So...Will there ever be a Pandora 2?

So...Will there ever be a Pandora 2?


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If there ever is a successor to the Pandora. I think it should support the most popular Indie developer platforms out there, like Unity, and have tools that allow true open development, allowing developers to use whatever language they want, like Java, C#, Objective-C *spit*, Python, Ruby et al. not be so squarely focussed on C/C++.
Don't know what you mean by "squarely focused on C/C++". The only thing on that list that doesn't work right this very instant is Unity, and that's only because it's closed source and as a result will probably never be able to export to Pandora.
 
If there ever is a successor to the Pandora. I think it should support the most popular Indie developer platforms out there, like Unity, and have tools that allow true open development, allowing developers to use whatever language they want, like Java, C#, Objective-C *spit*, Python, Ruby et al. not be so squarely focussed on C/C++.
Don't know what you mean by "squarely focused on C/C++". The only thing on that list that doesn't work right this very instant is Unity, and that's only because it's closed source and as a result will probably never be able to export to Pandora.
What I mean is This. All the development links are to C/C++ resources, almost exclusively Linux toolchains, and little support for anything else.
 
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The problem with Java, C# and so on is that they tend to be quite slow and memory hungry. With the specs of the current pandora, you just can't do that much in terms of game complexity with those languages.

Pygame is fully supported (minus OpenGL, but _aegis_ libGL could change that.)

You could probably use Objective C too. It's just that no-one has bothered.
 
If there ever is a successor to the Pandora. I think it should support the most popular Indie developer platforms out there, like Unity, and have tools that allow true open development, allowing developers to use whatever language they want, like Java, C#, Objective-C *spit*, Python, Ruby et al. not be so squarely focussed on C/C++.
Don't know what you mean by "squarely focused on C/C++". The only thing on that list that doesn't work right this very instant is Unity, and that's only because it's closed source and as a result will probably never be able to export to Pandora.
What I mean is This. All the development links are to C/C++ resources, almost exclusively Linux toolchains, and little support for anything else.
If you want to create a Windows or MacOS based crosscompiler environment feel free. Is it any surprise that the people interested in porting programs to a Linux based handheld would also use Linux on their desktop?


The pandora can handle numerous types languages, targeting the Pandora really isn't much different than targeting a regular desktop flavor of Linux.. Just requires packaging it in a PND and there are tools for that in Linux and Windows.
 
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If there ever is a successor to the Pandora. I think it should support the most popular Indie developer platforms out there, like Unity, and have tools that allow true open development, allowing developers to use whatever language they want, like Java, C#, Objective-C *spit*, Python, Ruby et al. not be so squarely focussed on C/C++.
Don't know what you mean by "squarely focused on C/C++". The only thing on that list that doesn't work right this very instant is Unity, and that's only because it's closed source and as a result will probably never be able to export to Pandora.
What I mean is This. All the development links are to C/C++ resources, almost exclusively Linux toolchains, and little support for anything else.
Looks like somebody doesn't understand what a programming language really is.. c/c++ and all of that fun stuff is supported low level code.

high level languages like python are likely installed in on the pandora. Perl is installed. Rudyvm could be installed maybe. 

The whole damn point of the Pandora project is that the full linux install shouldn't really limit you.

Bottom line.. the only people who are going to complain about the languages are people who don't know how to code.
 
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If there ever is a successor to the Pandora. I think it should support the most popular Indie developer platforms out there, like Unity, and have tools that allow true open development, allowing developers to use whatever language they want, like Java, C#, Objective-C *spit*, Python, Ruby et al. not be so squarely focussed on C/C++.
Don't know what you mean by "squarely focused on C/C++". The only thing on that list that doesn't work right this very instant is Unity, and that's only because it's closed source and as a result will probably never be able to export to Pandora.
What I mean is This. All the development links are to C/C++ resources, almost exclusively Linux toolchains, and little support for anything else.
Looks like somebody doesn't understand what a programming language really is.. c/c++ and all of that fun stuff is supported low level code.

high level languages like python are likely installed in on the pandora. Perl is installed. Rudyvm could be installed maybe. 

The whole damn point of the Pandora project is that the full linux install shouldn't really limit you.

