The Communication Cube


Speaking of ISIS, a lot of Aussies seem to be migrating over to the Middle East to join ISIS. But then, just as quickly as they left Australia...they come crying back to us begging for mercy and telling us that they want to come back as if they didn't do anything wrong, lol.
ISIS has a branch in every European country too by now, but those are still keeping a low profile.

After I've read in the Quran the first time, I suddenly thought "oh dear, one day they'll actually do the shit that Mohammed ordered them to and that won't be very nice"...

Hopefully someday all the western people will actually begin reading this stuff themselves instead of listening to preachers, so they can actually understand what is really happening.
I have read some of it.  I cannot comment on what I have read since it was translated to English.  Aside from reading a text in a specified language for religious reasons, by reading it in the original language the reader is more likely to get the precise meaning and a better understanding of what is said.  This is also why I try to consult multiple translations that are highly regarded as being amongst the best/most accurate of certain books.  You can have a correct translation where the words used are technically accurate, but a lot of the meaning is lost, or where the meaning is mostly preserved even if some words are not the best choices.  The problem with both of those is there will be some things missing, and they are merely a best effort attempt.

Regardless of how a religious text says people should act, the people that read it will still make their own choices.  You can have things that preach love and taking care of others, including through self-sacrifice, and still have the "followers" torturing and slaughtering others in massive numbers.

The problem is not religious texts and doctrine, it is organized religion, or organized anything really.  This allows even a small idea to grow, and for even those that don't believe or agree with something to be forced to become a part of a system that can cause large scale death, destruction, opression, and so on.  A single person will usually have a limited impact, but with many people...well, just look at history.  Remember, good ideas of any sort can have a vary bad outcome (beware the Good Idea Fairy).  It is better not to attack, or praise, others because of their beliefs, opinions, etc., or their (apparent to you) similarity to another group, but on what they do as an individual.

So, yes, read it yourselves.
I've read different translations of the mean parts and they all said the same which is no wonder since the quran is pretty clear and uses less metaphors than some other religious texts, it's basically full of direct orders.

Since it is written in a much more advanced language than the ancient jewish/christian texts, it's easier to translate anyway.

A classmate of my ex was forced to go to "quran-school" by her family here in Germany and they watched videos where young girls got stoned to death for stuff that is completely normal around here - the preacher said it's rightfully deserved, look what happens, if... blabla and the young guys cheered. She also said, that the translations are mostly quite precise, those mean orders for murdering non-believers and proselytizing the world are the same in the original language.

Look up those parts for example:

"Sūra 2, Āya 190-193"

"Sūra 2, Āya 216-217"


"Sūra 2, Āya 223"


"Sūra 3, Āya 86-91"


"Sūra 4, Āya 34"


"Sūra 4, Āya 89"


"Sūra 5, Āya 38"


"Sūra 8, Āya 12"


"Sūra 8, Āya 17"

"Sūra 8, Āya 39"


"Sūra 9, Āya 5"


"Sūra 9, Āya 14"


"Sūra 9, Āya 29"


"Sūra 9, Āya 111"


"Sūra 9, Āya 113"


"Sūra 16, Āya 10"


"Sūra 17, Āya 33"


"Sūra 24, Āya 2"


"Sūra 24, Āya 62"


"Sūra 33, Āya 61"


"Sūra 40, Āya 10"


"Sūra 41, Āya 24"


"Sūra 44, Āya 16"


"Sūra 47, Āya 4"


"Sūra 48, Āya 20"


"Sūra 48, Āya 29"


"Sūra 60, Āya 1"


"Sūra 61, Āya 4"


"Sūra 61, Āya 9"


"Sūra 98, Āya 6"


Getting to know if muslims actually agree with those orders by their holy prophet is what I try to do and no muslim (aside from girls that want to become apostates but fear for their lives) I ever encountered distanced himself from them, most likely because everything Mohammad said is holy and not to be questioned, but what do I know, I'm just some lowly infidel.
 
