U. S. 2008 Election Thread

[daclassicgamingmaster]

The Bush administration has basically ruined us.

At this time I don't think Jesus Christ himself (if you believe such a thing) could save us.

You realize that back in the late 1800's during one of our more severe recessions, we were rescued single-handedly by good ol JP Morgan and his obscene amount of money, right? Nothing is ever past the point of no return. I have the utmost confidence in Obama and his picks for his administration.

 

[zaoin]

Osama has fun now. The terrorist wanted that Obama was the president. He was afraid from McCain... <_<

You don't understand, how those things work, believe me
A military moron is the best that could happen to those terrorists, a clean and easy target.
I hope Obama gets diplomacy straight, it's definitely the more effective weapon if you know how to use it.


McCain is not a military moron. And I am very interested about his position about torture.

 

[Phawx]

I am happy as well as concerned.

Obama is a smart, respectful, and pragmatic person. I think that he is the better choice at this time but...

The USA is a mess. The economy is past the point of no return I fear. Businesses are closing and laying off workers, Expect unemployment to reach 10%, the housing market to continue to fall, and the stock markets to continue to collapse. Basically we are headed into a depression. There are just too many problems. Out of control deficit due to two costly wars, bailouts of wallstreet, jobs gone overseas to China, just a sea of red ink everywhere. Trillions of dollars are being borrowed and there is no end in sight. The Bush administration has basically ruined us.

At this time I don't think Jesus Christ himself (if you believe such a thing) could save us.

While I think Obama will try hard to help as much as he can I really don't think there is anything he can really do except maybe to slow down the inevitible collapse slightly. Instead of trying to bail out a sinking ship with a spoon, Obama will use a bucket, but in the end we still sink. What will then happen when the collapse happens on his term is that he will be unfairly blamed for it. The country will be angry and vote back in the Republicans in 4 years continuing the spiral.

I hope I am wrong but all indicators don't look good.

DaveC, it was Clinton's fault in 1999 and the democrats fault in 2003 for subprime mortgages and the reason for the bailouts on wall street. However, George Bush did have an 800 Billion surplus and created a deficit. While he can be blamed for many things, the bailouts is not one. Hell you could go all the way back to when Bush Sr. was a vice president and see the tail end effects its had.

George Bush Jr, while a terrible president, is not the source of EVERYTHING bad in the USA. I mean, seriously...Seriously? I know it cool to be a democrat right now, but when bad shit happens in the future I won't blame everything on Obama. Have a mind of your own.

 

[mali]

Osama has fun now. The terrorist wanted that Obama was the president. He was afraid from McCain... <_<

You don't understand, how those things work, believe me
A military moron is the best that could happen to those terrorists, a clean and easy target.
I hope Obama gets diplomacy straight, it's definitely the more effective weapon if you know how to use it.


McCain is not a military moron. And I am very interested about his position about torture.

Your statement implied, that you wanted to accentuate McCain's military background, that's at least how I understood it, if it is not the case, I apologize.
My point of view is, that everybody who tries to solve these conflicts with military intervention is a moron.
Military superiority is worthless in a global guerilla war. Every killed civilian will spawn two new terrorists.
The new president would do well to consult the UN. The UN should form an internationally legitimized force to stabilize Iraq. That way the USA would get out of the line of fire, that would diffuse the enemy image.
The new president would also do well to help solving the conflict between Palestinians and Israel. That conflict is the main reason, why the whole region doesn't come to rest.
If Obama manages to build up a positive image of the US again, he would deprive the breeding ground for terrorism.

 

[Username]

My point of view is, that everybody who tries to solve these conflicts with military intervention is a moron.
Military superiority is worthless in a global guerilla war. Every killed civilian will spawn two new terrorists.
The new president would do well to consult the UN. The UN should form an internationally legitimized force to stabilize Iraq. That way the USA would get out of the line of fire, that would diffuse the enemy image.
The new president would also do well to help solving the conflict between Palestinians and Israel. That conflict is the main reason, why the whole region doesn't come to rest.
If Obama manages to build up a positive image of the US again, he would deprive the breeding ground for terrorism.

I agree, and seeing as he's a good speaker, he will hopefully be much more able to make negotiations than his predecessors.

 

[DaveC]

DaveC, it was Clinton's fault in 1999 and the democrats fault in 2003 for subprime mortgages and the reason for the bailouts on wall street. However, George Bush did have an 800 Billion surplus and created a deficit.

That is talking point number one - blame Clinton for everything.

Actually the bailout was needed because of rampant deregulation and the Republicans were mostly responsible although both parties had a hand in it.

Bush had a hand in a whole lot that went wrong. Maybe not everything, but most things.

