The Sun - Animal Cruity Campaign

[geekylad]

It really has no difference what paper this came from because this has now made frontpage news & altough I hate the sun paper I am happy with them for being the paper to actually tell people about this without holding the pictures back, I think people had to see the pictures to really feel for these animals & actually get up & do something about it,


I have always really liked animals & I always take part & do what I can for them (donate to the rainforest protection, PDSA etc)


Anyone that even disputes the actions by these horrible twisted people should get help

 

[Jarska333]

And since when has anyone disputed the actions of those individuals?

The way I see it, human civilization relies too heavily on animals to start treating them equals. And I don't think they should be treated as equals. Animals do feel pain, and anyone causing pain to animals just for fun, should get help. I'm talking about pain beyond basic hunting, or fishing. However, animals aren't sentient. They do not have hopes, or dreams. They do not love, nor do they hate. It's all insticts. They don't write bignosepoetry, except in large groups. (10 monkeys, two typewriters, 8 minutes. )

Animal activism has bad ring to it, and it radiates to anything pro-animal...



Did you know, that the leader (founder?) of PETA, an organization vehemently against testing with animals, requires daily doses of insulin, made with animal testing? :rolleyes:

 

[Klown]

Klown, Your wrong on this one, Animals are just as important on this planet as we are, Its NOT our planet, Animals were here way before us, We evolved from animals & if it wasn't for animals we wouldn't be here today.

I was saying that even if someone kills an animal they should be treated the same as killing a human for the simple reason because its wrong, If someonw can "hang" a dog from a lead on a tree then I wouldn't like to see or think what these sick people could do to a human or child

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Where do you draw the line? Should I be tried for picking the wings off and killing flies? But they're animals and they are important!!! Should I be charged with genocide for destroying the wasps nests outside my house? FUCK NO. You have to draw a line and determine which species are more important than others. Are bactera equal to kittens? Are rats as important as chimps? Hey the chinese eat dog! WHAT THE FUCK THEY SHOULD DIE BECAUSE MY WESTERN, HOUSE OF CARDS BULLSHIT CONFLICTING BELIEFS DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

And just because we seem to be more powerful, does that justify animal cruelty? Using that logic, it would be fine for George Bush to murder and eat you.

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At no point in this thread have I ever said that I stand up for animal cruelty. I'm just laughing at the idiocy of putting animal rights and human rights at the same level.

 

[geekylad]

they might have hopes? how do you know?

 

[Klown]

The more I think about it, the more I despair. This is the populace today. And Klown believes these 'people' are more deserving than animals.



(PS. Why did you feel the need to use the word 'cute' Klown? I am from the country. My Dad was a hunter, and I am a fisherman. But no one could care as much as me about animal welfare, and I figure most of the ones here who support stricter penalties against animal cruelty are the same. The violent activists are idiots, but we are not all like this....)

​

My species may be a terrible waste of space but as i'm part of it i'll defend it to the death.

(PS. Why did you feel the need to use the word 'cute' Klown? I am from the country. My Dad was a hunter, and I am a fisherman. But no one could care as much as me about animal welfare, and I figure most of the ones here who support stricter penalties against animal cruelty are the same. The violent activists are idiots, but we are not all like this....)

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I was highlighting the idea that animal rights advocates usually only talk about cute animals and creatures. Not hideously deformed reptiles and things like that.

 

[Goity]

they might have hopes? how do you know?

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Bacteria also had hopes, till you killed em with bleach this morning! Hang him!!!

 

[Klown]

they might have hopes? how do you know?

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What are you responding to?

 

[Jarska333]

they might have hopes? how do you know?

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I don't. How do you know, that that carrot you ate yesterday didn't have hopes? Maybe it wanted to grow up and become a pumpkin? As far as current human understanding goes, animals are non-sentient, relying on instinct.

For the record, I think dolphins are up to something. <_< h34r:

 

[declaration]

they might have hopes? how do you know?

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I don't. How do you know, that that carrot you ate yesterday didn't have hopes? Maybe it wanted to grow up and become a pumpkin? As far as current human understanding goes, animals are non-sentient, relying on instinct.

For the record, I think dolphins are up to something. <_< h34r:

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when people use the "what about vegetables feelings" argument, you know they are struggling.

Animals communicate with each other. Many animals can understand human instructions. In fact, recent research shows that cows can even get jealous.

 

[Klown]

when people use the "what about vegetables feelings" argument, you know they are struggling.

Animals communicate with each other. Many animals can understand human instructions. In fact, recent research shows that cows can even get jealous.

