imagine what a call to directly harass them as spoken about above would do, since the team apparently need to retrieve their parts from there, now.
I will address the last sentience at the end...


I read the thread, 6 pages. Some funny stuff. Some very informative, and rather interesting arguments. i didn't know about the nub delay effecting their ability to do their job. To bad they didn't say anything to ED. I threw a few things I saw interesting below. I didn't want to clutter my post to much, And I don't want to dredge up the issues that were very thoroughly covered. But I wanted to grab a few things.


ED said:


Please, do NOT bash against CircuitCo here. If you want to discuss about any issue, please do so in an appropriate manner.


Me:


I think so far this has all been a rather appropriate discussion. So I feel justified.


ED said:


Yes, I also don't like that we have been told they were working on the boards - but maybe they had a reason for telling us so?


Me:


ED you are such trusting man.


ED said:


If all they had been waiting for was the nubs and the production continues work flawlessly now, there is NO REASON to stop working with them or be angry against them.


Me:


And ED you are so very, very kind.


Grig said


"In the industy, companies have a large amount of cash to make a project. They can try and fail on some parts, they can put in competition several suppliers. If a supplier does not respect deadlines, they have sufficient money to switch to another supplier and meanwhile launch costly and long legal action against the first one, who signed a contract with constraints because it was interested in the juicy contract.


OP is a community financed project. Well, events proved this concept wrong: they don't have enough cash to make mistakes, they can't switch easilly, and therefore are sent to the bottom of the priority list of suppliers because they are not a threat."


I agree with this argument. And I would like to build upon one point. The idea is the current mind set, BUT it doesn't have to be this way. As this excerpt points out, OP is a community project. And though OP is just a tiny company, the community isn't. I believe we have a unique opportunity to cause change. To band together and protect our communities investments.


I read into that board that the previous board was removed because ED had said something. Then the community responded aggressively. I never got to read the topic, but I would guess that was a bad thing. ED can't do that. Not as an owner of OPT. I still believe we can and we may want to. Prometheus stated that OP still needs to get it's parts back. As far as I am concerned that is my decision maker. If they come though and don't cause any trouble, I will be happy, assuredly I will cause them no major grief. If they try to screw this company any more then they have, I believe I will have something to say. Perhaps much to say. But as I said in one of my first posts. CC still has a chance to redeem themselves, at least partially. I would love to see it.
 
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With any luck, at least that part will go smoothly! :)


Anyway, if you're interested in reading it, the thread that was referenced in the provided link is here - it was only locked, not removed. ED didn't do or say anything wrong - I gather that it was entirely the response from some of the community that apparently caused problems.


I don't wish to dredge it up, as you might imagine, so please note that this link is only provided for historical informational purposes. :p
 
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