Volume Slider

[javaJake]

One thing that really really really bugs me about laptops is the fact you can't turn off the volume before it decides to shatter the quiet air with its melodic startup tunes. MacBooks are even worse: even if you have the headphones plug in, the first startup sound still plays through the speakers.

I'd want some way to be able to control the volume in those sort of situations, or at least be able to mute.

 

[Geuben]

One thing that really really really bugs me about laptops is the fact you can't turn off the volume before it decides to shatter the quiet air with its melodic startup tunes. MacBooks are even worse: even if you have the headphones plug in, the first startup sound still plays through the speakers.

I'd want some way to be able to control the volume in those sort of situations, or at least be able to mute.

That always bugs me too. Those digital variable resistors say they can remember the last volume level for 100 years, so that shouldnt be a problem if one of those was used, unless you left it on max when you turned it off. Although this would be independent of the main system so while the pandora was booting you "should" be able to change the volume.

 

[javaJake]

e crude ASCII diagrams):

| [] | ------------- |_{}_|
^Volume Slider ------ ^switch

I really like this. I'd like to hear Craigix's opinion. This would almost be better than a slider or volume wheel on its own.

 

[Geuben]

e crude ASCII diagrams):

| [] | ------------- |_{}_|
^Volume Slider ------ ^switch

I really like this. I'd like to hear Craigix's opinion. This would almost be better than a slider or volume wheel on its own.


TBH I was just throwing ideas around when i suggested that. It wouldn't be a nice looking and simple solution and as DaveC said would probably look "stupid" to other handhelds. I hope Craigix or one of the other guys comes around soon and gives us some feedback on some of the ideas (in particular mine ).

 

[foft]

Lets revisit the requirements:
i) Precision of control.
ii) Consistent across applications.
iii) Ability to hold, so not knocked in pocket.
iv) Control volume at early startup -before OS is up.
v) Cost reasonable
vi) Size
vii) Fits with current design - analogue amp?
viii) Non-volatile.
ix) Available!

Any I've missed?

The options:

CODE

i ii iii iv v vi vii viii ix
Analogue wheel : Y Y N Y Y N Y Y Y : No hold, too large to fit stylus?
10mm Slider : N Y N Y Y Y Y Y N : Only 6mm
6mm Slider : N Y N Y Y Y Y Y Y :
Digital pot : Y Y N Y ? Y Y Y ? : Some unknowns...
Completely digital : Y Y Y N Y Y N N Y : Init in early boot? Store to nand? Redesign amp?
The GP2X way : N N N N Y Y N N Y : Just for reference. No precision, since each app took 1 button to be different.



Hold could be added for all analog options, at cost of space.

 

[Geuben]

snip....

Nice summary, it seems that at nearly $2 each per 1000 the digital pot might be too expensive (will have added cost of buttons etc)

 

[mrsnature]

One thing that really really really bugs me about laptops is the fact you can't turn off the volume before it decides to shatter the quiet air with its melodic startup tunes. MacBooks are even worse: even if you have the headphones plug in, the first startup sound still plays through the speakers.

I'd want some way to be able to control the volume in those sort of situations, or at least be able to mute.

That always bugs me too. Those digital variable resistors say they can remember the last volume level for 100 years, so that shouldnt be a problem if one of those was used, unless you left it on max when you turned it off. Although this would be independent of the main system so while the pandora was booting you "should" be able to change the volume.


Well, just make sure that the pandora doesn't blast you with any sound during boot. I'm assuming settings will be stored, either on internal memory or sd-card, so remembering your volume level shouldn't be a problem (even if there's just a setting to turn off boot sounds!).

IIRC, the boot loader is VERY simple - i.e. enough to load the OS, and as soon as the OS is loading these settings could be restored.

Honestly, hardly any similar modern devices have analogue volume sliders anymore, probably due to size, etc. But a little rocker button would be ideal, and I don't think very hard to program.

People are just weary of another digital volume like on gp2x (which was essentially just two normal buttons with a volume label), but that was just an implementation issue.