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It only takes one crazy person to steal a hydrogen bomb and then WW3 will begin.
challenge_accepted_barney_5619.jpg
 
I've read different translations of the mean parts and they all said the same which is no wonder since the quran is pretty clear and uses less metaphors than some other religious texts, it's basically full of direct orders.

Since it is written in a much more advanced language than the ancient jewish/christian texts, it's easier to translate anyway.

A classmate of my ex was forced to go to "quran-school" by her family here in Germany and they watched videos where young girls got stoned to death for stuff that is completely normal around here - the preacher said it's rightfully deserved, look what happens, if... blabla and the young guys cheered. She also said, that the translations are mostly quite precise, those mean orders for murdering non-believers and proselytizing the world are the same in the original language.

(...)


Getting to know if muslims actually agree with those statements is what I try to do and no muslim (aside from girls that want to become apostates but fear for their lives) I ever encountered distanced himself from them, most likely because everything Mohammad said is holy and not to be questioned, but what do I know, I'm just some lowly infidel.
I am very familiar with it, and I understand that it uses simplified Arabic to be more clear.  If you are trying to use a book as a reason to sling hate at the people that believe in some or all of what is written in that book you are no better than the people that would try to harm you because of what the book says.  Furthermore, some of the things I believe and think should happen are far worse than anything in the Quran.  If you need to hate someone without getting to know them or observing them as an individual, hate me.

Again, not everyone will feel that everything they read in their religious texts is right or justified.  Each person can make their own judgement calls on what they will do in a given situation.  Just because a religious leader, or anyone, says to do something does not mean those that hear/read the words will do it.  I have seen and had much worse directed at me from a larger percentage of the christians I have encountered in the mostly christian areas I have lived, in the name of "love" and out of concern for my soul, than mistreatment from the Muslims I have known and worked with (quite a few).  Give me a typical Muslim over a typical christian in the bible belt any day.  In the end it is what they actually do that matters most.
 
I am very familiar with it, and I understand that it uses simplified Arabic to be more clear.  If you are trying to use a book as a reason to sling hate at the people that believe in some or all of what is written in that book you are no better than the people that would try to harm you because of what the book says.  Furthermore, some of the things I believe and think should happen are far worse than anything in the Quran.  If you need to hate someone without getting to know them or observing them as an individual, hate me.

Again, not everyone will feel that everything they read in their religious texts is right or justified.  Each person can make their own judgement calls on what they will do in a given situation.  Just because a religious leader, or anyone, says to do something does not mean those that hear/read the words will do it.  I have seen and had much worse directed at me from a larger percentage of the christians I have encountered in the mostly christian areas I have lived, in the name of "love" and out of concern for my soul, than mistreatment from the Muslims I have known and worked with (quite a few).  Give me a typical Muslim over a typical christian in the bible belt any day.  In the end it is what they actually do that matters most.
..and here comes the usual jump to christianity, the old deflection strategy that everyone copies on this topic. This mantra doesn't make any sense and as always I say, that I'd never defend christianity since I'm an apostate myself, partly because of christian violence indeed. The topic christianity is completely invalid in this discussion and apologizing something bad by saying something else is bad too won't make this world a better place for sure.

So you say, that neo-nazi belief is not so bad because there are surely things in "Mein Kampf" that the followers don't aggree with? Everything else would be a double standard.

There may be nice nazis too, but this doesn't make their belief any better or less dangerous. You just happen to know nice muslims instead and can't see this objective anymore because of this like so many others too, which is part of the strategy.

Besides: No, muslims are not allowed to make their own judgements, that's the whole point.

I'm no buddhist, but since everyone seems so eager to compare religions for some nonsensical reason: It is told for example, that Siddharta Gautama (Buddha) said, that you should always think for yourself and use your reason and heart to check if what the ones above you say is right. Some of the quotes I mentioned above say exactly the opposite in really evil regards, maybe at some point people will have the courage to check them instead of just undeservedly sorting me into the category "haters" and ignore every argument in order to not be endangered of falling into this category themselves after actually checking the facts.

