Why All The Discourse?

[Epicenter]

Bingo. A prime example is France, where there is loads of resentment towards Americans after we liberated them in WWII

The way you liberate is great, lets kill a few hundred thousand civilians(or millions in ww2) and expect them to be happy, brilliant!
Its not always the (pretended) goal that's wrong, but the way you get there.

I suppose in your version of history, we nuked most major French cities then sent in highly efficient, trained Rape Squads to violate and execute survivors.

You'd be surprised. I've heard accounts from appreciative citizens who lived in parts of Germany that were bombed practically into the stone age, thanking the Allies for defeating the Nazis. You'd EXPECT resentment there. It's certainly regrettable, but we weren't nearly as accurate as today (where you'd have to drop a thousand bombs around an area to guarantee hitting one, say, ammunition factory.. unlike today where it's one target, one bomb.)

I guess the tens if not hundreds of thousands killed in German bombing campaigns including terror bombing of England don't count. Nor the millions of innocent Jews, Homosexuals and others executed relentlessly during the war. No, no, Americans were the real butchers of World War II. :rolleyes: And we just nuked 2 Japanese cities for no reason. They totally didn't attack us first without a formal declaration of war, and they certainly weren't invading China, raping and murdering huge quantities of civilians (fun fact, the rape of Nanking is conveniently omitted from Japanese history books. Most of World War II is often passed over, too, making it sound like we really did just nuke them out of the blue one day.)

Food for thought. And on that note, I need some real actual food. back later.

 

[Vimacs]

stop stop stop, i didn't say that the Nazis where not worse, I just say that you cant relay expect civilians to like you after you killed thousands of them end destroyed everything they had.

And dropping atom bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima is to me one of the biggest military crimes recent in history, I'm sure your government would have been sued as mass murders and would have get death pinality, IF usa wouldn't have won the war after that and there would have been a curt process.

My point is that many of the charges of the Nuremberg Trials could have been applied to the us leadership as well.

 

[fawny]

stop stop stop, i didn't say that the Nazis where not worse, I just say that you cant relay expect civilians to like you after you killed thousands of them end destroyed everything they had.

And dropping atom bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima is to me one of the biggest military crimes recent in history, I'm sure your government would have been sued as mass murders and would have get death pinality, IF usa wouldn't have won the war after that and there would have been a curt process.

My point is that many of the charges of the Nuremberg Trials could have been applied to the us leadership as well.

Too true. One atomic device over a remote military base would have got the message across. But TWO heavily populated cities is truly disturbing.

Another reason America is resented is its constant posturing and propaganda surrounding its role in the second world war. You would think they were the only nation standing up to the Nazi evil. Unlike Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Britain who declared war within days of the invasion of Poland, America wandered into the fray only after war was declared on them.

Up until then the likes of Bush's grand-daddy were too busy selling munitions to the Third Reich to be concerned with the Nazi invasions.

Roosevelt realised that Russia would gain a significant advantage in the carve up of Europe after the war was won and wanted to have his own military presence in the aftermath. However Roosevelt was a sick, old man and when the time came, he overrode Churchill's concerns regarding Stalin and gave us the Iron Curtain and a generation of Cold War.

And don't forget it is only this year that Britain has finally finished paying off loans made by the U.S. during the war. All this time Britain has been paying because they did the right thing and stood up against Hitler. And America has been earning interest on it.

 

[Alex.]

And we just nuked 2 Japanese cities for no reason.

Indeed you did. Russian troops would have been there to finish off the last of Jap resistance in a mere six days, but that wouldn't have been good for America's image of world conqueror. Political wrestling at its best. You know that they wanted to nuke a third city, too, but by that time the Japs officially gave up and you eventually let that plan slide.

Airman, you say? No wonder you're programming a shooter game Did you have to pass those high-G tests?

- Alex

 

[Epicenter]

And we just nuked 2 Japanese cities for no reason.

Indeed you did. Russian troops would have been there to finish off the last of Jap resistance in a mere six days, but that wouldn't have been good for America's image of world conqueror. Political wrestling at its best. You know that they wanted to nuke a third city, too, but by that time the Japs officially gave up and you eventually let that plan slide.