 

[Frogboy]

I don't really mindwhich way this one goes. A slider or wheel would be nice when using Pandora as an MP3 player with the lid closed. Other than that, I don't really care what I have to do to change the volume. I'd be fine with pushing the number keys to indicate the volume level.

 

[Squidge]

There will be no startup sounds unless you add one yourself, and then it'll be played when Linux is booted.

Linux will be up in a few seconds.

Problem with digital volume solved

 

[peca]

Just have two slightly indented buttons that are connected to GPIO. The kernel could handle all the volume and locking, so no other software need bother with the volume control. Also, this means that you could press both volume buttons as an instant mute, and press again to slowly increase volume back to original level. The mute could also be broadcast to other software, which could perform a pause functionality for when playing mp3's/etc.

OK, It seems as good idea. I am changing my opinion.

 

[CoMiKe]

2Squidge:
Do you have any info if that decision has been already taken?

I mean, will the Pandora finally have digital volume controls?

It's growing on me. Digital volume control would be better if it's common to all installed software.

 

[Frogboy]

Please don't allow the issues of volume control and headphone jacks hold up Pandora too much. I can't speak for everyone of course but these are both very minor issues to me. The dedicated headphone jack is actually more important to me but still not a huge issue.

I'm not trying to rush anything but I don't want the little stuff holding Pandora back especially since the GP2X F-800 is coming out real soon. :lol: :gp2x

 

[TheLonelyGod]

I'm not trying to rush anything but I don't want the little stuff holding Pandora back especially since the GP2X F-800 is coming out real soon. :lol: :gp2x

Wait the what?

Where did they mention that? Got any links?

 

[fusion_power]

It's growing on me. Digital volume control would be better if it's common to all installed software.

I think the devs made it more than clear that the Pandora WILL hava a ANALOG VOLUME CONTROL! This is one of the main reasons why the Pandora will be much better than the GP2X. I think its useless NOW to start a discussion about crappy digital Volume Control, one of the most annoying things at the GP2X!!!
And NO, there will never be a standard in HOMEBREW Software, if there would be a standard, the GP2X would have correct and perfect digital-volume control (and other things like standardized Buton functions etc...) Nothing against the devs but I think with simple HARDWARE Volume control, they have at least one thing they don't need to be care about. Better or all.

Maybe MWeston or another one from the Team can make it 100% clear for all the funny "digital volume" guys, that the Pandora will have a ANALOG Volume control (and maybe an optional, additional Software volume control here and there)

 

[MWeston]

There will be an analog volume control. You may think digital is cool because everyone does it, but after using some devices (including my laptop) that don't respond to the buttons when I would really want to turn the volume down at the last second (before powering down for example), it is annoying as hell! The Archos 605 blows hard for this very reason! If the screen is off, you have to press a button or tap the screen just to get it to respond AND THEN you have to hit the button again to adjust the volume. I'd rather have the freedom from software to adjust the volume whenever I want. Software volume control can be added on top of the hardware, but you just have to set the dial to whatever the maximum volume will be (dangerous if software suddenly screws up, but still possible to do).

If we go with this thicker battery, there is likely enough height to choose either a slider or a wheel and still slide a stylus in over top of the control. I think the majority of people voted for the slider though.

For some reason, I thought the DS's volume slider had 5mm of travel and so I decided 10mm was good. Now that I actually measured the DS at ~10mm, I would like to find one at 15mm. I have to check each part found one by one to see if it would fit and it would also mean the power switch moves up to the side like the DS lite. It's not that any of these parts are impossibly hard to find, it's more of a case of not speaking Chinese and it is hard to communicate with manufacturers. We had a guy in China who was supposed to do it but has been bailing out on us for months now! Another big problem finding the right part is that it needs to be SURFACE MOUNT soldered due to all the keypad buttons on the other side of the PCB.

 

[teggun]

Can we have a switch on the side that mutes it? almost like a power switch to the speakers.