 

[Phawx]

DaveC, it was Clinton's fault in 1999 and the democrats fault in 2003 for subprime mortgages and the reason for the bailouts on wall street. However, George Bush did have an 800 Billion surplus and created a deficit.

That is talking point number one - blame Clinton for everything.

Actually the bailout was needed because of rampant deregulation and the Republicans were mostly responsible although both parties had a hand in it.

Bush had a hand in a whole lot that went wrong. Maybe not everything, but most things.

Dave, you do realize that when I wrote Bush creating a deficit is a bad thing right? I was trying to say, you can't blame everything on one person, I thought I made that clear. No one person can be blamed for EVERY problem in the USA, that would be too easy.

Also The glass steagal's act was REPEALED by Clinton. Clinton Deregulated with this ONE instance. Ultimately, it was because it isn't fair that people with no credit couldn't get a mortgage. So deregulation happened and banks, who are run by people, did whatever greedy people would do.

I never said Clinton is to blame for everything, and I don't think that. I would never be that naive to believe everything could be one person's fault.

 

[closetwam]

Clinton didn't have much of a choice. The Senate passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (the act that repealed parts of the Glass-Steagall Act) by a vote of 90-8 and the House passed it by a vote of 362-57; Veto-proof.

QUOTE
Every killed civilian will spawn two new terrorists.


I suppose you have statistics to back this up.




Edited to be less jerkfacey.

 

[PoisonedV]

Obama has a CHA of, like, 40
i know that i would want to use him in my NWN campaign

 

[Klepto]

It's probably better if I don't comment on matters of politics, suffice it to say that it's a subject I take an interest in. I wish our friends in the US all the best with their new leader. I did however find this amusing

 

[mali]

QUOTE
Every killed civilian will spawn two new terrorists.

I suppose you have statistics to back this up.




I'm fairly up to date with this subject, because I'm very interested in international politics. Before the Iraq war, at least people in Iraq were busy doing other things than thinking about the US. All that is left is pure hate towards the US. It's very easy in those hostile environments to recruit new members for the terrorists. Even in Iran people were slowly drifting towards a more open lifestyle, without burka(don't know the english word) drinking coke and riding skateboards, before Achmadinedschad was elected. His recent reelection may have been prevented, people were very unhappy with his fundamental politics, but the strong enemy image of the US and the accusation regarding nuklear research gave him the ideal foreign-policy topic to keep the country in control.
More alarming is the fact, that more and more apparently normal people that grew up in western states become radical and start to plan assassination attempts. Bush made half of the world angry and the other half shakes its head. Think about the new missiles defense, the russians already announced to point missiles towards the countries, that want to allow the US to position the missiles. I hope Obama scratches the whole project, else we may get Cold War II. The Amarican arms industry would be very happy about that, I suppose.

It's probably better if I don't comment on matters of politics, suffice it to say that it's a subject I take an interest in. I wish our friends in the US all the best with their new leader. I did however find this amusing


:lol:
Great

 

[Phawx]

In response to criticism, President Clinton himself stated:

"I don't see that signing that bill (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act) had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill ... On the Glass-Steagall thing, like I said, if you could demonstrate to me that it was a mistake, I'd be glad to look at the evidence."

Even if it was Veto-proof it doesn't seem like he didn't agree with signing it.

Bush made half of the world angry and the other half shakes its head.

QFT. I couldn't agree more. Truthfully, it's better that Obama is now President. Palin isn't the VP and I actually am thankful that demo's are still slamming her even after the election to make sure no one will want her in 2012. McCain was like Bush, even though he may not like to admit that and Bush was not good for this country. Obama is a minority, so I feel incredibly proud he is now the president. It's like what you always hear, "You try real hard and be the best the you can be and anything is possible. You could even be president." It is very uplifting.

While I may not share a lot of Obama's ideals, he was hands down the better choice. So I hope for the best, but if my taxes go up, it is for the better of our Country.

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

I'm just popping in to say CONGRATULATIONS to all Americans voters here

The first time I've heard about Obama I thought "this guy has not even a chance to become President because he's Black and Americans are a bunch of racists"

I'm glad I've been wrong about you

Bye, Magic Sam

 

[alterdimension]

Hi,

I'm just popping in to say CONGRATULATIONS to all Americans voters here

The first time I've heard about Obama I thought "this guy has not even a chance to become President because he's Black and Americans are a bunch of racists"

I'm glad I've been wrong about you

Bye, Magic Sam



Obama is going to cut defense spending by 25% and will also cut spending for the fbi and cia. You have to ask yourself what would we do without the the military and fbi and cia. 9/11 might happen again only this time it won't be airplanes.

 

[nickspoon]

what would we do without the the military and fbi and cia

Have more of your tax dollars spent on important things like health and education rather than made-up threats like terrorism.