I can't say whether the Russians would have actually taken action, and if they'd have so easily 'finished off' Japan. At any rate, there's reason to believe the bombs saved lives. Their dramatic effect brought a rapid surrender when faced with a force the nation had never seen before-- there was immense resistance to what was expected, an invasion (one was planned by the US if Japan did not surrender.) There was an army of civilians guarding the shores, even young teenagers and the elderly.. with bamboo spears. There is no doubt it would have been a slaughter when an invasion took place-- American or Russian. The cost of lives from the 2 atomic bombs was arguably lower than it would have been if there were an invasion due to the conditioning by the Japanese government, telling them that the Americans were going to kill all civilian men, and rape all the women. There was a great deal of suicide prior to the bombings in anticipation of such an invasion, in fact. The government's statements were widely believed-- Emperor Hirahito had made claims that he ruled by divine right, a claim he withdrew shortly after the surrender. Bombing Japan was definitely not a move for pride or just a show of force, it had a decisive military role-- and it underwent significant consideration, it was not a rash tactic. And the goal was not to kill a lot of civilians-- it was to end the war. We dropped leaflets first warning civilians to leave the area, and there was a delay before the second bomb was dropped, along with a warning to surrender. Had it been just an attack to kill a lot of people, there would be no leaflets, no warnings, just lots of atomic bombs dropped. Also consider the targets, Hiroshima and Nagasaki-- of considerable importance to the military effort in Japan. If the goal were civilian casualties a city like Tokyo would have been a more suitable target-- such a target was not chosen.

Another reason America is resented is its constant posturing and propaganda surrounding its role in the second world war. You would think they were the only nation standing up to the Nazi evil. Unlike Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Britain who declared war within days of the invasion of Poland, America wandered into the fray only after war was declared on them.

I don't recall any official statement from the US claiming to have won the war singlehandedly. Nor any propaganda to suggest anything of the sort. We were following an isolationist policy until we were declared war upon, yes-- I don't approve of that, but these were different times and a lot of factors were involved. We were already clearly not neutral as we were providing war material to Britain.[/quote]

Up until then the likes of Bush's grand-daddy were too busy selling munitions to the Third Reich to be concerned with the Nazi invasions.

Wow, you actually believed that fairy tale? Do you believe 9/11 was an inside-job committed by Bush-and-Pals and the CIA too? Or that it's a big scheme for the Jews and the One World Nation and Zionist Conspiracy to take over the planet?

Airman, you say? No wonder you're programming a shooter game Did you have to pass those high-G tests?

A lot of other training, but not tests for tolerance to G-forces, since I do not personally pilot aircraft. Shooters have actually always been a passion of mine actually...

 

[Vimacs]

had it been just an attack to kill a lot of people, there would be no leaflets, no warnings, just lots of atomic bombs dropped.

There was nothing of that sort...

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

i'm american, but i think all indo-europeans are cool.
I miss ussr. they kept the US from conquering the world.

I have reported you. I don't find you're member title, signature, or avatar funny. Or your member name for that matter. Go to a neo nazi forum to spew that shit, asshole :angry:

 

[Azalin]

i'm american, but i think all indo-europeans are cool.
I miss ussr. they kept the US from conquering the world.

I have reported you. I don't find you're member title, signature, or avatar funny. Or your member name for that matter. Go to a neo nazi forum to spew that shit, asshole :angry:

Quite. This is disturbing me greatly, the fact that people like this are coming here. :angry:

 

[Draken]

I don't know many americans in person, but I watch tv and for some reason we frequently get american reality tv programs on our channel, (and not to mention mtv) which doesn't help.

Also, I've been in several discussions like there were at one time someone said "They pretend like they control the world and have all the power." Everytime, there were a few that replied with "But that is true! If you like it or not, we do!"

All this helped in forming a nice cliché view on the American people and their lifestyle.

Also, as a reaction to the person that mentioned Japan and seppuku. I don't know were you read that about the dolfin torture (there are a lot of nice rumors on asian people, such as using futus as food, which many pepole believed), but seppuku is in short -suicide-. There aren't any cases of suicide in America...?

As for having respect for life... I believe a man is free to do whatever he wants with his own life.

 

[Instantjewmix]

i'm american, but i think all indo-europeans are cool.
I miss ussr. they kept the US from conquering the world.

I have reported you. I don't find you're member title, signature, or avatar funny. Or your member name for that matter. Go to a neo nazi forum to spew that shit, asshole :angry:

Woah, this is getting out of control. I don't beleive in what ever the hell that stuff is either (hell, i'm even a jew) but you shouldn't cut people off that way. He is allowed to have his freedom. That includes the same ones you have i.e. speech, press, religeo, etc. This thread is off topic in the first place. Just relax a little. If this thread gets too out of hand, i will have to report my own thread for deletion.

 

[CABBAGES]

I think its daft how america are always tryin to stop countries making nukes coz they say they might use them against another country when america is the only country ever to do that !

Also about religion anyone here actually a practising catholic jew jehovahs wittness ect. ? If so i take it you goto church or whatever your religion gos to every week or day or whatever ? Coz i hate people saying they are a certain religion then they never go to church or whatever it is and do things against there religion. It pisses me off !


Asians are the best people in the world well the asian women are !

 

[fawny]

Nor any propaganda to suggest anything of the sort.

You are not familiar with Hollywood ?

We were already clearly not neutral as we were providing war material to Britain.

We know. We have just finished paying for it.