I don't hate muslims, hate is always unjust. I pity them for not being able to completely free themselves from a fascist and misogynist belief system and I pity western people for apologizing such a system (and ignoring the horrible tragedies it causes on a daily basis) if it happens to not be made by very brightly colored people and is not about skin color - which is racist, by the way.
 
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I am very familiar with it, and I understand that it uses simplified Arabic to be more clear.  If you are trying to use a book as a reason to sling hate at the people that believe in some or all of what is written in that book you are no better than the people that would try to harm you because of what the book says.  Furthermore, some of the things I believe and think should happen are far worse than anything in the Quran.  If you need to hate someone without getting to know them or observing them as an individual, hate me.

Again, not everyone will feel that everything they read in their religious texts is right or justified.  Each person can make their own judgement calls on what they will do in a given situation.  Just because a religious leader, or anyone, says to do something does not mean those that hear/read the words will do it.  I have seen and had much worse directed at me from a larger percentage of the christians I have encountered in the mostly christian areas I have lived, in the name of "love" and out of concern for my soul, than mistreatment from the Muslims I have known and worked with (quite a few).  Give me a typical Muslim over a typical christian in the bible belt any day.  In the end it is what they actually do that matters most.
..and here comes the usual jump to christianity, the old deflection strategy that everyone copies on this topic. This mantra doesn't make any sense and as always I say, that I'd never defend christianity since I'm an apostate myself, partly because of christian violence indeed. The topic christianity is completely invalid in this discussion
Wrong. It is completely relevant.  You can't say "look how evil and terrible the people of this religion are" without having something to compare them to.  By saying such a thing, it is quite possible that you are doing the same sort of thing those you are speaking out against, and the unspoken, but seemingly strongly hinted at, call to action is not to nice either.  You will always have assholes, and the christians I mentioned have had a much larger percentage of them that have treated me and others badly in public (and I am less of an outsider to them).

 and apologizing something bad by saying something else is bad too won't make this world a better place for sure.
I didn't apologize for anything.  I said judge individuals as individuals instead of assuming that all people of a faith will be exactly the same.  Christians have a much greater history of violence and opression, so if you feel the need to attack a group they make just as much sense.  Slinging hate collectively at all people who have been raised in a specific religious environment or culture will also not make the world a better place, but it is obvious that is not what you are trying to do, so why even mention it?

So you say, that neo-nazi belief is not so bad because there are surely things in "Mein Kampf" that the followers don't aggree with? Everything else would be a double standard.
I said nothing of the sort, but nice try.  If you want to go this direction the better way to look at it is that not all Germans, back when Hitler and friends were in power, believed in all (or any) of what was being said or done.  Plenty of people tried to do what you are doing toward all Germans back then.  What I have already said is that at least some people may find themselves forced into a position where they have to do or say things they disagree with (but let me guess, you think these people should allow themselves, and their friends and families to be tortured and killed instead of refusing to play along until they can get out of that situation?).

There may be nice nazis too, but this doesn't make their belief any better or less dangerous. You just happen to know nice muslims instead and can't see this objective anymore because of this like so many others too, which is part of the strategy.

Besides: No, muslims are not allowed to make their own judgements, that's the whole point.
Ah, yes, people are completely incapable of being able to think for themselves.  I always forget that.  There has never been anyone that has been anyone that has been in the minority as far as opinions or beliefs in the place they live, or been a part of the silent majority that have everything controlled by the vocal minority in power.  Come on, I know you know better than to believe that.

I'm no buddhist, but since everyone seems so eager to compare religions for some nonsensical reason:
It looks to me like I was the only one comparing religions.  I suppose I could be mistaken.  If you will provide me the method you are using to measure how bad a religion or its followers are without comparing it to something else, maybe I can better understand what you are getting at.  Otherwise, it seems you have no argument, and are just attacking those that are different from you.  It is nonsense, though, so what do I know.  (I know that I prefer nonsense to most human logic, but again, my declared beliefs are far worse than what you are arguing against.)