Bottom line.. the only people who are going to complain about the languages are people who don't know how to code.
Because it can't be anything to do with preference, can it? I can code in C++, but maybe I want to use a higher level language because they are easier, because I want something that won't drag all my free time to do small tasks that have been implemented hundreds of times by people with more time than I do. Maybe I want to just fire up an IDE on my machine and start a new project without having to hack around to get a toolchain that works with Windows. That's what drove me away from this place the first time, the the fucking elitism, all this "Well know better, even though I don't having a fucking clue what your experience as a programmer is"
 
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As said before: you can use any of the high level languages you like.


You just might need to make them work on the Pandora first if they don't come preinstalled and bundle them with the pnd.


Everything is possible. It's opensource...


If you want closed source ides like unity, you need to ask the developers if they want to target the Pandora or code with them and use the Android port on the Pandora to play them.


Also on a platform like Pandora, stuff like mono or java might have a lot of overhead and might be slow as they are not as close to the hardware.


But it is and will be your choice. Even on a P2.
 
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What I mean is This. All the development links are to C/C++ resources, almost exclusively Linux toolchains, and little support for anything else.
Well yeah. C/C++ requires no small amount of effort to make it work, a tutorial was practically required at the time if you wanted to do any coding. Nothing else you've mentioned required the same amount of effort: perl comes pre-installed, Java just needs the PND, ruby and mono and many other high level languages are one simply "opkg install" away, and in each of those cases writing the program on your desktop and running it on your Pandora is trivial. There was a focus on C/C++ and not anything else because C/C++ needed the focus while most of the rest didn't. This isn't some elitist conspiracy, it's the simple truth: C/C++ is hard, perl and java and ruby and C# are easy. Thanks to the Code::Blocks PND, that thread you linked to is now completely moot and in the future C/C++ will be just as easy as any other language to work with on the Pandora and get the same level of focus. The other languages won't get more focus, C++ will simply get less because a complicated setup is no longer required.
 
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Look out, here comes a wall of text ;-)

@Cameleon:

- Unity is a development platform that can target many architectures. Even though it's closed source, it might be helpful to work together with them to create a universal module that would allow people to easily port (mostly games) to the OpenPandora.

Let's make the OpenPandora / next system a platform that can rival the Ouya when it comes to stretch goal/ starting point compatibility on KickStarter. Now if only the first Days of Dawn KS had succeded, we would have a showcase to see the real potential of the Pandora family.

Most Unity-based games I see on KickStarter target high resolutions and power graphics engines, but some of them use SNES like graphic resolutions. Those games would be perfect to port to the present generation Pandora, the new unit should imho. have higher resolution than that, but still be able to display the 640x480 resolution (Old skool DOS) and the SD PAL/ NTSC resolution beautifully.

About the name:

Drakenbox would certainly attract lots of Japanese customers, as they seem to have a thing for German names.

I also like Dragonscale and Myriad.

Dragonscale because it implies a compact unit and honours the nickname EvilDragon.

Myriad is also quite fitting and has the advantage that it is not tied to a single (if crucially important for now) team member. It also implies versatility which is always a good thing.

Some things I'd definitely want to see improved on the next device:

- Please provide a proper resistive touchscreen instead of the present scratchscreen.

 The lack of reponsiveness is grating to say the least, it somehow feels really rough. Having a silicone tip on the stylus, just like with the alternative styli for the Nintendo DSi, would alleviate the scratching problem

- The present keyboard is OK for a few key presses now and then, but I find it lacking to code on the go, even a simple bash script.because of the force needed and the unidirectional quality of the button press. I hope that the new iCP keyboard will be sufficient, but it really needs more keys.

- The nubs work quite well, but they should have a state that can be toggled on and off that would turn them into a clicky, preferably 8-directional control that is suitable to emulate button presses.

- The screen brightness/ gamma could do with some improvement as well. This is especially obvious when playing old Atari 2600 games that tend to use dark purple on black... :-/

- Better Wifi, preferably a chip that can do 802.1 a, b, g, n, ac (high speed transfer speeds coupled with low power consumption). Please provide antennae that can do 2.4GHz as well as 5GHz. The 2.4GHz band is stuffed already.

Case/ Form-factor related wishes:

Ruggedness is always a good thing for a device on the go. A water-resistant/ scratch-proof design would be highly desirable.

