An Addition To The Conspiracy Stupidity

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Advanced Member
Jan 31, 2006
ARGH! I really took a lot of time to write this and when I wanted to post it, the thread was closed. Just wanted to add a few things especially some thoughts on anti-americanism and fascism which is being redundantly used to make the US look bad while they are NOT a fascist country...
You may close this thread immediately, I do not want to spawn another discussion.

OMFG this is again one of those discussions... I must confess now, I am an anarchist activist and I had to deal with shit speculations like that a lot in the scene. I am from Germany and the anti-american BS that you can hear on the streets here pretty much overlaps with this, too. I think the threat of terrorism is imminent and also there. It is arguable what needs to be done against terrorism and what to do to improve foreign relations with countries that feel somehow bothered by the US. It is also arguable that G. W. Bush is an ass but he is certainly not a fascist aswell as the US are not a fascist nation. As an anarchist I do neither believe in governments nor in nations and borders but in the current situation and living conditions this is nothing for me to change. I am part of this aswell as everyone else on the planet. Just making sure that I don't receive any "bash-the-oh-so-stupid-idealist" flames here...

All the speculations about 9/11 are pretty much useless. Certain religious groups can prove to you the exact same way that god has left earth, that creationism is true and probably also that jesus is reborn in Mickey Mouse if they wanted to. This whole conspiracy theory thing that somebody faked the whole incident and that there is a certain lobby of people that have an interest in attacking their own country or shit like that is a classic structurally anti-semitic construction. It supports the theory of a jewish world domination council or something similar that is supposed to control the events in the world from out the hegemonial situation of the USA... big shit if you ask me. Maybe you didn't intend on supporting this idea, it's still based on stuff like that.

I am strongly opposed to governments, aswell as I believe that the US have done a lot of killing in a direct and indirect manner. I do also believe that the US are responsible for freeing Germany from the German Nazis, saving Europe and also liberating the Iraq. How the latter has been achieved is a thing we could argue endlessly about. Fact is that it has not been done in a legitimate way.
Criticism should never be based on loose and shady conspiracy theories. Also it should not be one-sided and abbreviated. The whole "oil for the US" theory is abbreviated and too short-sighted. There is so many aspects of a war that you can't just sum up like that. Ofcourse oil is important, but also as Bush for example is a strong believer in the christian religion I think he truly has humanitarian ambitions eventhough he might not fully realize that he is damaging more than helping. Furthermore it is necessary to see that Bush is not the only one planning and executing the policies and he is not the one going into war. There is a huge council of senators that back him up and do stuff for him. hundreds of thousands of people do government services, organize, investigate and also there is the huge military apparatus. Do you think it is all these people's intend to gain world domination and to cause evil? WTF? Of course not! All this "evil-scheme" scenario just doesn't work out in reality. If you believe that there is a conspiracy behind it all, you might aswell be part of it. There is no evil council of evil-doers behind the USA...

Anti-americanism is something stupid, as noone is free of guilt. Governments do evil things, capitalism kills people and we are all part of it. Every pair of shoes that I buy might be killing children in Cambodia indirectly. We do need oil but also the islamistic fundamentalist hate the so called free world and they certainly are responsible for that attack.

A few thoughts on that "14 points of fascism" page: Bullshit...
Fascism is a very well defined term. The three (!!!) points of fascism that need to be there to define a nation as fascist or a different kind of institutional construction as fascist are the following:
1. nationalism... yes every nation has patriots and needs patriotism to exist.
2. militarism... this means that the whole society is planned to serve for the military. Not the case in the US. in fascist Italy and Germany, all non government organisations were included into the centralized government and militarized in structure, discipline and also built to serve in times of war. All youth organizations were forbidden and assimilated, restructured as militaristic organizations just like the hitler-youth for example.
3. Chauvinism... I don't see any laws or governmental organizations in the US that train women from their birth on to be mothers and to serve the men... Also I have never heard of woman not being involved in government institutions or the state glorifying motherhood as the highest goal for a woman in propaganda movies...

There also needs to be the concept of leadership found in the so called "Führerprinzip" or leadership-principle which orientates the state towards a single person, the dictator, who is glorified and made a practical god if you wanna call it that... this was done with mussolini and also hitler... so where are all the children with George Bush action figures???

Also a totalitarian dictatorship is needed for a fascist nation to work. All other opinions are not allowed as in "you say george Bush stinks and you are going to a jail in texas" and the media is state controlled only... maybe the media is strongly biased but certainly not by the government.

So please be carefull when using fascism as a comparison since you are relavating the bad that Germany has done to the world... this is not even slightly given within the actions of the USA.

Also read up on communism. There is a lot of communists I work with, in fact my dad is one. Communism is NOT Stalinism. My Dad was imprisoned and prosecuted by the UdSSR for being a marxist and not believing the totalitarian crap they were trying to feed people in the GDR. And he is working as a psychaetrist, treating people in a capitalistic world without any concern... all this stuff about communism being the evil of the world should have grown old since the 60'ies and McCarthy shouldn't it? I am of course always in political conflict with the commies because of being a libertarian but there is a lot of stuff that they say and do which is quite intelligent. People who set communism equal to fascism make me sick (which you didn't ofcourse do).

Rant ended... case rested...
I didn't read all of that ... just skimmed it quick ... y'see, I too am of the anarchist mentality, but also a member of the GP32x community ... a place where we share ideas, help folks, learn stuff and play old-school games (as well as awesome homebrew) on our favorite 'underground' handhelds.

I closed the last topic to keep this place politics-free (as much as I can with my limited 'power').

And yes, we all have the right to express our views, but remember ... this is not public property ... It's Hando's domain, and thus, his property. We (the mods) volunteered to keep things running smoothly ... the last topic was reported (and not just by me) and it was in my opinion that more hurt feelings and anger would come from it instead of calm, intelligent discussion.

(There may have been some confusion about my Brother-in-law ... he wasn't killed; it was my co-workers in the basement swithchrooms that were ... he's still suffering from bad memories and such, having seen several bodies fall in front of him, people on fire ...)
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