It is told for example, that Siddharta Gautama (Buddha) said, that you should always think for yourself and use your reason and heart to check if what the ones above you say is right. Some of the quotes I mentioned above say exactly the opposite in really evil regards, maybe at some point people will have the courage to check them instead of just undeservedly sorting me into the category "haters" and ignore every argument in order to not be endangered of falling into this category themselves after actually checking the facts.
So what is your point?  A person that has considered what is happening or being said and responded in the way they think is right is making a better choice than someone who has been opressed or been forced under a systematic approach used to control people and eliminate them if they step out of line?  It is the people thinking for themselves that make these things happen.  If you are suggesting I am ignoring what you are saying, I am not.  If you think I am trying to avoid being labelled a hater, I don't care what labels people apply to me, however I can assure you I am very hateful, but more on that in a minute.



I don't hate muslims
Then you should probably reconsider how you say things.

hate is always unjust. I pity them for not being able to completely free themselves from a fascist and misogynist belief system and I pity western people for apologizing such a system (and ignoring the horrible tragedies it causes on a daily basis) if it happens to not be made by very brightly colored people and is not about skin color - which is racist, by the way.
Hate is unjust in your opinion.  You can't use your moral beliefs to judge the beliefs and feelings of others.  Despite what you claim, your words and actions resemble hate.  We won't get into my background, which isn't really important, although it seems you may be trying to make reference to it.  Why would you pity others for things they are completely content with?  Those you should pity, if any (it might be more useful to actually try to help them), are the ones that want things to be different.  Race has nothing to do with beliefs.

In case you have forgotten, I think the human population should be greatly reduced.  I do hate humans collectively.  I acknowledge that individuals have merit, however even most of those that try to make things better in a way that I feel is admirable are still a part of what I see as a very big problem.  There are very few that are truly living in such a way that I feel has little negative impact on those we share the planet with.
 
If you want to go this direction the better way to look at it is that not all Germans, back when Hitler and friends were in power, believed in all (or any) of what was being said or done.  Plenty of people tried to do what you are doing toward all Germans back then.  What I have already said is that at least some people may find themselves forced into a position where they have to do or say things they disagree with (but let me guess, you think these people should allow themselves, and their friends and families to be tortured and killed instead of refusing to play along until they can get out of that situation?).
And all those people playing along are the ones making ISIS (which to me are just overly consistent muslims that take Mohammed's orders dangerously serious) possible.

Having an islamic state spread over the whole planet by any means necessary (and therefore "peace" by unification and obedience) is the declared goal of this whole system after all and it baffles me that nobody seems to have a problem with this.

I never played along anywhere and maybe would have died in late 30s Germany as well as in an islamic country, my life was endangered even around here sometimes because I don't play along with such bollocks, that's why I have great respect for people that try to free themselves from this stuff. Ex-muslims are heroes to me, since I know the danger those apostates are hovering in. I always wonder how people can ignore all the oppressed, tortured, mutilated (acid attack for not wearing hijab for example) and murdered women.

Besides: No, muslims are not allowed to make their own judgements, that's the whole point.
Ah, yes, people are completely incapable of being able to think for themselves.  I always forget that.  There has never been anyone that has been anyone that has been in the minority as far as opinions or beliefs in the place they live, or been a part of the silent majority that have everything controlled by the vocal minority in power.  Come on, I know you know better than to believe that.
oh-please.gif


That's not even near to what I wrote in your quote or anywhere else. I wrote, that they are not allowed to think for themselves according to their dead leader.