Dual shoulder buttons would certainly be nice, but the current solution for the R2/ L2 on the PS1 emu that uses the p and q buttons for those buttons works quite well for now (maybe not with really hectic fighter-games)

I'd like to keep at least one of the SD-card full-sized, because with the the proper adapter, 3 sizes of SD-card will fit in it (Normal, Mini and Micro). Definitely make them fully compatible with SDXC and preferably intenally connected trhough USB3/ MicroSATA6G

Internal Hardware related wishes:

- I like the idea of a digital gyroscope-like thingy, because 1) It provides for even more versatility in the controls, 2) it makes for more complete Android compatibility. 3) Those things are quite cheap and small.

- I hope that by the time the new system is in active development, there will be a solution that makes the NAND obsolete, so that customers can insert their own memory medium to run the OS from that is at least as fast as the current NAND solution, but certainly bigger..

- I hope for true OpenGL 2.1 support with fallback to OpenGL/ ES

Extra Emulation:

- Nintendo DS (including those games using the NDS, not the 3DS, 3D-engine).

- Dreamcast

- Gamecube

- Pentium I-II type based X86-computer with the ability to run Win95/ Win98SE complete with games from that era using Qemu or similar solutions.

Ideally, but I can dream can't I?:

- PS2

- Sega Saturn

Both systems above have complex 3+ multi-processor structures that makes them hard to emulate. The PS2 is more likely though, because it already has a decent multi-platform emulator.
 
If we could port unity games... I would buy the P2 the second I could.
 
All very good suggestions....but there has to be an homage to the original.  Respect the beginning, and love where it's going.  It could be Pandora2 or Pandoragain, or symbolic of the processor of the day (PandARM15), who knows? - I'm assuming that we're at least a year or two off of this undertaking.  We need to sell a lot more current Pandoras to get us out of the black at any rate.  I hope that this newest "survey" will tell us how close we are to completing this preorder mess....and then it'd be nice for the investors/ED to see at least a small profit BEFORE they embark on a new project.

I'd also like to see colored cases - maybe "blue" for Hope, and "red" for a Dragon and various themed Pandora 2's....or even if sales drop off for the current Gigahertz models, why not spraypaint various cases before assembly?  Could fetch a few more dollars.

I also liked Grench's idea of an incremental approach to the potential "P2".  Some things have been fine-tuned enough, IMO.  The case is pretty solid now, the battery cover is a bit iffy...the battery slides around on one of it's axis...but I fixed that with wedges of paper.  Once I got my Pandora, I found out that if I picked it up or felt the "underneath" of the case (the battery cover), my Pandora would reset.  It was goofy, and I can't believe that no one noticed that, but I took it all in stride.  I've been reading these forums for a few years so I just knew what to do, but people unaccustomed to the idiosyncrasies of this device must get frustrated.  So, improve upon what we have, but don't spend too much money on reinventing the wheel.

It's going to depend a LOT on whether the ICP2 will be able to be used (or be useful)....that's a wildcard that will solve half of our problems I think.  Good luck to Craig on that one....and hopefully he'll make a good return on it and be in a better position and frame of mind to see future endeavors through.  I'm much more realistic that the keyboard and PCB will be used because of Mr. Weston having designed it.  He's a true genius.
 
Look out, here comes a wall of text ;-)

@Cameleon:

- Unity is a development platform that can target many architectures. Even though it's closed source, it might be helpful to work together with them to create a universal module that would allow people to easily port (mostly games) to the OpenPandora.

Let's make the OpenPandora / next system a platform that can rival the Ouya when it comes to stretch goal/ starting point compatibility on KickStarter. Now if only the first Days of Dawn KS had succeded, we would have a showcase to see the real potential of the Pandora family.

Most Unity-based games I see on KickStarter target high resolutions and power graphics engines, but some of them use SNES like graphic resolutions. Those games would be perfect to port to the present generation Pandora, the new unit should imho. have higher resolution than that, but still be able to display the 640x480 resolution (Old skool DOS) and the SD PAL/ NTSC resolution beautifully.

About the name:

Drakenbox would certainly attract lots of Japanese customers, as they seem to have a thing for German names.

I also like Dragonscale and Myriad.

Dragonscale because it implies a compact unit and honours the nickname EvilDragon.

Myriad is also quite fitting and has the advantage that it is not tied to a single (if crucially important for now) team member. It also implies versatility which is always a good thing.

Some things I'd definitely want to see improved on the next device:

- Please provide a proper resistive touchscreen instead of the present scratchscreen.