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Instinct/Training/Basic thought = Complex Sentient thought. If animals were all able to think at the same level as we'd be able to observe it.

 

[lubidog]

Er, my dog has hopes, dreams, aspirations. She loves more than a human could, without artiface or malice. She has a complex personality, and feels mental pain as easily as any human.

But your argument about bacteria is valid. I just hate this "We are the Dominant Species, and we matter more" argument. It brings the debate down to ridicule, like your bacteria comment.

The basic fact is that as the dominent species, we have a duty of care to the planet that we are avoiding. This is one issue. Look at the oil reserve problems the world faces now. We take from the planet, without a thought about tomorrow-fish stocks depleted etc.

The other point is people who argue ridiculously about animal rights. Yes, Peta has done a lot of harm (but wearing fur for fashion is horrible), and ultra aggresive animal rights groups damage the cause further. Would never debate this. There was a case in England recently where some idiots dug up the mother of someone who ran an Animal Testing lab. Horrible.

Also I hate the RSPCA anti hunting campaign. I have never hunted. I think it's cruel. But animal nature is cruel, and the RSPCA adverts with a cute fox saying "I'm backing the ban" fail to mention that that fox will have to be killed another way-shining a torch into it's eyes and smashing the poor bugger over the head, hopefully killing it, but more likely rendering it brain damaged and malignent. Like I said, I come from a village background.

But these all point to the fact that as the evolved species on this planet, and with the mental ability to be able to rationalise our actions and our cruel nature, the fact that we tolerate needless animal cruelty lets down our whole society. Who was it who said that a society can be judged on how they treat their animals...?

 

[Goity]

Then there's the other side of things, like if we left foxes they'd all die of overpopulation.
But dogs can definitely feel jealousy, etc.

 

[Nova]

My dog has aspirations.

Food.

 

[Jarska333]

Instincts and pavlovian reflexes. Nothing more.

when people use the "what about vegetables feelings" argument, you know they are struggling.

Animals communicate with each other. Many animals can understand human instructions. In fact, recent research shows that cows can even get jealous.

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(And unless the bit about carrot dreaming about becoming a pumpkin didn't give it away, that was a joke...) And "understanding" human instructions? Pavlovian! B)

 

[Klown]

Er, my dog has hopes, dreams, aspirations. She loves more than a human could, without artiface or malice. She has a complex personality *snip*

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And how would you know this?

 

[Jarska333]

Very common pet-owner thing. Readers Digest is full of those. "Most animals act on instinct, but our dog was special. Then it was hit by a car." "It seemed as if Cujo could read my mind. He sure was more intelligent than most of humanity."

Which may be true, but that still does not make Cujo smart. :rolleyes:

 

[geekylad]

animals can think in almost the same way as humans just not as advanced, they still think, they dream, lots of things, even fish think, why do you think sea bass (fish) are clever at getting away from nets & why sqiuds are as clever as a dog? & an elephant has batter memory than a human??? lemmings are very thick though, they just jump off cliffs for no reason so don't count lemmings!

 

[Klown]

"We are the Dominant Species, and we matter more"

The basic fact is that as the dominent species, we have a duty of care to the planet that we are avoiding. This is one issue. Look at the oil reserve problems the world faces now. We take from the planet, without a thought about tomorrow-fish stocks depleted etc.

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DING DING DING! I'm not debating that. I'm just sick of this "OMG ANIMALS ARE ON THE SAME MENTAL AND IMPORTANCE LEVEL AS THE OTHER PEOPLE IN MY SPECIES AND THUS SHOULD BE TREATED COMPLETELY THE SAME"

The other point is people who argue ridiculously about animal rights. Yes, Peta has done a lot of harm (but wearing fur for fashion is horrible), and ultra aggresive animal rights groups damage the cause further. Would never debate this. There was a case in England recently where some idiots dug up the mother of someone who ran an Animal Testing lab. Horrible.

Yeah, and remember when those guys released a bunch of minks into the wild who subsequently killed huge populations of other animals? I hate people who protest medical animal testing.

 

[Klown]

animals can think in almost the same way as humans just not as advanced, they still think, they dream, lots of things, even fish think, why do you think sea bass (fish) are clever at getting away from nets & why sqiuds are as clever as a dog? & an elephant has batter memory than a human??? lemmings are very thick though, they just jump off cliffs for no reason so don't count lemmings!

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They have basic reasoning abilities yes, but most are nowhere near the level of humans.

 

[Goity]

And chavs don't count.