Up until then the likes of Bush's grand-daddy were too busy selling munitions to the Third Reich to be concerned with the Nazi invasions.

Wow, you actually believed that fairy tale? Do you believe 9/11 was an inside-job committed by Bush-and-Pals and the CIA too? Or that it's a big scheme for the Jews and the One World Nation and Zionist Conspiracy to take over the planet?

Prescott Bush was on the board of directors of UBC which was seized under the Trading With the Enemy Act in 1942 - One of many accounts. Why do you not believe it ? It has been so widely reported by mainstrem news sources - even Fox - you must forgive me for giving it some credence.

You are an arse for trying to lump my statement in with the conspiracy theorists without presenting some contrary evidence that it is a 'fairy tale'. Pathetic.

 

[Azalin]

I wonder why IBM was never penalized for selling it's counting machines to the Nazi's...

 

[Epicenter]

had it been just an attack to kill a lot of people, there would be no leaflets, no warnings, just lots of atomic bombs dropped.

There was nothing of that sort...

My apologizes for one inaccuracy; leafleting of Japanese cities was done after Hiroshima (August 6 1945).. but before Nagasaki was bombed. Got my facts mixed up there. There were still warnings after Hiroshima. After no reponse from Japan the 2nd bomb was dropped (August 9 1945). Leaflets PRIOR to Hiroshima's bombing contained no direct mention of atomic weaponry but did state:

" The might that now converges on Japan is immeasurably greater than that which, when applied to the resisting Nazis, necessarily laid waste to the lands, the industry and the method of life of the whole German people. The full application of our military power, backed by our resolve, will mean the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland..."

"...We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction."

Translation of one of the leaflets dropped after Hiroshima's bombing:
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/s...04_06-02_01.jpg

With the intensity of the bombing campaigns against Japan, it would likely have been trivial to simply drop several if not DOZENS of these weapons on Japanese cities in a very short period of time. 2 was showing restraint, especially days apart. And with warning.

You are not familiar with Hollywood ?

I've seen a LOT of WW2 movies. Most of them glorify the role of the allies, not just the US. I have the utmost respect for everyone fighting alongside the US in WW2, and no film has decreased such sentiments, only increased them. Also, the best-made, most factual war movies do not come from Hollywood-- just an FYI.

 

[Anbu_2]

The problem is, where were the people of Nagasaki supposed to go? Dropping said leaflets does not resolve the US from being guilty of a heinous act, sorry. Not only that, but would you listen to the govt of a foreign country? I doubt it.

The US was the only nation who profited from WW2, in the form of reparations. In other words, the world has already shown its gratitude.

The frequent use of phrases like "The Greatest nation on Earth", "Leader of the Free World" and "God Bless America" really doesn't help the US' image.

Don't get me wrong, Britain has been responsible for some the worst crimes against humanity, the difference is were not viewed as being arrogant.

 

[Epicenter]

Perception and reality are two different things. I've seen a great deal of British media flaunting a superior attitude as has been described of American media. For example, I cannot count the number of condescending reports I've seen by the BBC that included such things as polls stating that most Americans cannot find the US on a map. Then there's the whole 'feud' with the French-- e.g. irritation in the UK that French TV broadcasts are picked up is reponded to by naming a station that within France's reception range 'Waterloo' (Napoleanic war pun.) I know the British people aren't really so arrogant as to consider themselves superior to the rest of the world, but some people could percieve such things, as they do about the US. To think the US is by and large of the opinion that they are the only nation on Earth and won WW2 singehandedly and other nonsense are closed-minded fools, bottom-line. To regard them as more than a minority would just be stereotyping.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

i'm american, but i think all indo-europeans are cool.
I miss ussr. they kept the US from conquering the world.

I have reported you. I don't find you're member title, signature, or avatar funny. Or your member name for that matter. Go to a neo nazi forum to spew that shit, asshole :angry:

Woah, this is getting out of control. I don't beleive in what ever the hell that stuff is either (hell, i'm even a jew) but you shouldn't cut people off that way. He is allowed to have his freedom. That includes the same ones you have i.e. speech, press, religeo, etc. This thread is off topic in the first place. Just relax a little. If this thread gets too out of hand, i will have to report my own thread for deletion.

I'm jewish as well. I'm sorry, but major offensive content has no place here. That's why it was removed.

Carry on.

 

[Vimacs]

hmmm, shouldn't your avatar be kyle then?

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

Yeah but kyle is gay. Everyone knows, it's butters!

 

[Alex.]

Azalin, what the fuck are you doing opening topics like the genocide one? Are you mentally defective or something, for fuck's sake, "selective genocide"? "Mercy genocide"? Take that trash back to the Slipzone, for the past days these forums had quite a few such shitty topics

Told you, it comes with the popularity of the 2x...

- Alex