 

[God Ginrai]

There will be an analog volume control. You may think digital is cool because everyone does it, but after using some devices (including my laptop) that don't respond to the buttons when I would really want to turn the volume down at the last second (before powering down for example), it is annoying as hell! The Archos 605 blows hard for this very reason! If the screen is off, you have to press a button or tap the screen just to get it to respond AND THEN you have to hit the button again to adjust the volume. I'd rather have the freedom from software to adjust the volume whenever I want. Software volume control can be added on top of the hardware, but you just have to set the dial to whatever the maximum volume will be (dangerous if software suddenly screws up, but still possible to do).

If we go with this thicker battery, there is likely enough height to choose either a slider or a wheel and still slide a stylus in over top of the control. I think the majority of people voted for the slider though.

For some reason, I thought the DS's volume slider had 5mm of travel and so I decided 10mm was good. Now that I actually measured the DS at ~10mm, I would like to find one at 15mm. I have to check each part found one by one to see if it would fit and it would also mean the power switch moves up to the side like the DS lite. It's not that any of these parts are impossibly hard to find, it's more of a case of not speaking Chinese and it is hard to communicate with manufacturers. We had a guy in China who was supposed to do it but has been bailing out on us for months now! Another big problem finding the right part is that it needs to be SURFACE MOUNT soldered due to all the keypad buttons on the other side of the PCB.

Just wondering, when was there a vote for Slider versus wheel? Good to hear that the longer-life battery makes room for the slider/wheel. (whichever we do use) Also, I agree with teggun that a mute switch might be nice.

-God Ginra

 

[Zarneth]

For some reason, I thought the DS's volume slider had 5mm of travel and so I decided 10mm was good. Now that I actually measured the DS at ~10mm, I would like to find one at 15mm.
If I'm not mistaken the DS (lite) DOES have 5mm of travel. 6mm to be exact. You want to measure the space left over AFTER the knob, not include the knob in your measurements.

 

[Tobriand]

If we go with this thicker battery, there is likely enough height to choose either a slider or a wheel and still slide a stylus in over top of the control. I think the majority of people voted for the slider though.

For me, the resolution of this issue, and potentially the other headphone connector one would be about the biggest possible arguments for the increased thickness. Assuming, of course, that it actually doesn't make a difference when carrying it around...

 

[Geuben]

There will be an analog volume control. You may think digital is cool because everyone does it, but after using some devices (including my laptop) that don't respond to the buttons when I would really want to turn the volume down at the last second (before powering down for example), it is annoying as hell! The Archos 605 blows hard for this very reason! If the screen is off, you have to press a button or tap the screen just to get it to respond AND THEN you have to hit the button again to adjust the volume. I'd rather have the freedom from software to adjust the volume whenever I want. Software volume control can be added on top of the hardware, but you just have to set the dial to whatever the maximum volume will be (dangerous if software suddenly screws up, but still possible to do).

If we go with this thicker battery, there is likely enough height to choose either a slider or a wheel and still slide a stylus in over top of the control. I think the majority of people voted for the slider though.

For some reason, I thought the DS's volume slider had 5mm of travel and so I decided 10mm was good. Now that I actually measured the DS at ~10mm, I would like to find one at 15mm. I have to check each part found one by one to see if it would fit and it would also mean the power switch moves up to the side like the DS lite. It's not that any of these parts are impossibly hard to find, it's more of a case of not speaking Chinese and it is hard to communicate with manufacturers. We had a guy in China who was supposed to do it but has been bailing out on us for months now! Another big problem finding the right part is that it needs to be SURFACE MOUNT soldered due to all the keypad buttons on the other side of the PCB.

so assuming that space is a very important factor in the choice of a volume control device (going by the reason this thread was started) would the digital variable resistor I suggested be a viable option? It offers the same level of volume choice as analogue (well 1024 is a darn lot!) and i presume the space would not be an problem as the chip is small (i presume) and could be placed anywhere there is space. And it also offers the independence from the kernel (and other problems i.e gp2x) that an analogue contro would.

so, wat do u think?