 The lack of reponsiveness is grating to say the least, it somehow feels really rough. Having a silicone tip on the stylus, just like with the alternative styli for the Nintendo DSi, would alleviate the scratching problem

- The present keyboard is OK for a few key presses now and then, but I find it lacking to code on the go, even a simple bash script.because of the force needed and the unidirectional quality of the button press. I hope that the new iCP keyboard will be sufficient, but it really needs more keys.

- The nubs work quite well, but they should have a state that can be toggled on and off that would turn them into a clicky, preferably 8-directional control that is suitable to emulate button presses.

- The screen brightness/ gamma could do with some improvement as well. This is especially obvious when playing old Atari 2600 games that tend to use dark purple on black... :-/

- Better Wifi, preferably a chip that can do 802.1 a, b, g, n, ac (high speed transfer speeds coupled with low power consumption). Please provide antennae that can do 2.4GHz as well as 5GHz. The 2.4GHz band is stuffed already.

Case/ Form-factor related wishes:

Ruggedness is always a good thing for a device on the go. A water-resistant/ scratch-proof design would be highly desirable.

Dual shoulder buttons would certainly be nice, but the current solution for the R2/ L2 on the PS1 emu that uses the p and q buttons for those buttons works quite well for now (maybe not with really hectic fighter-games)

I'd like to keep at least one of the SD-card full-sized, because with the the proper adapter, 3 sizes of SD-card will fit in it (Normal, Mini and Micro). Definitely make them fully compatible with SDXC and preferably intenally connected trhough USB3/ MicroSATA6G

Internal Hardware related wishes:

- I like the idea of a digital gyroscope-like thingy, because 1) It provides for even more versatility in the controls, 2) it makes for more complete Android compatibility. 3) Those things are quite cheap and small.

- I hope that by the time the new system is in active development, there will be a solution that makes the NAND obsolete, so that customers can insert their own memory medium to run the OS from that is at least as fast as the current NAND solution, but certainly bigger..

- I hope for true OpenGL 2.1 support with fallback to OpenGL/ ES

Extra Emulation:

- Nintendo DS (including those games using the NDS, not the 3DS, 3D-engine).

- Dreamcast

- Gamecube

- Pentium I-II type based X86-computer with the ability to run Win95/ Win98SE complete with games from that era using Qemu or similar solutions.

Ideally, but I can dream can't I?:

- PS2

- Sega Saturn

Both systems above have complex 3+ multi-processor structures that makes them hard to emulate. The PS2 is more likely though, because it already has a decent multi-platform emulator.
Dreamcast is a definite possibility considering we had early early pre-alpha unoptimized build of NullDC dreamcast emulator that ran surprisingly well 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vXJ0WtWGRLE?feature=oembed
 
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The video seems to be impressive, is it a CC, a rebirth or a giga pandora? Is it overclocked? From the date (2009) I would say it is a classic unit. The dream cast emulator did not use the recompiler from ARI, did it? Wikipedia says the hardware of the PSP is probably  (educated guess) more powerful then the Dreamcast Hardware. The gpu of the dreamcast is a predecessor of the gpu in the Pandora. It used directX, so it has 3D calls you can pass with some modifications to the gpu, instead of using expensive shaders like the N64 gpu does to emulate the N64 graphic co prozessor. Wine has done some work to translater directX to opengl.

The only problem is that the dreamcast got 8MB video, the PSP 2 MB. I am not sure how memory access will perform, if there is no real video ram, just caches. Was the emulator cpu or gpu bound?
 
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The video seems to be impressive, is it a CC, a rebirth or a giga pandora? Is it overclocked? From the date (2009) I would say it is a classic unit. The dream cast emulator did not use the recompiler from ARI, did it? Wikipedia says the hardware of the PSP is probably  (educated guess) more powerful then the Dreamcast Hardware. The gpu of the dreamcast is a predecessor of the gpu in the Pandora. It used directX, so it has 3D calls you can pass with some modifications to the gpu, instead of using expensive shaders like the N64 gpu does to emulate the N64 graphic co prozessor. Wine has done some work to translater directX to opengl.

The only problem is that the dreamcast got 8MB video, the PSP 2 MB. I am not sure how memory access will perform, if there is no real video ram, just caches. Was the emulator cpu or gpu bound?
That is a preproduction pandora unit with the original specs, Might even have 128mb of ram instead of the 256mb that came standard on the first production units (cc units). Not overclocked my knowledge.  It was basically a port of a NullDC version he had running on the beagleboard 
 
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