When Do We See A Finished Pandora?

[WizardStan]

Once again I'd direct you to the Transfeers Transfers thread.
Craig, explicity outlines, that they cannot take that volume of sales on CC without something to ship (hence the terrible idea of a £200 CD being floated).

Its not the law, no. But it is one of the things banks look out for.
When the bank saw several million transfered into the newly formed companies bank account it set alarm bells ringing.
They look into it and discover that its all for something which doesn't exist, more alarm bells start rining once again and the money is locked.
Like I've said about 6 times, this would have happened at any time.
Financial crisis doesn't come into it, its just the banks are a little panicky when a brand new company takes a TON of money for something which as far as they can see isn't real.

Except, as I just said, it hasn't caused problems in the past. It did THIS time, which is the problem, and the only correlation that appears to exist is the global economy. Maybe they were just unlucky this time, and set off just the wrong type of alarm that got things frozen, and it really does have nothing to do with the economy, but it wasn't just because the product didn't exist yet. Why else would they have been permitted to take credit card orders for previous pre-release products, yet now they cannot?

 

[MaxSteiner]

Have you ever ordered preordered stuff from a newly formed company which has just recieved a couple of million in the space of a day Wizardstan?

No you haven't, so its not the same sittuation is it?

 

[sold]

CC payments. Once again would have occured without the financial crisis. They just cannot be used to take payment for something which doesn't ship in 30 days (as was finally admited).

Bollocks. Since when do credit cards require item shipment in 30 days? I've preordered plenty of things by CC that took longer than that to be ready. The banks never cared where and how cards were used; just that they got their cut. In this case, the *destination bank*, not the card companies was the one to throw the wrench in the works.

Stop trying to come up with excuses to blame the Pandora devs, just because you can't bitch at the people who really are at fault.


I agree. There was no real reason for any of the bullshit the bank caused. I payed up by CC a couple of hours into the preoder day and was refunded when the shit hit the fan even though I would have preferred Craigix and ED and MW etc. to keep my money and send me a Pandora whenever it was ready. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person here upset because of the bank issue. BTW, it took more than a month after I received my refund email for the funds to be returned. So the 30 pre-order bollocks people keep speaking is utter crap. I didn't even get my money back in 30 days.

I hope there is an update with a finished Pandora soon just so I know the world financial crisis and the banking dilemma didn't hurt this project. I can hardly wait for the second batch.

 

[MaxSteiner]

bwahahaha

no, sorry about that.
If thats your personal opinion and all that, feel free to believe it.
Personally though, I think anytime people point to one thing and label that as the sole source of evil and missery in the world they're talking bullshit.

 

[sold]

Well, I don't mean to be rude, but you made negative sense just then. I mean negative as in less than zero, and zero is a usually the smallest amount of sense one can make

It's not about evil, it's about inconvenience. There was no reason for the bank to refuse payment.

 

[MaxSteiner]

Might I suggest I made negative sense there, because you are a window licker, and cannot read?
(I am trying to be rude lol)

====> in response to your recent edit:
So let me get this straight, you honestly cannot see why a bank would refuse a ton of payments for which they would be liable, made to a newly formed company, for a device which wont even exist for a couple of months at best, let alone ship?!?!?!!?
bwahahaha

 

[sold]

No, I read your comment and I don't understand where you were coming from. Perhaps you were dropped at birth. I understand that newborns can be rather slippery. That and an uncoordinated midwife may be the reason why you are now a dumbass.

EDIT: in response to your recent edit, banks exists to make money using their money and other people's money, so no, I don't understand why they would shy away from a million plus dollars. It's all about the money.

And stop with the stupid laugh, it make you look like an ass.

 

[WizardStan]

Have you ever ordered preordered stuff from a newly formed company which has just recieved a couple of million in the space of a day Wizardstan?

No you haven't, so its not the same sittuation is it?

No, not exactly the same situation, although I understand the GP2X release came close. That's why I say "Maybe they were just unlucky this time, and set off just the wrong type of alarm that got things frozen, and it really does have nothing to do with the economy". I didn't discount the possibility, no matter what my opinion might be.
You, on the other hand, flat out stated that the economy had nothing to do with it, and that it would have happened even in less hard times, despite suggestions to the contrary. Please don't make serious statements of absolute fact.
For the record, I'm none too happy with those stating as fact that it is the economy, but singled you out because you appear to be using your "fact" for the singular purpose of being contrary, and stirring up trouble.

 

[darkblu]

For the record, I'm none too happy with those stating as fact that it is the economy, but singled you out because you appear to be using your "fact" for the singular purpose of being contrary, and stirring up trouble.

don't you know? maxSteiner uses only facts in his arguments, and those who fail to see that were dropped at birth.