A huge military such as that of the United States is not necessary in a modern world; shrinking it by 25% will not suddenly cause some Middle-Eastern nation to come over and invade. The United States has ample power simply economically and politically, and does not need the force it has to secure that. Cutting 25% of the budget of the armed forces and FBI/CIA will not suddenly cause terrorists to attack more, or be more successful. It's a minuscule threat which has been overblown by the government.

 

[Phawx]

Yea, I am actually in favor of getting rid of the CIA, FBI, IRS...basically any 3 letter acronym the government has come up with. Just a waste of money. Government owned and operated facilities are huge failures.

Also, our education system is a complete failure. And you can fix Health care if you took care of law suits against doctors who need huge premiums and than transfer the cost over to the customer. You need to regulate these lawyers.

Wealth != Opportunity

But whatever, it's human nature to only see one step ahead. This stupid Republican/Democrat non-sense will happen ad nauseum until we reboot our system. Which will never happen.

 

[alterdimension]

what would we do without the the military and fbi and cia

Have more of your tax dollars spent on important things like health and education rather than made-up threats like terrorism.

A huge military such as that of the United States is not necessary in a modern world; shrinking it by 25% will not suddenly cause some Middle-Eastern nation to come over and invade. The United States has ample power simply economically and politically, and does not need the force it has to secure that. Cutting 25% of the budget of the armed forces and FBI/CIA will not suddenly cause terrorists to attack more, or be more successful. It's a minuscule threat which has been overblown by the government.

My granddad a world war II veteran is looking over my shoulder. He is pissed. Afer the U.S. has bailed europe out of two world wars including loss of his blood and his brothers at arms, so you can spout your ingratitued and false views about who the U.S. You Really owe him and his fellow soldiers, Cause you all would be speeking german if it weren't for him and other Americans. You better build up your own national defenses becuase pouring into social programs will not save you from total destruction, be safe then enjoy your social prgrams. And apathy will not bring us over to bail you out again.

 

[raven]

Obama is going to cut defense spending by 25% and will also cut spending for the fbi and cia. You have to ask yourself what would we do without the the military and fbi and cia. 9/11 might happen again only this time it won't be airplanes.

Ever considered that things like 9/11 happen because your military, FBI and CIA keep pissing on other people's territory? Besides, just what did your expensive military and intelligence system do to prevent 9/11 form happening? Apparently the only thing they can do is see weapons of mass destruction that aren't really there...

I know I'm exaggerating a little bit here but this, for instance, is the first president in ages that is willing to start a dialogue, without stating demands first, with Iran and as a result Iran wants to communicate with him. The only way to resolve a conflict is by communication, not by making threats.

Threatening people only works as long as you have the upper hand. It will keep people from attacking you in the open (no direct warfare) but will also make people feel oppressed and oppressed people resort to desperate measures like terrorist attacks...

I'm not defending terrorism and I think 9/11 was a terrible tragedy, but I do think it was a result of US international politics. The USA needs to interact with the planet in a different way and I hope Obama has the courage to lead you in the right direction.

 

[Klepto]

Afer the U.S. has bailed europe out of two world wars including loss of his blood and his brothers at arms

This is a common misconception. The war in Europe was already turning by the time the US entered it. Britain stood pretty much alone against Nazi Germany long enough for the Russians to enter the war, and it was the Russians who turned the tide. The contribution of US forces was an important one, the actions of your servicemen were often heroic and certainly served to shorten the war, but to say that the US won it on our behalf is simply untrue. FDR played a very shrewd game, he kept the US out of the war long enough to destroy the old European colonial empires while still entering in time for the US to claim the lion's share of the spoils.

I find your post offensive, the aggressive assertion of uninformed opinions is one of the reasons that many outside the US feel such animosity towards you.

 

[Phawx]

Afer the U.S. has bailed europe out of two world wars including loss of his blood and his brothers at arms

This is a common misconception. The war in Europe was already turning by the time the US entered it. Britain stood pretty much alone against Nazi Germany long enough for the Russians to enter the war, and it was the Russians who turned the tide. The contribution of US forces was an important one, the actions of your servicemen were often heroic and certainly served to shorten the war, but to say that the US won it on our behalf is simply untrue. FDR played a very shrewd game, he kept the US out of the war long enough to destroy the old European colonial empires while still entering in time for the US to claim the lion's share of the spoils.

I find your post offensive, the aggressive assertion of uninformed opinions is one of the reasons that many outside the US feel such animosity towards you.

There are always two sides to every story and it's funny how things get embellished to show one side more than the other. I'm American and I've heard the story many many times of how America won WW2. Sometimes people just believe whatever they are told. Obviously it was a group effort to win WW2.