The real danger of Islam doesn't even lie in the hateful orders written in the Quran, but in the inconsistency of the followers making this system survive and even thrive. This inconsisteny is in many cases due to circumstances (not many chances to win a jihad against infidels if they are the majority around you) and partly because of ignorance to what they actually are supposed to believe in and what people stand for by calling themselves muslims. I know people with muslim families which would never consider themselves as muslims although they know better than to speak out against it because of the underlying oppression.

I don't know how you react to people that call themselves scientologists or national socialists of course, if you'd defend those and their belief as well, you are free of the bigotry I'm starting to sense here and wouldn't have expected.

It looks to me like I was the only one comparing religions.  I suppose I could be mistaken.  If you will provide me the method you are using to measure how bad a religion or its followers are without comparing it to something else, maybe I can better understand what you are getting at.  Otherwise, it seems you have no argument, and are just attacking those that are different from you.  It is nonsense, though, so what do I know.  (I know that I prefer nonsense to most human logic, but again, my declared beliefs are far worse than what you are arguing against.)
I'm reading the "but christianity isn't perfect too"-argument in every single discussion about islam by apologetics, there never has been a single one without it and it always comes up by the pro-islam side while most of the other side isn't even supporting christianity.

Sure, I can tell you my method. I'm measuring the danger of religions by looking at their foundation (holy scripture) and counting the encouragements for violence, misogyny and disrespect for people with other beliefs in it as some examples.

I don't hate muslims
Then you should probably reconsider how you say things.
So I'm not allowed to speak out against Islam because muslims could be offended and I'm a hater if I simply oppose it, what else is new? I see your opinion about freedom of thought and speech has already been shriveled in this regard. :(

Why are people making exceptions for Islam when I could oppose about any nation, organisation, company or other religion without such reactions?

I don't really care for the followers in what I have written here, I'm talking about the core of it all which is rotten and I can't hate it since it's just shit from very violent times, I can't accept though, that people are still keeping this violent and disrespectful stuff alive.

Sadly religions like Jainism which are based on not being a burden to anyone (not only humans) aren't as succesful, since they get stomped out by the more aggressive ones. Do you know what happened with them when Pakistan was founded? Nothing nice.

How would I be allowed by you to criticize Islam without being considered a hater? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion about that.

Despite what you claim, your words and actions resemble hate.
Which words? Did I use slurs? I'm just talking about what's actually written in the Quran here and that I can't believe that people are mad enough to support it.

Which actions? Do you see me burning down mosques? I think you have just put me into the haters drawer to make life easier and since you usually never do this in any other regard (which I always liked) and are clearly making exceptions here, there has to have been some kind of subtle indocrination happening.

In case you have forgotten, I think the human population should be greatly reduced.  I do hate humans collectively.  I acknowledge that individuals have merit, however even most of those that try to make things better in a way that I feel is admirable are still a part of what I see as a very big problem.  There are very few that are truly living in such a way that I feel has little negative impact on those we share the planet with.
No, I haven't forgotten. But if you claim to hate humans equally, you shouldn't make exceptions for islam when it comes to criticizing core aspects of it that are clearly written down and every follower is supposed to follow (which they don't in most cases of course, but this has many reasons).
 
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partial reply message sent.

My problem is that you are approaching a line that seems very close to calling for others to attack, through words and actions, or, at the very least oppress the freedom and rights, of individual Muslims.  My issue is not one of people being offended.  You have declared how much power words have yourself, and the next step from what you have already said seems to be "everyone needs to fight the Muslim threat".  Are you seeing now why I have a problem with how you are saying what you are saying?  I agree, Islam is pretty fucked up.  So are most religions.  The whole idea of religions is fucked, and what once may have been valuable (which I don't think it was with most of the major religions) is now a great big problem.  I also don't think it is right to say that people can't believe as they wish.  To put it clearly, your freedom to think and speak ends, in my opinion, when it interferes with the safety and freedom of others.  This also applies to Muslims, or any other group or individual.  You cannot speak out about, and try to end, oppression by oppressing others, especially when not all of those that you would oppress are directly involved with, or agree with what the others are doing.  If you can't see why this is a problem, sorry. Maybe this will help: Would it be a problem if someone was strongly suggesting that men (or women), or whites (or any race), or Germans (or any nationality), or any religion are a threat that needs to be dealt with?  I am NOT making an exception for Islam.  I am saying that an individual Muslim should be treated just as any other person.  Hate the teachings all you want, but be aware that when you are talking about a religion there are people involved.  Originally, when we were discussing the Quran, we were mostly in agreement.  I threw in a bit about remembering the individual, and agreed with you further on the threat of getting a bunch of people that all agree on something together.
 