 

[sold]

Dude, I was agreeing with pelrun. But thanks anyway for referencing my joke

 

[MaxSteiner]

No, I read your comment and I don't understand where you were coming from. Perhaps you were dropped at birth. I understand that newborns can be rather slippery. That and an uncoordinated midwife may be the reason why you are now a dumbass.

Oh wow, you must be really sharp and witty to clumsily rearrange my insult and post it back to me!
(Sorry if English isn't your first language!)

===> At wizard stan well part of my intent is to cause trouble, since the best way to combat the most rabid of fanboys is to mock them mercilessly (Not claiming you are though, you've always struck me as fairly with it), but I honestly don't think you can just point to the recession and say thats the SOLE reason the bank refused payment.
Furthermore I am off the opinion that if you replayed the Pandora preorder, and the only thing to change was that the Pandora WAS shipping in 30 days, the bank wouldn't have refused credit.
Hell, if you replayed the entire preorder once again, but had us laying down only £50-100 each, I have a sneaking suspicion that would have gone through too.
The simple fact is, tons of people paying full wack for a device which exists only in renders is risky.

Was the bank being more cautious than normal? Perhaps, but they would have been concerned with these events anyway.
Also most of the banks response was entirly automated wasn't it? so the nervous dispossition of a banker would have had no affect in the decision anyway.

(Added to which, Craig did pretty much confirm this version of events didn't he?)

I'm just a little bit bored of people paroting the exact same things over and over without putting any single thought into whats happened.
The banks have been blamed the whole way through this, and I don't really think they over-reacted that much with hindsight.
Its annoying yes, but thats just the way it is.

None of this impugns the great work thats going on behind the scenes, the Pandora really will be an incredible device.
Its just I happen to think that the entire preorder process was badly handled (again fully acceptable in a 6 person project), and things could have played out very differently if things were handled better on both sides of the divide/

 

[sold]

No, I read your comment and I don't understand where you were coming from. Perhaps you were dropped at birth. I understand that newborns can be rather slippery. That and an uncoordinated midwife may be the reason why you are now a dumbass.

Oh wow, you must be really sharp and witty to clumsily rearrange my insult and post it back to me!
(Sorry if English isn't your first language!)

===> At wizard stan well part of my intent is to cause trouble, since the best way to combat the most rabid of fanboys is to mock them mercilessly (Not claiming you are though, you've always struck me as fairly with it), but I honestly don't think you can just point to the recession and say thats the SOLE reason the bank refused payment.
Furthermore I am off the opinion that if you replayed the Pandora preorder, and the only thing to change was that the Pandora WAS shipping in 30 days, the bank wouldn't have refused credit.
Hell, if you replayed the entire preorder once again, but had us laying down only £50-100 each, I have a sneaking suspicion that would have gone through too.
The simple fact is, tons of people paying full wack for a device which exists only in renders is risky.

Was the bank being more cautious than normal? Perhaps, but they would have been concerned with these events anyway.
Also most of the banks response was entirly automated wasn't it? so the nervous dispossition of a banker would have had no affect in the decision anyway.

(Added to which, Craig did pretty much confirm this version of events didn't he?)

I'm just a little bit bored of people paroting the exact same things over and over without putting any single thought into whats happened.
The banks have been blamed the whole way through this, and I don't really think they over-reacted that much with hindsight.
Its annoying yes, but thats just the way it is.

None of this impugns the great work thats going on behind the scenes, the Pandora really will be an incredible device.
Its just I happen to think that the entire preorder process was badly handled (again fully acceptable in a 6 person project), and things could have played out very differently if things were handled better on both sides of the divide/



I'm not quite sure if I love or hate you BTW my retort was not clumsy Well, at least not as clumsy as the midwife that delivered you

 

[MaxSteiner]

Yeah thats the general effect I have on people

 

[WizardStan]

Furthermore I am off the opinion that if you replayed the Pandora preorder, and the only thing to change was that the Pandora WAS shipping in 30 days, the bank wouldn't have refused credit.
Hell, if you replayed the entire preorder once again, but had us laying down only £50-100 each, I have a sneaking suspicion that would have gone through too.
The simple fact is, tons of people paying full wack for a device which exists only in renders is risky.

We're in total agreement on that. You're right, it isn't just the economy, it was all the events that surrounded it. But I'd be willing to bet that 10 years ago, during much stronger times, if the circumstances had otherwise been the exactly the same (accounting for differences of inflation and technology) that the bank wouldn't have frozen the account. Watched it with trepidation perhaps, ready to hit the switch if anything else went wrong, but not frozen it outright. That's the opinion I believe people are trying to express, even if they're not doing it very eloquently.

 

[Monk]

Furthermore I am off the opinion that if you replayed the Pandora preorder, and the only thing to change was that the Pandora WAS shipping in 30 days, the bank wouldn't have refused credit.
Hell, if you replayed the entire preorder once again, but had us laying down only £50-100 each, I have a sneaking suspicion that would have gone through too.
The simple fact is, tons of people paying full wack for a device which exists only in renders is risky.

We're in total agreement on that. You're right, it isn't just the economy, it was all the events that surrounded it. But I'd be willing to bet that 10 years ago, during much stronger times, if the circumstances had otherwise been the exactly the same (accounting for differences of inflation and technology) that the bank wouldn't have frozen the account. Watched it with trepidation perhaps, ready to hit the switch if anything else went wrong, but not frozen it outright. That's the opinion I believe people are trying to express, even if they're not doing it very eloquently.

You're almost certainly right - IIRC banking regulations changed after 9/11 and "large sums of money all of a sudden" became a brighter, more dangerous red flag than they had been before (though in the US I don't recall if this was the bank's idea of the governments).

The idea that credit card companies don't like you pre-ordering stuff that never ships isn't a falacy either, though different cards may have differernt durations. 30 days is fairly common in UK business circles. Several of my suppliers can't take credit card details until they have the stock ready to ship, because their accountancy practices are set up to avoid them getting into trouble by taking money and then failing to deliver.

Edit for PS - a FANTASTICALLY quick google brought up exam,ples of other people bitten by the "30 day rule2 - like this one:

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.p...1466#post671466

 

[TaG]

Like I've said about 6 times
Well, at least 6 times.

I'm just a little bit bored of people paroting the exact same things over and over
Me too. So why don't you stop it?

But that isn't what the internet was made for
It's what permabans were made for...

(I am trying to be rude lol)
...to stop people trolling.

I thought you had just confessed in another of your threads to not want a Pandora and are now a happy motherfu#king gp2xer. So you've made your point. We've all read it. Please stop.

 

[Chip]

well part of my intent is to cause trouble, since the best way to combat the most rabid of fanboys is to mock them mercilessly
So you're being a jackass for the sake of being a jackass. It's what I assumed, but it's nice to hear it from you. If you have something constructive to add to the conversation, please do. If your only intent is to make a nuisance of yourself, don't bother - you'll just end up getting yourself banned.

The few valid points you have brought up have been explained repeatedly. Craig has taken preorders for upcoming products in the past and all has gone well. As recently as early September he took Wiz preorders (which still haven't shipped either), and nobody had a problem with it.

We are making a product.
We need to pre-sell this product to pay for manufacturing.
We have a lot of customers who are eager to pre-order this product.

This was all explained to HSBC when they first went loony, but nobody there was interested in facts or reason. They are entirely to blame for not allowing us to do business. They have changed their story several times as to exactly why they are unwilling to honor all the orders we took. The shipping timeframe wasn't even mentioned until well into this whole debacle. They then went on to make the situation infinitely worse by dragging out refunds, which they still haven't finished four months later.

If HSBC had honored the orders you guys placed, none of this would have happened. It's that simple.

 

[Eniko]

well part of my intent is to cause trouble, since the best way to combat the most rabid of fanboys is to mock them mercilessly
It makes me sad that I actually spent time digging up sources and explaining stuff as a response to one of your posts, then. Since I'm just a rabid fangurl and all. Oh well, hopefully that post will still help someone, because it seems I wasted my breath on the likes of you.

 

[Asmo]

Craig has taken preorders for upcoming products in the past and all has gone well. As recently as early September he took Wiz preorders (which still haven't shipped either), and nobody had a problem with it.

That was all on an established (GBAX) account with a pre-existing balance and track record I assume though? From what we've learned, the Pandora account was a new independent entity with no reserves, which would paint it entirely differently in their eyes.

 

[Eolair]

I'm kinda interested to know when and why the plans to avoid a repeat of the gp2x preorder disaster went up in flames.

"We will ONLY take preorders once final production is under way of the 3000 batch."
"We will only take preorders when we know the wait for the customers won't be long, we won't be doing a GPH preorder-then-wait-3-months."

I think these words were forgotten or scrapped somewhere along the line and here we are now. It's quite understandable that some people are disappointed, but hopefully we'll have the Pandora in our hands in a few weeks from now. I'm still patient, just like last time