Thangs you booth,


Im also happy,


Yesterday, whe went to the hospital, to pick up my other nieche (5) and to bring she home and dit some babysitting wyle whe waitet for the husband of my sister to also come home from the hospital..


My sister is getting fine now, and she can leave the hospital at frieday..


I think the next months are getting quite interesting :)
 
partial reply message sent.

My problem is that you are approaching a line that seems very close to calling for others to attack, through words and actions, or, at the very least oppress the freedom and rights, of individual Muslims.  My issue is not one of people being offended.  You have declared how much power words have yourself, and the next step from what you have already said seems to be "everyone needs to fight the Muslim threat".  Are you seeing now why I have a problem with how you are saying what you are saying?  I agree, Islam is pretty fucked up.  So are most religions.  The whole idea of religions is fucked, and what once may have been valuable (which I don't think it was with most of the major religions) is now a great big problem.  I also don't think it is right to say that people can't believe as they wish.  To put it clearly, your freedom to think and speak ends, in my opinion, when it interferes with the safety and freedom of others.  This also applies to Muslims, or any other group or individual.  You cannot speak out about, and try to end, oppression by oppressing others, especially when not all of those that you would oppress are directly involved with, or agree with what the others are doing.  If you can't see why this is a problem, sorry. Maybe this will help: Would it be a problem if someone was strongly suggesting that men (or women), or whites (or any race), or Germans (or any nationality), or any religion are a threat that needs to be dealt with?  I am NOT making an exception for Islam.  I am saying that an individual Muslim should be treated just as any other person.  Hate the teachings all you want, but be aware that when you are talking about a religion there are people involved.  Originally, when we were discussing the Quran, we were mostly in agreement.  I threw in a bit about remembering the individual, and agreed with you further on the threat of getting a bunch of people that all agree on something together.
No, I'd not call for violence, not even in words and I'm against the meddling of western culture in the middle east in general but this goes both ways. I want, that my countries constitution as well as the constitution of other European countries is worth more than just the paper and ordering people to hit disobedient women and kill non-believers is illegal around here. Don't get me wrong, I'm critisizing all of the cults of Abraham, but this one is the most dangerous around here at the moment and it's only natural to focus on the more immediate problems and too regular there are murders in the west strongly related to this cult and one big reason for this is the book which indeed is more directly calling out for violence than the others (which doesn't make the others good of course).

I was talking about Islam and you were talking about muslims and the human side which includes the usual bigotry of saying one thing and doing the other which is a good thing in this case since nobody wants them to do everything that is written as a holy duty, but some people do and they are not even doing anything wrong according to this book so I want to raise awareness, that those orders written in there are actually illegal in our nations and every other sect with a similar system would be shut down around here instead of supporting it, but only if it was smaller of course. It's all about exceptions for big lobbies in the end, just like in the economy.

Im i on the right place for random toughts??


Since yesterday evening, my second niche was born :)
Very nice. I haven't seen my two nieches and my nephew for 7 years due to their control freak father (my brother) who actually has driven the mother of the three out of the family and into multiple suicide attemps which screwed her life even more. :(
 
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I opted to have a missed parcel redelivered to a different address than the original delivery address recently. The post office ended up completely ignoring my instructions and tried to redeliver the parcel to the original delivery address where of course there was no one in. #FFS
 
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